St Paul Station

[DakotaBill]

I was wondering about how secure parking is at the Minneapolis St Paul station. Will be parking for about a week. Any experiences to relate. Thanks...Bill A

 

[guest]

I have parked there twice for several days each time with no problems at all. It was well lit, wide open parking lot, in the middle of an industrial park so not too likely to see much crime. I got a parking pass (free) from the ticket counter inside the station so that they know the cars parked there are for Amtrak passengers.

 

[Ispolkom]

I have parked there twice for several days each time with no problems at all. It was well lit, wide open parking lot, in the middle of an industrial park so not too likely to see much crime. I got a parking pass (free) from the ticket counter inside the station so that they know the cars parked there are for Amtrak passengers.

I've had exactly the same experience. I've parked there half a dozen times for several days each time, with no problem. The one problem I've had is finding a place to park, but since they've expanded the parking area, that might not be as much a problem.

 

[Cascadia]

I've been meaning to ask about the St. Paul station so I hope it's okay if I tack my question onto this thread

Is the St. Paul station served by any kind of public transportation, I suppose just taxicabs? It's in the middle of nowhere, I wish it was more accessibly located, I suppose they felt they should serve both cities so they put it in the middle of the two, thereby making it inconvenient for both. Would be really neat to detrain in downtown Minneapolis! That would be fabulous.

I've been thinking about that station because sometimes I think I might move to Fargo someday and then travel to my hometown Minneapolis frequently. I'm pretty far away from my family out here on the West Coast.

 

[dan72]

I've been meaning to ask about the St. Paul station so I hope it's okay if I tack my question onto this thread
Is the St. Paul station served by any kind of public transportation, I suppose just taxicabs? It's in the middle of nowhere, I wish it was more accessibly located, I suppose they felt they should serve both cities so they put it in the middle of the two, thereby making it inconvenient for both. Would be really neat to detrain in downtown Minneapolis! That would be fabulous.

I've been thinking about that station because sometimes I think I might move to Fargo someday and then travel to my hometown Minneapolis frequently. I'm pretty far away from my family out here on the West Coast.

I've parked at the St. Paul station now three times for a week+ and have had no problems. I've not heard of needing a parking permit myself as I've not not used on yet. Probably wouldn't hurt to get one if it is being offered.

The only public transportation is the taxi cabs. Some buses, but have been charter service. And yes, the location is terrible, IMHO. I really hope the plan to move back to the old St. Paul station where there will be buses and LRT moves ahead.

Dan

 

[Ispolkom]

I've been meaning to ask about the St. Paul station so I hope it's okay if I tack my question onto this thread
Is the St. Paul station served by any kind of public transportation, I suppose just taxicabs? It's in the middle of nowhere, I wish it was more accessibly located, I suppose they felt they should serve both cities so they put it in the middle of the two, thereby making it inconvenient for both. Would be really neat to detrain in downtown Minneapolis! That would be fabulous.

Oh, but it would be so much neater to get off the train in downtown St. Paul. At least to this St. Paulan.

You can actually get to Midway Station by public transportation. It's about a 300 yard walk from University Ave, where you can get the high-frequency #16 bus, which runs between the two downtowns. I can't see any problem with taking this bus to meet the east-bound Empire Builder in the morning, but meeting the 10:30 p.m. west-bound EB might put you on the bus with some more colorful clientele.

The Central Corridor light-rail line, if it gets built as planned, doesn't help, as the nearest stop is at Raymond Avenue, almost a mile from the station. I suppose that the intent is that Amtrak will move to St. Paul Union Station.

 

[DakotaBill]

Thanks alot for the replies. You've helped relieve my concerns.

 

[Cascadia]

Oh, but it would be so much neater to get off the train in downtown St. Paul. At least to this St. Paulan.
You can actually get to Midway Station by public transportation. It's about a 300 yard walk from University Ave, where you can get the high-frequency #16 bus, which runs between the two downtowns. I can't see any problem with taking this bus to meet the east-bound Empire Builder in the morning, but meeting the 10:30 p.m. west-bound EB might put you on the bus with some more colorful clientele.

The Central Corridor light-rail line, if it gets built as planned, doesn't help, as the nearest stop is at Raymond Avenue, almost a mile from the station. I suppose that the intent is that Amtrak will move to St. Paul Union Station.

Now see, it should stop in both downtown Minneapolis and downtown St. Paul. Just for us

Thanks for the heads up about the 16 bus. It's been a while since I've been on one but I certainly have ridden them in the past.

I keep reading "Midway Station" as "Midway Stadium"! I've spent a lot more time at the latter than the former! Are you a St. Paul Saints fan?

 

[tubaia]

I've parked at the St. Paul station now three times for a week+ and have had no problems. I've not heard of needing a parking permit myself as I've not not used on yet. Probably wouldn't hurt to get one if it is being offered.
The only public transportation is the taxi cabs. Some buses, but have been charter service. And yes, the location is terrible, IMHO. I really hope the plan to move back to the old St. Paul station where there will be buses and LRT moves ahead.

Dan

I, too, have parked at the St. Paul station a couple of times, for more than a week at a time. Not a single problem. I can't say that I've ever seen or heard of any kind of parking permit there. This must be a double-secret probationary program. h34r:

Getting to Midway from the south is a royal pain in the butt. The first time we went, we took 35E through St. Paul. For some stupid reason, you have to exit 35E onto surface streets to get onto 94, even though the two cross. Then this summer, we tried 35W to 94, which isn't quite as bad, but the traffic can be horrific around the merging of the crosstown, or near downtown.

Where is the old St. Paul station, and how likely is it to move back?

Matt

 

[Ispolkom]

Getting to Midway from the south is a royal pain in the butt. The first time we went, we took 35E through St. Paul. For some stupid reason, you have to exit 35E onto surface streets to get onto 94, even though the two cross. Then this summer, we tried 35W to 94, which isn't quite as bad, but the traffic can be horrific around the merging of the crosstown, or near downtown.
Where is the old St. Paul station, and how likely is it to move back?

Matt

The layout of I-35E is a testament to the relative political power of various St. Paul neighborhoods. There's no way to get from I-35E northbound to I-94 westbound because the good folks of Merriam Park stopped that part of the project.

The old St. Paul station is in Lowertown on 4th St. between Sibley and Wacouta. Since it's supposed to be the terminus of the Central Corridor light rail line, I'd expect that it would become the Amtrak station if and when the Central Corridor is built.

Cascadia reminded me: any railfan who visits the Twin Cities really ought to go to a St. Paul Saints game. I go to 6-10 a year and always have a good time. Okay, the quality of play isn't always so great (I'd say it's about single A quality), but north of the stadium is a double-tracked mainline, while south is a intermodal hub. If you're bored with the game, you'll still have lots of trains to watch.

 

[WICT106]

Some web pages I found regarding Saint Paul Union Depot, affectionately known as SPUD:

Ramsey County's website

USA Rail Guide

 

[Cascadia]

Cascadia reminded me: any railfan who visits the Twin Cities really ought to go to a St. Paul Saints game. I go to 6-10 a year and always have a good time. Okay, the quality of play isn't always so great (I'd say it's about single A quality), but north of the stadium is a double-tracked mainline, while south is a intermodal hub. If you're bored with the game, you'll still have lots of trains to watch.

When you are sitting behind home plate at Midway Stadium, you look out over the field, to the busy, busy rail line with usually about two trains going by during a game. I was always kind of a sucker for waving at the train.

Now, in addition to looking out past the field to the busy rail line, beyond that are the huge (huge!) fairgrounds of the Minnesota State Fair. I have to say it is extremely enjoyable to sit in the stands watching a game and in the near distance see the lights of the rides of the Midway and then later the fireworks. Of course I would sit at the game and wish I was at the horse show, that was my vacation of choice many years, to take a week off work and spend most every night at the English Horse Show taking in the different events but especially the draft horse classes. I would think some railfans would have an appreciation for the power of the six horse and eight horse hitches of draft horses? I love the sound they make when there are about five hitches going around the ring at once in the Hippodrome. One of my all time favorite things and bound to make me homesick if I think about it so I'll stop! That's also a pleasure that used to be cheap but got a lot more expensive in the last few years.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Now see, it should stop in both downtown Minneapolis and downtown St. Paul.

That generally strikes me as a great idea. Does the existing track layout making doing that easy if there were stations next to the track in the right places?

 

[tubaia]

Now see, it should stop in both downtown Minneapolis and downtown St. Paul.

That generally strikes me as a great idea. Does the existing track layout making doing that easy if there were stations next to the track in the right places?

Not that it is the definitive resource, but looking up the area tracks on MS Streets, getting between St. Paul to Minneapolis wouldn't be a problem, but getting back onto the current route west from there would be, aside from backing up back across the Mississippi River.

However, according to the Union Depot website, Amtrak is planned to be moved to Union Depot in 2012, and the Central Corridor light rail will be running in 2014, connecting Union Depot to downtown Minneapolis. Assuming nothing gets delayed, of course; but that never happens.

Matt

 

[Ispolkom]

Now see, it should stop in both downtown Minneapolis and downtown St. Paul.

That generally strikes me as a great idea. Does the existing track layout making doing that easy if there were stations next to the track in the right places?

Not that it is the definitive resource, but looking up the area tracks on MS Streets, getting between St. Paul to Minneapolis wouldn't be a problem, but getting back onto the current route west from there would be, aside from backing up back across the Mississippi River.

However, according to the Union Depot website, Amtrak is planned to be moved to Union Depot in 2012, and the Central Corridor light rail will be running in 2014, connecting Union Depot to downtown Minneapolis. Assuming nothing gets delayed, of course; but that never happens.

Matt

Of course, we ought not assume a great deal of rationality in these decisions, given the great rivalry between Minneapolis and St. Paul. Anything one has, the other has to have. If Minneapolis has the Target Center, St. Paul has to have the Xcel Center. The Minneapolis Institute of Arts vs. the Science Museum of Minnesota. The Star Tribune vs. the Pioneer Press. I-35W vs. I-35E. The Wells Fargo Center vs., well, the Wells Fargo Center. I'm sure the location of the present Amtrak station is the result of a bad compromise.

When the first light-rail route was built, it went from downtown Minneapolis to the Mall of America, mostly following railroad right of way. This meant that the next line had to be the Central Corridor, because that goes through St. Paul, even if other routes might have generated more traffic.

With regard to heavy rail, this results in a situation where a commuter line from the northwest, and a possible line to Duluth are planned to come into a new station in downtown Minneapolis, while Amtrak, high-speed rail from Chicago, and planned commuter rail from the south east and northeast are to come into St. Paul Union Depot. Does this make sense? Of course not.

But we've shown ourselves quite willing to cut off our noses to spite our faces. There was much cheering when St. Paul was chosen to host the Republican Nat'l Convention -- not that we beat out Tampa or St. Louis, but that we beat out Minneapolis. In the end, of course, Minneapolis benefited from whatever bump in tourist business the convention caused, while we got the demonstrations. Me, I was in Glacier National Park that week.

 

[Cascadia]

There was much cheering when St. Paul was chosen to host the Republican Nat'l Convention -- not that we beat out Tampa or St. Louis, but that we beat out Minneapolis. In the end, of course, Minneapolis benefited from whatever bump in tourist business the convention caused, while we got the demonstrations. Me, I was in Glacier National Park that week.

Smart move to get the heck out of town for that one (same if it had been the DNC).

That example is a perfect illustration of the "what one has, the other must have" principle you outlined, because Minneapolis had their own political convention during the Republican National Convention, they hosted the Ron Paul "Rally for the Republic" at the Target Center downtown. I would have actually liked to go to that one but am 1500 miles away.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

With regard to heavy rail, this results in a situation where a commuter line from the northwest, and a possible line to Duluth are planned to come into a new station in downtown Minneapolis, while Amtrak, high-speed rail from Chicago, and planned commuter rail from the south east and northeast are to come into St. Paul Union Depot. Does this make sense? Of course not.

The plan for the reconstructed St. Paul Union Depot is to have 7 through tracks for commuter rail / the Empire Builder / HSR, with 1200' platforms. Maybe the platforms should be built 1300' long instead to match the California HSR plan (someday there may be ~200 MPH sleepers from Minneapolis and St. Paul to California), but that's really the only thing I can find to complain about with the heavy rail plan for Union Depot, and I suspect 1200' platforms won't really cause major operational problems anyway.

I'm not sure if the plan takes into account how HSR might change Empire Builder operations. It seems to me that there would be no need for a MSP-CHI only coach if there were multiple high speed trains traveling between those cities.

I get the impression that nothing about the physical layout of Union Depot would prevent inbound commuter trains from continuing to downtown Minneapolis if someone someday decides it's a good enough idea to overcome any political inertia. Not sure how the Minneapolis station would work for that, though.

 

[WICT106]

With regard to heavy rail, this results in a situation where a commuter line from the northwest, and a possible line to Duluth are planned to come into a new station in downtown Minneapolis, while Amtrak, high-speed rail from Chicago, and planned commuter rail from the south east and northeast are to come into St. Paul Union Depot. Does this make sense? Of course not.

The plan for the reconstructed St. Paul Union Depot is to have 7 through tracks for commuter rail / the Empire Builder / HSR, with 1200' platforms. Maybe the platforms should be built 1300' long instead to match the California HSR plan (someday there may be ~200 MPH sleepers from Minneapolis and St. Paul to California), but that's really the only thing I can find to complain about with the heavy rail plan for Union Depot, and I suspect 1200' platforms won't really cause major operational problems anyway.

I'm not sure if the plan takes into account how HSR might change Empire Builder operations. It seems to me that there would be no need for a MSP-CHI only coach if there were multiple high speed trains traveling between those cities.

I get the impression that nothing about the physical layout of Union Depot would prevent inbound commuter trains from continuing to downtown Minneapolis if someone someday decides it's a good enough idea to overcome any political inertia. Not sure how the Minneapolis station would work for that, though.

Well, let's see now. The GN station in Minneapolis no longer exists. Where would the trains stop in downtown Minneapolis ?

 

[Ispolkom]

Well, let's see now. The GN station in Minneapolis no longer exists. Where would the trains stop in downtown Minneapolis ?

Here: http://www.northstartrain.org/station_mpls.html

 

[fizzball]

Well, let's see now. The GN station in Minneapolis no longer exists. Where would the trains stop in downtown Minneapolis ?

The new ballpark station would seem to be the most likely candidate, but the station plans do not currently include Amtrak. A train could bypass the current station, go NW through the yards north of the U of M campus, turn SW at Hennepin/Harrison, then across Boom Island to reach the station. Assuming Google Maps is correct at all; I see it still shows track across the Stone Arch Bridge, which...well, no.

What route through the area does the EB presently take to St. Cloud?

 

[WICT106]

Well, let's see now. The GN station in Minneapolis no longer exists. Where would the trains stop in downtown Minneapolis ?

The new ballpark station would seem to be the most likely candidate, but the station plans do not currently include Amtrak. A train could bypass the current station, go NW through the yards north of the U of M campus, turn SW at Hennepin/Harrison, then across Boom Island to reach the station. Assuming Google Maps is correct at all; I see it still shows track across the Stone Arch Bridge, which...well, no.

What route through the area does the EB presently take to St. Cloud?

It Enters St. Paul from the SW on the rails of the Canadian Pacific, then transfers to the Minnesota Transfer RR in order to go to the St. Paul (present) station, then it transfers to the BN, goes through Northtown yard, remains on the east side of the Mississippi until past Saint Cloud.

 

[Rafi]

In case anyone wants to see a map, here is my GPS' tracing of the route from the current MSP station through downtown St. Paul. The red pushpin on the right is the location of the old Union Depot.

(Note: click on the map for a bigger, easier to read version)

Rafi