sunset limited shut out in stimulus

[yarrow]

sunset limited shut out in stimulus

 

[amtrakwolverine]

and there saying amtrak might not even see a penny of the stimulus at all.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

BTW, how does freight get from La. and Tx to the southeast?

 

[HP_Lovecraft]

and?

The Amtrak spokeman admits right in the article that it should not be in the Spendulus bill, as its not a shovel-ready job creating project.

 

[the_traveler]

The bill is for "shovel ready projects"? AFAIK, the line has been repaired by CSX A LONG TIME AGO and CSX EVEN OPERATES TRAINS ON IT! :blink: The only "un-shovel ready project" (as Amtrak likes to point out) may be rebuilding the Mobile station!

I'm sure that other projects (in places like Vermont or Idaho - I'm just picking any states - like building roads or buildings) are not "shovel ready" and the bulldozers are just sitting by the pile of dirt and will start tomorrow!

 

[wayman]

The bill is for "shovel ready projects"? AFAIK, the line has been repaired by CSX A LONG TIME AGO and CSX EVEN OPERATES TRAINS ON IT! :blink: The only "un-shovel ready project" (as Amtrak likes to point out) may be rebuilding the Mobile station!
I'm sure that other projects (in places like Vermont or Idaho - I'm just picking any states - like building roads or buildings) are not "shovel ready" and the bulldozers are just sitting by the pile of dirt and will start tomorrow!

I have a (snow) shovel. I'm eagerly awaiting the first snowfall after the Stimulus is enacted into law so I can ask for my share.

... what? It doesn't work that way?... :blink: :huh:

But seriously, I agree: it didn't seem like the author of this article really had an understanding of the situation here. And since Congress specifically allocated funds to the Sunset East study in 2008, for a study which is now (barely?) underway, I have no clue what anyone on the Gulf Coast is complaining about with regards to the Stimulus bill. They got their money six months ago; the fact that Amtrak is continuing to be stubborn has nothing to do with Congress at this point.

 

[WICT106]

Regarding Sunset & Gulf Coast Route east: there should be service twice per day each way. Two trains per day over the route, with all stations along the route having at least two departures in each direction every day. I am also starting to think that we should institute additional trains on each route, with better timekeeping and higher speeds, before instituting any new routes.

 

[haolerider]

Regarding Sunset & Gulf Coast Route east: there should be service twice per day each way. Two trains per day over the route, with all stations along the route having at least two departures in each direction every day. I am also starting to think that we should institute additional trains on each route, with better timekeeping and higher speeds, before instituting any new routes.

Where did you do your studies to determine that two frequencies are needed on the Gulf Coast route, or is this just wishful thinking?

 

[WICT106]

Regarding Sunset & Gulf Coast Route east: there should be service twice per day each way. Two trains per day over the route, with all stations along the route having at least two departures in each direction every day. I am also starting to think that we should institute additional trains on each route, with better timekeeping and higher speeds, before instituting any new routes.

Where did you do your studies to determine that two frequencies are needed on the Gulf Coast route, or is this just wishful thinking?

Just wishful thinking.

 

[zoltan]

Where did you do your studies to determine that two frequencies are needed on the Gulf Coast route, or is this just wishful thinking?

Though I would expect a frequent service could attract significant local traffic, possibly even NOL commuting on the western end, between NOL and Mobile; I wouldn't see a need for more than one train East Thereof, however.

 

[JeffConn]

For what it's worth, the Biloxi and Gulfport stations also need a good bit of work. They were both heavily damaged in Katrina.

 

[Acela150]

three simple words

GIVE IT UP!!!

it's not going to happen again

Stephen

 

[AmtrakWPK]

The Amtrak spokesman's comment about shovel-ready was appropriate, because he was certainly shoveling a lot of material emanating from the south end of a northbound bull. His comment that Amtrak doesn't own the tracks was irrelevant and misleading. They never did own those tracks, and those tracks were very swiftly repaired and put back into full operation by CSX. Even mentioning those tracks had to have been calculated to mislead, and to point the fault away from where it belongs, at Amtrak HQ. And there are Amtrak stops where there is simply an area of level ground for passengers to be picked up or dropped off. The lack of, or damage to, stations is not a valid excuse to avoid resuming the full Sunset. The damaged or destroyed stations do not block the tracks (CSX has been running trains quite well, thank you very much, since their very timely repair of the damaged or destroyed track sections), and that's all that running of a train truly requires. Start the service back up, and the "stations" problem will sort itself out. The poor ridership (note that a full third of ridership was admitted to have been on the portion dropped) wasn't due to unpopularity of the route - it was due to the huge delays that U.P. - Union Pacific (Unlimited Parking, or Utterly Pathetic, if you prefer) subjected Sunset to, in violation of the Federal agreement to expedite Amtrak trains. Give it decent OTP, and I would expect ridership to increase very substantially.

Amtrak is simply holding Sunset hostage, attempting to extort funding from LA, MS, AL, and FL before they will release the hostage and restart the Southern Transcontinental Route. They need to be reminded that their purpose is to provide a NATIONAL passenger rail system,. Amtrak isn't supposed to be the "NEC and other State-funded Passenger Rail System". Their corporate behavior and their statements about this are despicable, underhanded, and dishonest.

And for those of you who live near, and use, the NEC, I hope you appreciate how the long-distance nationwide Amtrak routes are subsidizing your trains, and how Amtrak HQ seems to be of a mindset that anything other than the NEC or state-supported routes are irrelevant. I'm sure you would be VERY pleased and encouraged if something happened that shut down the NEC and Amtrak just sat with it's thumb located you-know-where and the rest of us told you:

three simple words
GIVE IT UP!!!

it's not going to happen again

 

[the_traveler]

I do live on the NEC (the northern end), and I appreciate it and the whole NATIONWIDE system! I appreciate it more when i realize that with 1 train a day on many routes, and being on the north end of the NEC, it is hard to connect to some trains. (Such as the Cardinal, even though that is 3 times a week. The only way I can connect to it is via a ride on the overnight 66/67 - in coach or maybe in BC.)

 

[saxman]

I'd probably say that the Sunset is probably THE most shovel ready project out there. The stations are there. The track is there. I bet they could start next week. And to say thats its the least popular route. Well I wonder why? Three times a week running and then cutting off a huge portion of it. Then complaining that its not very popular. As I understood it, the eastern part of the Sunset took in more revenue than the western part.

 

[wayman]

I'd probably say that the Sunset is probably THE most shovel ready project out there. The stations are there. The track is there. I bet they could start next week. And to say thats its the least popular route. Well I wonder why? Three times a week running and then cutting off a huge portion of it. Then complaining that its not very popular. As I understood it, the eastern part of the Sunset took in more revenue than the western part.

I agree with you about the Sunset's route being shovel-ready; but for Sunset service to resume, they'll need trains, and my understanding is that they've absorbed that equipment into the system. Of course, there's money (between the stimulus and other sources) going towards plowing through the backlog of a few dozen cars waiting to be repaired, and once those cars are ready...

 

[wayman]

three simple words
GIVE IT UP!!!

it's not going to happen again

Stephen

:huh:

A week ago, you were organizing a petition drive to bring back the Sunset East...

 

[the_traveler]

I'd probably say that the Sunset is probably THE most shovel ready project out there. The stations are there. The track is there. I bet they could start next week.

I agree with you about the Sunset's route being shovel-ready; but for Sunset service to resume, they'll need trains, and my understanding is that they've absorbed that equipment into the system.

:huh:

I thought I heard that the unused trainsets sit in the yard at NOL on the days they would have gone east until they would have returned to NOL? :huh:

 

[harl222000]

For what it's worth, the Biloxi and Gulfport stations also need a good bit of work. They were both heavily damaged in Katrina.

Actually, Amtrak didn't use the station in Gulfport {a Model RR Museum} only the platform.

http://www.trainweb.org/sunsetfriends/depots/guf.htm

And Biloxi never had an Amtrak station , only a platform with a "shed".

http://www.trainweb.org/sunsetfriends/depots/bix.htm

And our station in Bay St. Louis is just fine.

http://www.trainweb.org/sunsetfriends/depots/bas.htm

Both are heads above, in there present condition, than the "station" in Beaumont Texas.

http://www.trainweb.org/sunsetfriends/depots/bmt.htm

Now the station in Mobile is a different story, but again, all you need is the platform.

The building was not destroyed by Katrina, the city tore it down to make way for a failed condo project.

http://www.trainweb.org/sunsetfriends/depots/moe.htm

Allan Thomas

http://sunsetteam.net/

 

[George Harris]

. . . to say thats its the least popular route. Well I wonder why? Three times a week running and then cutting off a huge portion of it. Then complaining that its not very popular.

The best equivalence is once I once heard: "Murdering your parents and when arrested asking the judge for mercy because you are an orphan."

 

[AlanB]

. . . to say thats its the least popular route. Well I wonder why? Three times a week running and then cutting off a huge portion of it. Then complaining that its not very popular.

The best equivalence is once I once heard: "Murdering your parents and when arrested asking the judge for mercy because you are an orphan."

I love it George! That's great. :lol: :lol:

 

[had8ley]

. . . to say thats its the least popular route. Well I wonder why? Three times a week running and then cutting off a huge portion of it. Then complaining that its not very popular.

The best equivalence is once I once heard: "Murdering your parents and when arrested asking the judge for mercy because you are an orphan."

I love it George! That's great. :lol: :lol:

Yeah...and then saying you're homeless because the Mobile station was torn down. <_< <_<

 

[henryj]

Regarding Sunset & Gulf Coast Route east: there should be service twice per day each way. Two trains per day over the route, with all stations along the route having at least two departures in each direction every day. I am also starting to think that we should institute additional trains on each route, with better timekeeping and higher speeds, before instituting any new routes.

This continually comes up for some reason. It's amazing how little research or how little people know about this route. It is 617 miles from New Orleans to Jacksonville by rail and another 147 miles to Orlando, the main destination for passengers on the Sunset Limited. This route has always been slooooow even before Amtrak and sparsley served. The main traffic is for Florida, not the cities in between. The pre-Katrina schedule called for 17+ hours to transit the 617 miles and another 3 1/2 hours to get to Orlando. This is not one of your mid-west style corridors. No train can make this run without some overnight travel and none can serve all the cities on it in daylight. So how do you do two trains a day and why would you????????? There might be corridor trains someday between Baton Rouge, New Orleans and Mobile but that is about it. The route cannot be speeded up without spending millions of dollars and that for a train that only runs three times a week. Interstate 10 crosses Mobile Bay for a straight shot along the coast. The CSX detours north to Flomaton going completely around Mobile Bay and adding miles to the route. You would have to build a railroad bridge accross the bay along side I10. The only people using this agonizingly slow route are on the train just for the experience. Anyone else would drive it in 10 hours or fly. From Houston it's an additional 9 hours on the train to go only 360 miles plus the layover in NOL making it a 30+ hour trip. I think I will just fly there in a couple of hours on Southwest. Amtrak does not want to restore the Sunset east of NOL for good economical and operational reasons. The emphasis should be on making the Sunset daily and setting up a separate train east of NOL or just make it a bus connection with separate busses for Orlando and Jacksonville.

 

[had8ley]

Regarding Sunset & Gulf Coast Route east: there should be service twice per day each way. Two trains per day over the route, with all stations along the route having at least two departures in each direction every day. I am also starting to think that we should institute additional trains on each route, with better timekeeping and higher speeds, before instituting any new routes.

This continually comes up for some reason. It's amazing how little research or how little people know about this route.

Yes, indeed it is.

Amtrak does not want to restore the Sunset east of NOL for good economical and operational reasons. The emphasis should be on making the Sunset daily and setting up a separate train east of NOL or just make it a bus connection with separate buses for Orlando and Jacksonville.

Amtrak has had oodles of time to make a bustitution for this leg; it doesn't take "re-building depots" to accomplish this feat as the nearest Denny's or IHOP will usually allow a bus to stop especially when it may add to their own business. It's utterly amazing how well Amtrak can weld their ears shut when so many people are clammering for service that could start tomorrow if everyone was qualified on the territory. This horse is so dead that it envies the petrified forests.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Regarding Sunset & Gulf Coast Route east: there should be service twice per day each way. Two trains per day over the route, with all stations along the route having at least two departures in each direction every day. I am also starting to think that we should institute additional trains on each route, with better timekeeping and higher speeds, before instituting any new routes.

[This continually comes up for some reason. It's amazing how little research or how little people know about this route. It is 617 miles from New Orleans to Jacksonville by rail and another 147 miles to Orlando, the main destination for passengers on the Sunset Limited. This route has always been slooooow even before Amtrak and sparsley served. The main traffic is for Florida, not the cities in between. The pre-Katrina schedule called for 17+ hours to transit the 617 miles and another 3 1/2 hours to get to Orlando. This is not one of your mid-west style corridors. No train can make this run without some overnight travel and none can serve all the cities on it in daylight. So how do you do two trains a day and why would you????????? There might be corridor trains someday between Baton Rouge, New Orleans and Mobile but that is about it. The route cannot be speeded up without spending millions of dollars and that for a train that only runs three times a week. Interstate 10 crosses Mobile Bay for a straight shot along the coast. The CSX detours north to Flomaton going completely around Mobile Bay and adding miles to the route. You would have to build a railroad bridge accross the bay along side I10. The only people using this agonizingly slow route are on the train just for the experience. Anyone else would drive it in 10 hours or fly. From Houston it's an additional 9 hours on the train to go only 360 miles plus the layover in NOL making it a 30+ hour trip. I think I will just fly there in a couple of hours on Southwest. Amtrak does not want to restore the Sunset east of NOL for good economical and operational reasons. The emphasis should be on making the Sunset daily and setting up a separate train east of NOL or just make it a bus connection with separate busses for Orlando and Jacksonville.]

I made 4-5 trips per year on the Sunset Limited between Jacksonville and New Orleans and points in between. I always was in the Sleeping Car so I spent 7-8 hours of the 17 hours sleeping and had dinner and breakfast on the train. I know a number of people in the Jacksonville area who did the same thing. These are people who would not ride a intercity bus. Yes, you can fly, but it means a connection through Atlanta or somewhere else and delays in Atlanta happen. Southwest did have a non stop to New Orleans at one time, but that was discontinued prior to Katrina. The Sunset between Jacksonville and New Orleans was usually fairly well patronized considering it was a 3 day per week operation. There were lots of passengers connecting in Jacksonville and New Orleans. I did not ride the Sunset for the experience, but the fact that is was (when it ran on schedule) convenient and made economic sense. I have driven I-10 to Tallahassee and Pensacola and it is long boring drive. Having 2 trains per day from JAX to Tally would make sense, but Florida would need to come up with some fung.