Texas Eagle discussion

[jis]

Ah. That makes sense. For some reason I thought the sunset limited was flex dining as well.

I agree - it should be called something else from SAS to LA to make that distinction clearer. Maybe the desert flyer?

The train between SAS and LAX already has a name. It is Sunset Limited. In the old days such transfer cars were sometimes given dual name like Texas Eagle - Sunset Limited. There is no need to in effect give the train between SAS and LAX two names. As far as reservations and car identity goes the consist position id of the car is adequate to identify them for all things that matter.

 

[zephyr17]

Ah. That makes sense. For some reason I thought the sunset limited was flex dining as well.

I agree - it should be called something else from SAS to LA to make that distinction clearer. Maybe the desert flyer?

Just continue to call it the Sunset and the through cars to Chicago, Chicago cars. Simple. That's how it generally would have been done back in the day.

Note that due to reservation system limitations, those Chicago cars must have their own independent train numbers, so 421/422 aren't going anywhere, irrespective of what you call it.

In my mind, the Sunset is a Los Angeles-New Orleans train carrying Chicago cars as far as San Antonio. The Texas Eagle is a Chicago-San Antonio train carrying Los Angeles cars handled on the Sunset west of San Antonio.

Adding a third train name for the Sunset west of San Antonio would just add more confusion, not diminish it.

 

[MARC Rider]

True this!

The difference between riding between Chicago and San Antonio on the Eaglete, compared to the Sunset Ltd between San Antonio and LA, is like riding a late 1960s SP Sunset Ltd compared to the Santa Fe's Super Chief!

While I get what you're trying to say, from the accounts I've read of the Santa Fe Super Chief and my experience riding Amtrak's Southwest Chief, Empire Builder, and California Zephyr (equivalent to the Sunset Limited), I gather that even the best of Amtrak's offerings does not compare with the Super Chief of old.

 

[zephyr17]

While I get what you're trying to say, from the accounts I've read of the Santa Fe Super Chief and my experience riding Amtrak's Southwest Chief, Empire Builder, and California Zephyr (equivalent to the Sunset Limited), I gather that even the best of Amtrak's offerings does not compare with the Super Chief of old.

Having actually ridden on the Super Chief, I will say Amtrak not only doesn't compare, it isn't remotely in the same league.

When Brian Rosenwald's Amtrak West Coast Starlight was in full flower, I used to say that, while it wasn't the Super Chief, you could kind of see it from there. That was as close as Amtrak ever got.

 

[railiner]

And why the Marketing Department thinks it's wise to call the entire Chicago to LA run as Texas Eagle is beyond me, other than to give passengers the idea that they don't actually change trains. Sadly, the experience on 421/422 is quite different from 1/2. And some passengers are surprised at the change.

I agree, but it is a railroad practice that goes back into Amtrak history (combined trains such as the California Zephyr/Pioneer/Desert Wind carrying their individual train numbers and names all the way into Chicago).

Or back even further…the UP City of Los Angeles in its final year nicknamed “City of Everywhere” when combined with Cities of San Francisco, Portland, Denver, and St. Louis over portions of its route.
The BN’s combined Afternoon Zephyr, Empire Builder, and North Coast Limited, combined between Chicago and St. Paul was another example, although in its case, the three trains were each pretty much intact the whole way except for the locomotives and some cars added at St. Paul.

There were many other examples around the country…

 

[zephyr17]

I agree, but it is a railroad practice that goes back into Amtrak history (combined trains such as the California Zephyr/Pioneer/Desert Wind carrying their individual train numbers and names all the way into Chicago).

Or back even further…the UP City of Los Angeles in its final year nicknamed “City of Everywhere” when combined with Cities of San Francisco, Portland, Denver, and St. Louis over portions of its route.
The BN’s combined Afternoon Zephyr, Empire Builder, and North Coast Limited, combined between Chicago and St. Paul was another example, although in its case, the three trains were each pretty much intact the whole way except for the locomotives and some cars added at St. Paul.

There were many other examples around the country…

I make a pretty strong distinction between Amtrak and what went before, when comes to "historical" with Amtrak often not conforming to previous practice.

While, towards the end, the practice of combining trains became common for operating efficiencies, the trains often were just coupled together. The Afternoon Hiawatha Zephyr/North Coast Limited/Empire Builder is a prime example. Each train's consist and identity was pretty much intact between Minneapolis and Chicago, including diner and lounges. They all just got pulled by one set of engines between those points. The City of Everywhere maintained the same amenities of all its constituent services, though in some cases some lounges and diners were switched out, access to lounges and diners remained for the entire duration of each train. UP also meticulously rearranged the consist so sleepers and coaches were not intermixed on the combined train. I may not be recalling precisely, but as an example, on the City of Portland I seem to recall got its own diner at Green River, but kept the dome lounge it had had from Chicago. I know the SP had its own diner and lounges between Oakland and Ogden on the CoSF, but it had always been that way, even when CoSF ran entirely independently.

The Eagle's operation much more resembles "through car" operation where cars, mostly Pullmans then, were switched between trains that had their own indivdual identities. Pullman cars getting switched between trains was an extremely common practice. That generally didn't change the identity of the trains they were carried on. One late era example is the through Pullman to Seattle carried on the Cascade that lasted into the 60s. The Cascade terminated in Portland. The NP/GN/UP "pool" train that took the Seattle car (don't recall which one it was) on to Seattle did not become the Cascade.

 

[jshell]

Apologies if I'm asking stuff that's been asked before. I'm planning a solo trip to some concerts in the heartland this summer (early August), ending in Oklahoma City. It's timed such that I can catch the westbound Eagle out to LA. I've been looking at the train status maps, trying to figure out why I didn't see 421 or 422, which brought me here.

I'll be boarding in Fort Worth and I'm trying to understand what all happens after that . I have ridden the Empire Builder west to east, starting in Seattle, so I have some reference of a train merging (I surprisingly slept through that whole operation). So what happens on this route?

From my understanding of the last few pages - if I get on the Texas Eagle in Fort Worth (I'm planning on a roomette for this trip), my car and a couple of others become part of the Sunset Limited in San Antonio?

How is that stretch from Fort Worth to San Antonio? Is that where on-board provisions are kind of low?

I see a lot of references earlier to "flex meals" and "Eaglet". What are these?

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

Apologies if I'm asking stuff that's been asked before. I'm planning a solo trip to some concerts in the heartland this summer (early August), ending in Oklahoma City. It's timed such that I can catch the westbound Eagle out to LA. I've been looking at the train status maps, trying to figure out why I didn't see 421 or 422, which brought me here.

I'll be boarding in Fort Worth and I'm trying to understand what all happens after that . I have ridden the Empire Builder west to east, starting in Seattle, so I have some reference of a train merging (I surprisingly slept through that whole operation). So what happens on this route?

From my understanding of the last few pages - if I get on the Texas Eagle in Fort Worth (I'm planning on a roomette for this trip), my car and a couple of others become part of the Sunset Limited?

How is that stretch from Fort Worth to San Antonio? Is that where on-board provisions are kind of low?

I see a lot of references earlier to "flex meals" and "Eaglet". What are these?

The hubby and I will be riding the Texas Eagle from Pontiac, IL to Fort Worth in October, and the TE tracks run right past our workplace, so perhaps I can answer a few of your questions.
You will be riding the Heartland Flyer (a regional train) to Fort Worth, then boarding the westbound TE to Los Angeles. From Chicago to St. Louis, the TE consist (after the engine or engines) is a sleeping car, a Cross Country Cafe (where the flex meals are prepared for sleeping car passengers), and 3 coaches; one of these coaches terminates at St. Louis, so the consist from St. Louis to San Antonio is engine(s) + sleeper + CCC + 2 coaches. At the point where you board the TE in Fort Worth, IF it's on time, you should be getting a flex meal supper before it arrives in San Antonio (at approx. 8:45PM, IF it's on time). There is then a layover of several hours in San Antonio, while the sleeper and 1 coach from the TE are attached to the westbound Sunset Limited. You might not have electrical power in your roomette for part of the layover time, but if it's during the night, you'll probably sleep through the whole thing. It's possible that on-board provisions might be running low on the TE from Fort Worth to San Antonio, but there will probably at least be some emergency provisions aboard (maybe the "Amstew" (Dinty Moore beef stew) that's often mentioned in trip reports when a train is very delayed). By the time you wake up the next morning, the rest of your meals until you reach LA will be from the traditional dining menu in the Sunset Limited's dining car.
"Flex meals" are similar to microwave entrees you might purchase at the supermarket, served with a small salad, bread roll, and individually-wrapped dessert (at lunch and supper). You can find the TE's flexible dining menu on the Amtrak website, and there are plenty of YouTube videos which include commentary on Amtrak's "flex meals."
"Eaglet" is a diminuative nickname for the TE, mostly referring to its short consist, but also to the perception that it's the "orphaned stepchild" of Amtrak's western long-distance routes.
Hope this helps!

 

[railiner]

The Afternoon Hiawatha/North Coast Limited/Empire Builder is a prime example. Each train's consist and identity was pretty much intact between Minneapolis and Chicago,

Not the Hiawatha, the Afternoon Zephyr (BN all the way from Chicago, then). The trains were split at St. Paul, all separate on to Minneapolis, IIRC....

 

[jshell]

Hope this helps!

That helps a lot, thank you! I've encountered that stew before - on this very train! I did ride it from Austin TX to Bloomington, IL back in 2019 and we got caught up in a storm and hit a tree and were stuck there all night. I did find it's much easier to sleep on a train when it's not moving!

This western stretch is all new to me. Thanks for your help! I never knew this train fused with the Sunset.

 

[Willbridge]

The Eagle's operation much more resembles "through car" operation where cars, mostly Pullmans then, were switched between trains that had their own indivdual identities. Pullman cars getting switched between trains was an extremely common practice. That generally didn't change the identity of the trains they were carried on. One late era example is the through Pullman to Seattle carried on the Cascade that lasted into the 60s. The Cascade terminated in Portland. The NP/GN/UP "pool" train that took the Seattle car (don't recall which one it was) on to Seattle did not become the Cascade.

For many, many years, UP457 carried the Oakland sleepers from Portland to Seattle and NP408 brought them back. That service ended in late 1965 or early 1966. There was a pool of sleepers painted in SP colors, but lettered for Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, and Northern Pacific. The two trains were lined up on Tracks 4 and 5 and the coach passengers made a cross-platform transfer while a terminal company switcher moved sleepers.

Back to the Eagle: Texas once had quite a few through car services thanks to its geography. It's hard to pick just one route. The problem now is the substandard Eagle, not how it's named or numbered.