Timely Ticket scanning

[MARC Rider]

I once rode to Atlanta in a Slumbercoach on the Crescent in 1990, and they had a whole check-in procedure at the information desk in Baltimore. They checked my name off a big computer print-out of the passenger manifest, and told me where to stand on the platform to access my car. It was a pretty long train, with coaches, a diner, a lounge car, several sleepers, and the slumbercoach. They may have been running the separate section to Mobile at the time, too, but I don't remember now.

 

[Acela150]

Folks, when I get to a computer later tonight I can dispel some of the truths and myths. As well as give you some accurate information about ticket scanning and the timing.

 

[jis]

Folks, when I get to a computer later tonight I can dispel some of the truths and myths. As well as give you some accurate information about ticket scanning and the timing.

That would be most welcome since we are in an extended exercise of one sided speculation at this point. Only concrete stuff we have is specific observed events, and the we are trying to extrapolate from those, which may or may not produce valid conjectures.

 

[railiner]

They may have been running the separate section to Mobile at the time, too, but I don't remember now.

They were...
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19900401b&item=0042

 

[Acela150]

I noticed this on a recent BBY-PGH trip my family and I took. We were in coach on the NER, so there was no question of our assigned seats being bought by someone else, but the conductor did not scan tickets until we were almost to Kingston RI. I am just thankful it did not show up as a no show since that would have cancelled our PHL-PGH trip on the Pennsylvanian.

Not sure of when you traveled. But if you were on 95 that train can be pretty heavy out of BOS, BBY, & RTE.

The Conductor has to notify that he is done scanning for anything to become no show. Apparently s/he was aware that scanning was not complete and did not notify the system as such, so nothing would have been converted to no show.

A common myth that is being put to bed. Conductors have no way to notify that our lift is complete out of any station. If tickets aren't lifted within a certain time frame they'll go to "no show" status. However it is possible to reinstate a no show on the device.

You are referring to the Sweep button. I don't think it actually affects no show processing. I've seen no shows process even when I've not used the sweep function.

The delays in scanning tickets are seeing are more likely related to short staffing.

Correct. The sweep function is an optional feature.

As much as I enjoy the unrestricted platform access in much of the US, except where gate dragons rule like at CHI, ALB, and certain NEC stations, I sympathize with the ticket lifting issue.

As much as people complain about those "gate dragons" they were a huge benefit to the conductors. They no longer check tickets at the gate and that results in people getting on the wrong train and conductors telling them to get off at the next stop and wait for the right train.

Same here on other LD trains. I believe that sometimes, the SCA will report your presence to the conductor.

Yes. This is an extremely common practice. I did it during my OBS days on ocassion.

Usually when I get on the LSL or Capitol in Cleveland, I'm the only one getting on sleeper and they just ask my name.

That's a common way to look up a pax ticket.

That would be most welcome since we are in an extended exercise of one sided speculation at this point. Only concrete stuff we have is specific observed events, and the we are trying to extrapolate from those, which may or may not produce valid conjectures.

Not a problem my friend! Always enjoy helping out when I can.

If you rely entirely on digital systems this type of thing will occur. That's why it's good that conductors are still humans and (hopefully) able to apply some common sense.

If an issue occurs where someone's reservation shows up as cancelled and it's due to conductors failing to scan one leg of a round trip or multi leg trip there is an internal reservations desk we can call at CNOC that can help us reinstate the entire reservation.

 

[Willbridge]

They used to do it inside the station, at the “check-in desk”, when I worked there in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s. Not scanned back then, but lifted. Coach passengers were issued seat checks with their destination and car number (but open seating within that car)…

The check-in desks were removed in order to make more room for the drinking and dining customers. In bitter cold, the conductors do ad lib ticket scanning indoors.

Here's the old location:


Here's the new location:


The narrow spot caused by the elevator shaft is used as a control point:

 

[railiner]

The check-in desks were removed in order to make more room for the drinking and dining customers. In bitter cold, the conductors do ad lib ticket scanning indoors.

Here's the old location:
View attachment 30691

Here's the new location:
View attachment 30692

The narrow spot caused by the elevator shaft is used as a control point:
View attachment 30693

Ah....Progress!

 

[aroc34]

What happens if your ticket--always the old fashioned type printed out by staff at the station for me--isn't scanned? On a recent return trip from Gainesville, Florida to Washington, DC in a roomette I don't think it was ever scanned. Am I missing out on my points? Or something else could have happened while I was on board?

 

[zephyr17]

What happens if your ticket--always the old fashioned type printed out by staff at the station for me--isn't scanned? On a recent return trip from Gainesville, Florida to Washington, DC in a roomette I don't think it was ever scanned. Am I missing out on my points? Or something else could have happened while I was on board?

It depends on whether that "ticket" was a paper value ticket or an e-ticket boarding pass printed for you on ticket stock.

Either could be printed out by station staff on the same stock. An eticket boarding pass will have had a bar code on it, a value ticket would not. Your underlying ticket type determines what was actually printed out on that stock.

Situations requiring paper value tickets have gotten rare. Reportedly one of the last remaining value ticket holdouts, open sleeper tickets, are now e-ticketable. About the only situation left is when part of the reservation was on an interline/codeshare carrier, such as a bus company, whose systems are incompatible with Amtrak e-ticketing. In those cases, the entire reservation will drop to paper value tickets including Amtrak segments.

So, in order to answer your question, more information is needed than just "the agent printed it".
1. Did your reservation email include an e-ticket boarding pass PDF or did it contain instructions to pick up your ticket from an agent or kiosk before departure? Was the email titled "Reservation Confirmation" or "Reservation Confirmation and E-ticket"?
2. Was there a segment on another carrier, such as a bus or ferry, on the reservation?

If you had a value ticket, the conductor would have taken the ticket coupon and pouched it, leaving you the receipt stub of the ticket. He would not have scanned it as there would have been nothing scannable. If that is the case, you ought to receive AGR points for the trip once the ticket coupon is processed through Revenue Accounting.

If you had an e-ticket that wasn't scanned, it is possible the SCA simply told the conductor you were onboard and he checked you off, the equivalent of scanning. That is a practice I do not trust, having once been assured the conductor had me without having scanned my ticket when he hadn't. If that is the case, that he checked you in without scanning, your AGR credit should show up within a couple days. The other possibility is it wasn't scanned and the conductor didn't check you in. In that case, you would appear as having been a no show without getting any AGR credit for the trip.

The place to start is to know what kind of ticket you actually had, not just that you picked something up from an agent, which in itself is not indicative of anything. If you aren't not sure, look at your email, that should show what kind of ticket you had.

If you are sure you had an e-ticket and credit has not shown up, contact AGR and tell them you traveled but your ticket had not been scanned. They may be able to resurrect the points.

 

[aroc34]

It depends on whether that "ticket" was a paper value ticket or an e-ticket boarding pass printed for you on ticket stock.

Either could be printed out by station staff on the same stock. An eticket boarding pass will have had a bar code on it, a value ticket would not. Your underlying ticket type determines what was actually printed out on that stock.

Situations requiring paper value tickets have gotten rare. Reportedly one of the last remaining value ticket holdouts, open sleeper tickets, are now e-ticketable. About the only situation left is when part of the reservation was on an interline/codeshare carrier, such as a bus company, whose systems are incompatible with Amtrak e-ticketing. In those cases, the entire reservation will drop to paper value tickets including Amtrak segments.

So, in order to answer your question, more information is needed than just "the agent printed it".
1. Did your reservation email include an e-ticket boarding pass PDF or did it contain instructions to pick up your ticket from an agent or kiosk before departure? Was the email titled "Reservation Confirmation" or "Reservation Confirmation and E-ticket"?
2. Was there a segment on another carrier, such as a bus or ferry, on the reservation?

If you had a value ticket, the conductor would have taken the ticket coupon and pouched it, leaving you the receipt stub of the ticket. He would not have scanned it as there would have been nothing scannable. If that is the case, you ought to receive AGR points for the trip once the ticket coupon is processed through Revenue Accounting.

If you had an e-ticket that wasn't scanned, it is possible the SCA simply told the conductor you were onboard and he checked you off, the equivalent of scanning. That is a practice I do not trust, having once been assured the conductor had me without having scanned my ticket when he hadn't. If that is the case, that he checked you in without scanning, your AGR credit should show up within a couple days. The other possibility is it wasn't scanned and the conductor didn't check you in. In that case, you would appear as having been a no show without getting any AGR credit for the trip.

The place to start is to know what kind of ticket you actually had, not just that you picked something up from an agent, which in itself is not indicative of anything. If you aren't not sure, look at your email, that should show what kind of ticket you had.

If you are sure you had an e-ticket and credit has not shown up, contact AGR and tell them you traveled but your ticket had not been scanned. They may be able to resurrect the points.

Thank you for your thorough reply. My ticket was scannable. I don't have a printer so I always book my tickets online and have the outbound and return tickets printed out in a fully staffed station. I did have a Thruway bus to get from Jacksonville, FL to Gainesville, FL and then from Gainesville to Jacsonville for the return to Washington, DC. The driver picking me up in Jacksonville didn't scan tickets. The driver in Gainesville DID scan my ticket but no staff on the train did. Hope this clarifies my question for you. And thanks again.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Thank you for your thorough reply. My ticket was scannable. I don't have a printer so I always book my tickets online and have the outbound and return tickets printed out in a fully staffed station. I did have a Thruway bus to get from Jacksonville, FL to Gainesville, FL and then from Gainesville to Jacsonville for the return to Washington, DC. The driver picking me up in Jacksonville didn't scan tickets. The driver in Gainesville DID scan my ticket but no staff on the train did. Hope this clarifies my question for you. And thanks again.

Sounds like it’s an ETicket then. If the points aren’t in your AGR account within 7 days of travel, give them a call and they can look into it for you.

 

[zephyr17]

Thank you for your thorough reply. My ticket was scannable. I don't have a printer so I always book my tickets online and have the outbound and return tickets printed out in a fully staffed station. I did have a Thruway bus to get from Jacksonville, FL to Gainesville, FL and then from Gainesville to Jacsonville for the return to Washington, DC. The driver picking me up in Jacksonville didn't scan tickets. The driver in Gainesville DID scan my ticket but no staff on the train did. Hope this clarifies my question for you. And thanks again.

Then the fact that it was on ticket stock instead of a PDF printed at home or displayed on smartphone makes no difference. An e-ticket is an e-ticket and a scan is a scan irrespective of the media the boarding pass is printed/displayed on.

If it went unscanned and your presence was not otherwise entered for a travel segment, Amtrak systems will mark you as a no-show for that segment. You will not get AGR credit for that segment and subsequent segments on the reservation will be cancelled. It makes no difference whether previous segments were scanned or entered.

While the official guidance may be to allow 7 days for points to post (I am assuming @trimetbusfan is correct, I am not sure myself) , my experience is points for e-tickets on Amtrak segments normally show up within 48 hours of being scanned/entered.

Not receiving points on a timely basis would indicate your ticket was not scanned or entered. AGR will probably reinstate the points if you call. Losing points or having them delayed is the least consequence of a missed scan/entry, though. Subsequent segments being cancelled can raise havoc with travel plans and ruin trips. The space often will have been resold and be unavailable for reinstatement. That is why I always search out a conductor to check that they have me if my ticket is not scanned shortly after boarding. I hate the practice of an SCA simply reporting to the conductor that all manifested passengers are present and and the conductor then just checking everyone off. It is actually against policy (not that that ever matters at Amtrak) and you don't know if it actually happened without checking. You know for certain when a conductor lifts/scans your ticket, as they are supposed to.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Then the fact that it was on ticket stock instead of a PDF printed at home or displayed on smartphone makes no difference. An e-ticket is an e-ticket and a scan is a scan irrespective of the media the boarding pass is printed/displayed on.

If it went unscanned and your presence was not otherwise entered for a travel segment, Amtrak systems will mark you as a no-show for that segment. You will not get AGR credit for that segment and subsequent segments on the reservation will be cancelled. It makes no difference whether previous segments were scanned or entered.

While the official guidance may be to allow 7 days for points to post (I am assuming @trimetbusfan is correct, I am not sure myself) , my experience is points for e-tickets on Amtrak segments normally show up within 48 hours of being scanned/entered.

Not receiving points on a timely basis would indicate your ticket was not scanned or entered. AGR will probably reinstate the points if you call. Losing points or having them delayed is the least consequence of a missed scan/entry, though. Subsequent segments being cancelled can raise havoc with travel plans and ruin trips. The space often will have been resold and be unavailable for reinstatement. That is why I always search out a conductor to check that they have me if my ticket is not scanned shortly after boarding. I hate the practice of an SCA simply reporting to the conductor that all manifested passengers are present and and the conductor then just checking everyone off. It is actually against policy (not that that ever matters at Amtrak) and you don't know if it actually happened without checking. You know for certain when a conductor lifts/scans your ticket, as they are supposed to.

Yes, points are normally posted within 36-48 hours as you said, but I’ve had it take longer on some rare occasions.

However AGR typically dosen’t investigate for missing points unless it’s been 7 days past travel and pts still aren’t awarded.

 

[rlcabin]

When traveling out of Emeryville CA to, say, Los Angeles or Chicago, I often book the 20-minute Amtrak bus connection from downtown San Francisco to Emeryville, which is shown as a separate trip leg on the ticket. The bus driver scans the ticket when you board. I sometimes wonder if I end up not taking the bus because someone drives me to Emeryville, whether the rest of my trip might be cancelled?

 

[zephyr17]

When traveling out of Emeryville CA to, say, Los Angeles or Chicago, I often book the 20-minute Amtrak bus connection from downtown San Francisco to Emeryville, which is shown as a separate trip leg on the ticket. The bus driver scans the ticket when you board. I sometimes wonder if I end up not taking the bus because someone drives me to Emeryville, whether the rest of my trip might be cancelled?

I understand there is a 2 hour or 2 stop grace period on long distance trains before the automatic cancellation kicks in. Since, unlike airlines, there are no boarding gates and tickets are mostly scanned onboard they cannot be overly tight on the time period before cancellation. If your ticket on the train is scanned before the clock runs out, the missed segment probably will not have an effect.

With that said, I would not deliberately risk it. If you want to go from EMY instead of SFC, ticket that way. Missing the bus by accident and getting driven to EMY to catch the train is a different matter.

 

[BCL]

I understand there is a 2 hour or 2 stop grace period on long distance trains before the automatic cancellation kicks in. Since, unlike airlines, there are no boarding gates and tickets are mostly scanned onboard they cannot be overly tight on the time period before cancellation. If your ticket on the train is scanned before the clock runs out, the missed segment probably will not have an effect.

With that said, I would not deliberately risk it. If you want to go from EMY instead of SFC, ticket that way. Missing the bus by accident and getting driven to EMY to catch the train is a different matter.

I've missed #11 in Emeryville as a round trip. It was bizarre because we heard an announcement to wait in "the garden area" and then the train actually stopped. There was a family that also missed the train. We were only making a day trip to Salinas. The family was going down to LA and had baggage on the train. A station agent suggested that they just take an Uber ride to Oakland where it was going to wait for a while as it was a scheduled restocking stop with a longish layover.

I wasn't sure what to do as I booked it with points. But I was able to just cancel in the Amtrak app and rebook. It did cost me a 10% AGR points penalty (on the full trip) on the points refund, but I was able to cancel before the auto cancellation. I might have been able to modify by calling it in, but that might have taken quite a while on hold. The station agent said they had a direct bus to Salinas that I could book with cash, but not where I could modify/cancel and book that. We ended up booking (with points) a Capitol Corridor/bus trip to Salinas and the same #14 CS ride back to Emeryville. We had time and went to buy some snacks, and even took an earlier Capitol Corridor train for the transfer in San Jose. But we then had a couple of hours in San Jose where we got something to eat. But in the end it worked out, although the return trip was more than 3 hours late - apparently due to a "trespassing incident" near LA Union Station that delayed all trains going north from LA.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Just took the Empire Builder. My sleeping car attendant had a mobile devise (similar to the ones the conductors use). In fact, I watched him ‘check me in’ (lift my ticket) right in front of me when while sitting in my room during his introduction. First time I’ve had that happen.

 

[Acela150]

Just took the Empire Builder. My sleeping car attendant had a mobile devise (similar to the ones the conductors use). In fact, I watched him ‘check me in’ (lift my ticket) right in front of me when while sitting in my room during his introduction. First time I’ve had that happen.

OBS have been issued eMD's for use of checking for updates to the manifest as well reporting mechanical issues with cars. However, OBS employees are NOT to lift tickets. Personally I'm against OBS employees being issued the eMD without some type of modification to the software that prevents OBS employees from lifting tickets.

 

[Bonser]

OBS have been issued eMD's for use of checking for updates to the manifest as well reporting mechanical issues with cars. However, OBS employees are NOT to lift tickets. Personally I'm against OBS employees being issued the eMD without some type of modification to the software that prevents OBS employees from lifting tickets.

Why?

 

[Acela150]

Why?

OBS employees are not revenue employees, it's considered theft of work from T&E.

 

[TinCan782]

Just took the Empire Builder. My sleeping car attendant had a mobile devise (similar to the ones the conductors use). In fact, I watched him ‘check me in’ (lift my ticket) right in front of me when while sitting in my room during his introduction. First time I’ve had that happen.

The other day on the Pacific Surfliner, the Business Class attendant had one of those to see if my ticket had been lifted. He said he couldn't do it himself; he had to go see the conductor to actually have the lift take place.