train travel in the 30s

[Nancy P]

I'm writing about a young woman who traveled (coach)from South Bend, Indiana, to Penn Station in 1938.

Questions:

1) How long would it have taken?

2) Would she have had to change cars?

3) Could she have caught the train late in the day and slept (so I don't have to describe the scenery or other passengers)?

Thanks to anyone who can answer these questions.

Nancy

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I'm writing about a young woman who traveled (coach)from South Bend, Indiana, to Penn Station in 1938.

Questions:

1) How long would it have taken?

2) Would she have had to change cars?

3) Could she have caught the train late in the day and slept (so I don't have to describe the scenery or other passengers)?

Thanks to anyone who can answer these questions.

Nancy

I do not have any timetables that old for the lines in question, but I have plenty from the 50's.

The two big railroads from CHI to NYC were the New York Central and the Pennsylvania. Problem is, the New York Central stopped in South Bend but terminated in Grand Central. Whereas Pennsylvania went to Penn Station but did not stop in South Bend.

Today's Amtrak train stops in South Bend and terminates in Penn Station, but that is today.Basically a New York Central route until closer in to New York.

So I am not sure how---in the past--- you would have boarded in South Bend and gone to Penn Station,unless you did some driving or something. I am not that intimately familiar with the landscape. Maybe others can help.Perhaps commuter trains could have helped.

There were plenty of trains between CHI and NY, perhaps about 10 in each line, plus some on some smaller railroads. Being an overnight schedule, no problem at all.

As for length of trip, keep in mind that trains back then differed significantly from each other in length of trip,number of stops. etc. Today's time is probably a good average. Keep in mind that the premier trains on each railroad made the trip in 16 hours.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

As for length of trip, keep in mind that trains back then differed significantly from each other in length of trip,number of stops. etc. Today's time is probably a good average. Keep in mind that the premier trains on each railroad made the trip in 16 hours.

Not so much for trains that stop in a podunk like South Bend. The Twentieth Century Limited wouldn't have stopped there, nor did the Vanderbilt.

 

[Anderson]

South Bend isn't terribly podunk as things go. The Twentieth Century Limited only stopped in like five places, IIRC: NYC, Albany, and a few stations on the way in to Chicago.

So I guess the question is whether there were there any "nice" non-limited stop trains on that route that would've picked up South Bend, or that would've picked up Indianapolis or another major city closer than Cleveland. I know you could have pulled a transfer at Cleveland (there were overnight trains going all over the place out of there and Detroit), but I'm not sure about anywhere else "in the middle".

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

South Bend isn't terribly podunk as things go. The Twentieth Century Limited only stopped in like five places, IIRC: NYC, Albany, and a few stations on the way in to Chicago.

So I guess the question is whether there were there any "nice" non-limited stop trains on that route that would've picked up South Bend, or that would've picked up Indianapolis or another major city closer than Cleveland. I know you could have pulled a transfer at Cleveland (there were overnight trains going all over the place out of there and Detroit), but I'm not sure about anywhere else "in the middle".

There were no dusk to dawn, say 7 a.m ish to 11 pm ish trains from CHI to NY.

All ran partly at night and most did stop at South Bend, New York Central trains, that is.

One example is the train then called the Lake Shore Limited. From a 1954 timetable it left South Bend at 7.46 pm and got to NY, Grand Central that is, not at Penn, at 12.59 pm next day.

As to the 20th Century Limited, in its hey day in only stopped in Englewood suburb of Chicago and in Harmon to switch to and from electric power. It stopped in Albany but only westbound,and only on Friday,Saturday and Sunday.

There were service stops but they were not advertised. This is in the 1954 timetable I am looking at in. In later years it added a stop or two.

 

[George Harris]

Likewise, I don't have any 1930's schedules at hand, either New York Central or Official Guide.

I would suggest that you change your New York station to Grand Central based on the South Bend Origin. There were probably several possibilities that would do what you want with GC as the destination. The likely elapsed time would be in the range of 18 hours, possibly up to 20 hours. She would be riding on one of the secondary through trains. I do not mean secondary in the sense of an all stops mail train, but in the sense of one that would likely have had a stop about every 25 to 50 miles. You would be either in coach, which at that time did not have reclining seats, or in a section sleeper. These would be 6 axle heavyweights, although the term "heavyweight" was probably not in use at that time. "All steel" was the sign of a good train in the early 20's, maybe later, but probably all wood cars were gone by the time of your setting.

The train would be pulled by steam from Chicago to Croton-Harmon NY. From that point in it would be pulled by an electric engine. The power was through an underrunning third rail, so no overhead wire like the Pennsylvania had between Harrisburg and Penn Station.

As a proportion of income, travel was much more expensive at that time than now. Unless you were well off or a businessman traveling on expenses, a trip of this length would be considered a serious matter. Example point: My mother worked in Washington DC in the late 1930's for a total of about 2 years. She made two trips home to Jackson, Tenn. during that period. One was by bus. The other was by train. Her comment was she was not about to be in a bus on the mountain roads in the wintertime. The train would have also been somewhat to quite a bit faster than the bus in those days. Even so, the train was probably somewhat over 24 hours. This was also when you wrote letters for communication with your family. Long distance phone calls were a serious matter left for emergencies. The train trip was also done in coach. Sleeper was beyond the zone of considerationi due to cost.

 

[ehbowen]

Nancy:

The following information is from the September 1938 Official Guide of the Railways.

New York Central Train 22, the Lake Shore Limited, departed Chicago La Salle St. Station at 5:30 p.m. Central time and stopped in South Bend, IN (its 3rd regular stop) at 7:20 p.m. (that's the departure time). The LSL carried a dining car from Chicago to Toledo but if your character was frugal she would have eaten beforehand; at that time one could purchase a good dinner in a cafe for fifty cents but in a dining car you would be looking at 75c to a dollar for an equivalent meal. There was also a lounge car with a buffet-kitchen serving drinks and light meal items but it was probably reserved for first class (sleeper/parlor car; the LSL carried both) passengers. The diner, however, was open to all. The LSL arrived Toledo (where the diner was removed) at 11:38 p.m. and continued east to Buffalo, its 12th regular stop from South Bend, arriving at 5:37 a.m. There another dining car was attached to serve breakfast and lunch; this diner would stay on the train all the way into New York City. The train would pass through Rochester at 7:12 a.m., leave Albany at 12:30 p.m., and arrive Harmon where the engine swap Mr. Harris refers to would have been conducted at 2:33 p.m. The train would then be electrically operated on into New York's Grand Central Station, arriving at 3:30 p.m. Eastern time. (The switch from Central to Eastern time would have occurred between Waterloo, IN and Bryan, OH).

The Lake Shore Limited carried what the Guide refers to as "Deluxe reclining seat Coaches" between Chicago and New York. There was also the aforementioned dining cars and lounge car, as well as several sleepers; a couple of the sleepers were bound for Boston while some of the others came from Cleveland and Cincinnati. For the daytime run in New York state a couple of first-class parlor cars joined the consist, as well as a sleeper being operated as a parlor car.

I do not have detailed fare information from the period but if you estimate two cents a mile for coach you will be in the general ballpark; by that yardstick the fare from South Bend to New York City would be $17.51. A lower berth in the sleeping car would have been slightly more than double that cost, an upper berth slightly less than double. By comparison, a middle-class professional man with a good job could expect to take home about $100...a month. George is right; travel in the steam & steel era was not undertaken lightly by those not on a company expense account.

I hope this helps...and feel free to stop on by Streamliner Schedules sometime!

--------Eric H. Bowen

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Nancy:

The following information is from the September 1938 Official Guide of the Railways.

New York Central Train 22, the Lake Shore Limited, departed Chicago La Salle St. Station at 5:30 p.m. Central time and stopped in South Bend, IN (its 3rd regular stop) at 7:20 p.m. (that's the departure time). The LSL carried a dining car from Chicago to Toledo but if your character was frugal she would have eaten beforehand; at that time one could purchase a good dinner in a cafe for fifty cents but in a dining car you would be looking at 75c to a dollar for an equivalent meal. There was also a lounge car with a buffet-kitchen serving drinks and light meal items but it was probably reserved for first class (sleeper/parlor car; the LSL carried both) passengers. The diner, however, was open to all. The LSL arrived Toledo (where the diner was removed) at 11:38 p.m. and continued east to Buffalo, its 12th regular stop from South Bend, arriving at 5:37 a.m. There another dining car was attached to serve breakfast and lunch; this diner would stay on the train all the way into New York City. The train would pass through Rochester at 7:12 a.m., leave Albany at 12:30 p.m., and arrive Harmon where the engine swap Mr. Harris refers to would have been conducted at 2:33 p.m. The train would then be electrically operated on into New York's Grand Central Station, arriving at 3:30 p.m. Eastern time. (The switch from Central to Eastern time would have occurred between Waterloo, IN and Bryan, OH).

The Lake Shore Limited carried what the Guide refers to as "Deluxe reclining seat Coaches" between Chicago and New York. There was also the aforementioned dining cars and lounge car, as well as several sleepers; a couple of the sleepers were bound for Boston while some of the others came from Cleveland and Cincinnati. For the daytime run in New York state a couple of first-class parlor cars joined the consist, as well as a sleeper being operated as a parlor car.

I do not have detailed fare information from the period but if you estimate two cents a mile for coach you will be in the general ballpark; by that yardstick the fare from South Bend to New York City would be $17.51. A lower berth in the sleeping car would have been slightly more than double that cost, an upper berth slightly less than double. By comparison, a middle-class professional man with a good job could expect to take home about $100...a month. George is right; travel in the steam & steel era was not undertaken lightly by those not on a company expense account.

I hope this helps...and feel free to stop on by Streamliner Schedules sometime!

--------Eric H. Bowen

The things we take for granted, such as reclining seats. Some lines never did stop using that designation even long after every train had reclining seats.

Much the same can be said for air conditioning and also diesel power.

Most of these improvements, also including streamlining, began before WW 2 and picked up again after WW 2.

The trains which would be the last to receive reclining seats, air conditioning and diesel power would usually be multi stop locals, short distance etc. The railroads did prioritize and make most improvements to the busier trains first.

Some trains never were streamlined, however.

All generalizations, of course.

 

[ehbowen]

The things we take for granted, such as reclining seats. Some lines never did stop using that designation even long after every train had reclining seats.

Much the same can be said for air conditioning and also diesel power.

Most of these improvements, also including streamlining, began before WW 2 and picked up again after WW 2.

The trains which would be the last to receive reclining seats, air conditioning and diesel power would usually be multi stop locals, short distance etc. The railroads did prioritize and make most improvements to the busier trains first.

Some trains never were streamlined, however.

All generalizations, of course.

You do bring up one point that I neglected: The equipment listing shows that by September 1938 the Lake Shore Limited had been equipped with air conditioning throughout. So, as long as the air conditioning was working (not necessarily a given!), Nancy's character should have had a comfortable trip.