Trainorders tidbits (re BOS South Station; PPCs)

[Bob Dylan]

Couple of interesting items on trainorders:

1) South Station in Boston is now the Gov. Michael Dukakis South Station Transportation Center

2) in Jan. The Parlor Cars on the CS will all be pulled for maintence and "updating" for 4 months! According to the post there will NOT be a substitute car ( ie SSL or CCC) The LSAs will be reassigned to the Diner or Cafe Car!

This sounds ominous!Are the Bean counters on the loose again? Will they ever return???

 

[Paulus]

PPCs are a maintenance nightmare by all accounts and definitely not worth whatever incremental revenue comes in; they really ought to be gotten rid of.

 

[afigg]

Couple of interesting items on trainorders:

1) South Station in Boston is now the Gov. Michael Dukakis South Station Transportation Center

You don't have to go to trainorders for the news on the renaming of South Station. Progressive Railroading for example: Massachusetts renames South Station to honor former Gov. Dukakis.

I don't mind the South Station renaming too much because Dukakis was and is a strong supporter of passenger rail and transit. But the trend to rename existing train stations, tunnels, public buildings after politicians whose main accomplishments were that they got elected and held public office for a long time is getting out of hand. There is a effort to rename 30th Street Station after a Congressman most have forgotten about. There is a bill in Congress to rename DC Union Station after Harry S. Truman. Moynihan station in NYC. The Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel is now the Hugh L. Carey tunnel. And so on. Oh, just stop it.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I mostly agree but naming Union Station in Washington after President Truman would be appropriate since he was the last President that regularly traveled via Train while in office! ( just like naming the Wilmington,DE Station after Amtrak Joe Biden)

Most politicians should have sewage /wastewater plants or public restrooms named after them!!!

 

[yarrow]

be nice if amtrak would stop listing the ppc as part of the cs sleeping car trip if the cars will be gone for an extended period. i found the post on train orders interesting for the cost comparison of train vs plane vs cruise ship. the comparison wasn't exact but amtrak came out on the short end.

 

[CHamilton]

It's ironic that this year's Amtrak tree ornament features the PPC.

 

[benale]

The Pacific Parlour Car is the nicest amenity of long distance train travel. Of course you have to take The Coast Starlight to use it. The PPC is the one perk that really makes you feel like you are experiencing true first class service and the PPC has always been a highlight when traveling on the CS.

We have a trip planned for June on the CS. I really hope the refurbishing of these cars does only take four months and won't last into the summer. The PPC is truly a highlight and it would be a shame if they aren't re instated or the refurbishing lasts longer than expected. For many travelers the PPC is the crown jewel of Amtrak's long distance trains and a place where you really get first class service.

 

[seat38a]

Well I was planning on taking the CS in May. Hopping that the PPC will be back by then.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

PPCs are a maintenance nightmare by all accounts and definitely not worth whatever incremental revenue comes in; they really ought to be gotten rid of.

A 4664 Challenger is a maintenance nightmare. The Concorde was a maintenance nightmare. A Pacific Parlor Car is a maintenance worker's wet dream by comparison. Being under continuous political attack is likely to result in fewer and fewer amenities over time. As congress's perpetual whipping boy Amtrak will have a harder and harder time explaining the cost of replacing expensive curved windows and other low volume parts that the PPC's require. It's possible that this is seen as a chance for Amtrak to modify the design to allow less expensive maintenance in the future. Although I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last time we ever see the PPC's in regular service in any shape or form. As Amtrak's focus returns to further simplification and homogenization the PPC stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[Bob Dylan]

As was said, if you want to ride the CS with a PPC I'd suggest booking a trip before Jan.!!

Its beginning to look like these gems are due to be sold and put into a Museum or in a tourist train consist!!!

 

[fairviewroad]

As was said, if you want to ride the CS with a PPC I'd suggest booking a trip before Jan.!!

I must have missed the part where this "information" has been confirmed with any amount of certainty. The only "source"

seems to be a disgruntled poster on Trainorders who doesn't even bother to cite the source of his "information." I mean,

he doesn't even say he heard it from a crew member (who don't exactly have a 100% track record of accuracy). He simply

throws it out there.

That's not to say it won't happen. It's certainly plausible to say the PPC's will be removed in January for four months. But

let's not cite it as the gospel truth just yet.

 

[Bob Dylan]

You're post has some truth but the info was from the LSA in the PPC who will be reassigned to the Diner or Cafe during the time the PPCs are " out of service".

These jobs on the CS are by Seniority and highly sought by OBS.

Until Amtrak officially posts the info for sure it is rumor and gossip but if I was a Betting man I'd bet the over on this one!!

 

[Acela150]

Just like 30th Street is now the Jim Gray?? Beats the heck outta me what it got named. But guess what I'll always call it 30th Street.. Not some politicians name who had nothing to do with PHL. South Station will always be South Station to me. Although I do have a tremendous amount of respect for Gov. Dukakis.

 

[ronkstevens]

I have a bigger problem with the corporate sponsorship name changes than naming a station after an individual. If the station is named after an individual, the locals and regulars will continue to call it by the name they have known it for years, just like when buildings or airports are renamed.

The corporate renamings have the potential to confuse new or unfamiliar passengers. Where are they when they get off? What happens when the naming rights contract expires in 10 years? Will the name change again and confuse even more people? Does Jefferson Station leave you off in Jefferson University Hospital? How do I get to the convention center? But 8th street is going to be 8th street no matter what.

 

[C'Mon Fairview]

As was said, if you want to ride the CS with a PPC I'd suggest booking a trip before Jan.!!

I must have missed the part where this "information" has been confirmed with any amount of certainty. The only "source"

seems to be a disgruntled poster on Trainorders who doesn't even bother to cite the source of his "information." I mean,

he doesn't even say he heard it from a crew member (who don't exactly have a 100% track record of accuracy). He simply

throws it out there.

The poster runs the organization and site called The Coast Starlight Communities Network (www.coaststarlight.net). He's a pretty credible guy on CS matters. But don't let little facts like that get in the way of your enlightening rant.

 

[SanDiegan]

The naming of L.A. Metro stations is out of control. A subway station is being named after a county supervisor who made sure no local transportation sales tax revenue could be used for subway construction for two decades !

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hey, politicans have no shame! They show up all the time @ dedications and ribbon cuttings for projects they voted against,! The Republicans in Congress are especially good @ this!!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

A couple years ago Amtrak's "Big Plan" called for the PPCs to remain in service through at least 2018 with the idea by then Superliner 3s of some kind would be in the works. They are canatnkerous old dogs but being Budd products with the right care they can be kept happy and going; the big problem is they need so many custom made parts, such as glass. Perhaps the renovation will "modernize" them to where other aspects of the car can use off the shelf parts. And the interiors while nice are getting a touch long in the tooth.

 

[amamba]

I used to live in a second story apartment. Outside the window was a Dukakis for president campaign sticker on a streetlight pole. At eye level (second story). It was pretty well faded considering I lived there from

2005-2009. It will always be a great mystery to me how that bumper sticker ended up there. Oh well spookier things have happened for sure in Salem other than the sticker.

 

[CHamilton]

Oh well spookier things have happened for sure in Salem other than the sticker.

Witch things might those have been?

 

[oldtimer]

Oh well spookier things have happened for sure in Salem other than the sticker.

Witch things might those have been?

Maybe someone "hung"it there as a trial to see if it would float. Well, I have more pressing things to do! :help:

 

[oldtimer]

PPCs are a maintenance nightmare by all accounts and definitely not worth whatever incremental revenue comes in; they really ought to be gotten rid of.

I can tell you from experience that the now PPC's were a PITA to work on, no spare parts, some work spaces were harder to access than any aircraft that I have worked on. I was glad when those pieces of crap fine examples of Budd engineering left for overhaul and the West Coast.

 

[PRR 60]

Just like 30th Street is now the Jim Gray?? Beats the heck outta me what it got named. But guess what I'll always call it 30th Street.. Not some politicians name who had nothing to do with PHL. South Station will always be South Station to me. Although I do have a tremendous amount of respect for Gov. Dukakis.

30th Street has not been renamed - yet. Plus, if it happens, it will be William Gray, not Jim. Jim is a former sports commentator for NBC.

As for the PPC, it must be remembered that almost exactly a year ago, the PPC's and the long distance train's biggest advocate in the Amtrak executive suite retired. At least part of the reason was conflict with Joe Boardman over the style of service on the long distance trains. It was a battle which he knew was lost. I won't speculate as to whether that was a factor in his rather rapid departure (rapid compared to a planned retirement), but is seems like it. Since his departure, Amtrak has been peeling the LD onion with removal of one little thing after another. If this multi-month "rehab" of the PCC's is true, and IF the rehab extends out to infinity (as many fear), then this might be one more step in the process of reducing perks on the LD's.

Make no mistake, Joe Boardman is no fan of the long distance services, at least not financially. Listen closely to exactly what he says. He wants every dime of the LD loses to be subsidized by someone other than Amtrak. He does not want to use any of the "profits" from the NEC to support the LD's (something that is happening now). With the state-supported trains nearly self sufficient, he envisions a three-part system - The NEC making money (allegedly) that is used for the NEC only (with additional capital grants for state-of-good-repair and other needs), the state trains being paid by the states or others (ops and capital), and the LD's fully subsidized by the feds or others. Basically, he has told DOT and Congress that if they want the LD's, they have to pay for the LD's, not just pay for the LD's after the NEC "profits" are applied. We'll see what happens.

 

[yarrow]

Just like 30th Street is now the Jim Gray?? Beats the heck outta me what it got named. But guess what I'll always call it 30th Street.. Not some politicians name who had nothing to do with PHL. South Station will always be South Station to me. Although I do have a tremendous amount of respect for Gov. Dukakis.

30th Street has not been renamed - yet. Plus, if it happens, it will be William Gray, not Jim. Jim is a former sports commentator for NBC.

As for the PPC, it must be remembered that almost exactly a year ago, the PPC's and the long distance train's biggest advocate in the Amtrak executive suite retired. At least part of the reason was conflict with Joe Boardman over the style of service on the long distance trains. It was a battle which he knew was lost. I won't speculate as to whether that was a factor in his rather rapid departure (rapid compared to a planned retirement), but is seems like it. Since his departure, Amtrak has been peeling the LD onion with removal of one little thing after another. If this multi-month "rehab" of the PCC's is true, and IF the rehab extends out to infinity (as many fear), then this might be one more step in the process of reducing perks on the LD's.

Make no mistake, Joe Boardman is no fan of the long distance services, at least not financially. Listen closely to exactly what he says. He wants every dime of the LD loses to be subsidized by someone other than Amtrak. He does not want to use any of the "profits" from the NEC to support the LD's (something that is happening now). With the state-supported trains nearly self sufficient, he envisions a three-part system - The NEC making money (allegedly) that is used for the NEC only (with additional capital grants for state-of-good-repair and other needs), the state trains being paid by the states or others (ops and capital), and the LD's fully subsidized by the feds or others. Basically, he has told DOT and Congress that if they want the LD's, they have to pay for the LD's, not just pay for the LD's after the NEC "profits" are applied. We'll see what happens.

alan burden used post on this forum interesting analyses demonstrating that sleeper passengers made money for amtrak, iirc. i wish he or someone would repost those as amtrak seems to be trying to drive away sleeper pax

 

[PRR 60]

alan burden used post on this forum interesting analyses demonstrating that sleeper passengers made money for amtrak, iirc. i wish he or someone would repost those as amtrak seems to be trying to drive away sleeper pax

Amtrak's current management will argue that the changes are not driving away any passengers. Amtrak is blaming the current issues with long distance train ridership on host railroad delays. It's a great excuse, and it might even have some validity. It also gives Amtrak management convenient cover to not assign any loss of ridership to the reduction in on board amenities.

Personally, I do not find the loss of amenities to be big issues with the exception of the reduced number and variety of dining car menu options. I typically ride an LD train once a year, one way, for one or at most two nights. I can live with the limited menu. If I were traveling for a longer duration (dare I say round-trip transcon) or more frequently than once a year, having to select from that same menu over and over and over would wear thin pretty quickly.