Trip Advice Needed

[Kramerica]

My wife and I are planning our trip for Summer 2008. We've ridden Amtrak once, the Empire Builder between SEA and MKE. See the trip report here:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?showtopic=21268

We've decided that we'd like to see San Francisco and also rent a car to make a loop from there along the coast up to Portland, then back south along a more inland route. Initially we're planning on taking the California Zephyr to EMY (and then Thruway to Ferry Building), staying in SF for a few days without a car, and then renting the car, doing the loop, and flying back home from SFO. We're planning on getting a roomette on the CZ.

But now I've been thinking about maybe taking the train both ways. But I'd like to take a different route home. There are two ideas in my mind. One is to take the CS south to LAX and the SWC back to Chicago. The other is to take the CS north and then take the EB home. What do you recommend?

Here are some considerations and questions I have:

- Which direction should I take the trains? MKE to PDX to EMY to CHI to MKE, or reverse it? MKE to CHI to EMY to LAX to CHI to MKE, or reverse it? Also, if I do end up flying one way, which way should I take the CZ? Eastbound or westbound?

- If taking the northern loop, should I try to make the CS/EB connection in PDX, or should I plan on spending a day in Seattle or Portland? Look at my previous Amtrak experience; I want to avoid the Pasco/Klamuth Falls bus ride at all costs.

- If I do spend that day in the Pacific NW, should I take the PDX spur or the SEA spur of the EB? I've taken the EB out of SEA, so I'd like to see the EB out of PDX. But then again, I'd also like to see the CS between the two. Any thoughts?

- My only Amtrak experience is on the EB. What are the differences in train comforts and services I can expect on these other trains? Food service, lounges, age of rolling stock, etc. From my readings here, it sounds like the EB is the best train.

- What days of the week would be best for travel? We're planning on mid-June and taking one workweek, the two weekends, plus 2-3 days either side, for a total 11-12 days.

Thanks in advance. I'm really looking forward to your comments.

 

[George Harris]

As to you tour within the city of San Francisco: Skip the rent car that day or those days, depending on how long you plan to wander around the city. It will be more liability than benefit. Parking in San Francisco is both limited and expensive. The bus system is very comprehensive and well used by tourists. Many of the routes are electric trolley buses. Then there is also the Streetcar that runs along Fisherman's Wharf. Most of the systems routing, schedules and fares available on their web sites.

Also, there are dedicated buses that meet the trains in Emeryville to several points in San Francisco.

 

[gswager]

My wife and I are planning our trip for Summer 2008. We've ridden Amtrak once, the Empire Builder between SEA and MKE. See the trip report here:
http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?showtopic=21268

We've decided that we'd like to see San Francisco and also rent a car to make a loop from there along the coast up to Portland, then back south along a more inland route. Initially we're planning on taking the California Zephyr to EMY (and then Thruway to Ferry Building), staying in SF for a few days without a car, and then renting the car, doing the loop, and flying back home from SFO. We're planning on getting a roomette on the CZ.

But now I've been thinking about maybe taking the train both ways. But I'd like to take a different route home. There are two ideas in my mind. One is to take the CS south to LAX and the SWC back to Chicago. The other is to take the CS north and then take the EB home. What do you recommend?

SWC is a desert view along with mountainous view in northern New Mexico. SWC is one of the best on-time performance.

On CS, you will get an excellent ocean view along Pacific Ocean if the southbound CS is on-time. If CS is chronic late (remember that June is the longest daylight month), then I recommend to ride to San Luis Obispo, get off the train and stay overnight. On the next day, board Pacific Surfliner to get a guarantee daylight view. Northbound CS is the best way to do that.

Here are some considerations and questions I have:
- Which direction should I take the trains? MKE to PDX to EMY to CHI to MKE, or reverse it? MKE to CHI to EMY to LAX to CHI to MKE, or reverse it? Also, if I do end up flying one way, which way should I take the CZ? Eastbound or westbound?

- If taking the northern loop, should I try to make the CS/EB connection in PDX, or should I plan on spending a day in Seattle or Portland? Look at my previous Amtrak experience; I want to avoid the Pasco/Klamuth Falls bus ride at all costs.

In Portland, I strongly recommend to stay overnight to avoid the bus route. Plus, Portland has excellent public transportation, including light rails and the downtown area is very clean and vibrant.

As for Seattle, someone will chime in for you.

- If I do spend that day in the Pacific NW, should I take the PDX spur or the SEA spur of the EB? I've taken the EB out of SEA, so I'd like to see the EB out of PDX. But then again, I'd also like to see the CS between the two. Any thoughts?

SEA route- mountainous scenic, including the tunnel.

PDX route- Columbia river

- My only Amtrak experience is on the EB. What are the differences in train comforts and services I can expect on these other trains? Food service, lounges, age of rolling stock, etc. From my readings here, it sounds like the EB is the best train.

Only EB and Autotrain has cook to order meals while other long distance trains have convection ovens to warm the food, just like the airlines.

All routes that you're planning on are the same fleet- Superliner, a double decker. Almost all of the east coast routes are single deck due to low clearance tunnels.

- What days of the week would be best for travel? We're planning on mid-June and taking one workweek, the two weekends, plus 2-3 days either side, for a total 11-12 days.

During summer season is in high demand month, I recommend to take in middle of the week. Best way is to find the comparison in price on online reservation on different dates. I recommend to book several months in advance because most of the sleeper rooms is quickly sold-out, esp. with group travel.

Thanks in advance. I'm really looking forward to your comments.

You're welcome!

-gs

 

[Kramerica]

As to you tour within the city of San Francisco: Skip the rent car that day or those days, depending on how long you plan to wander around the city. It will be more liability than benefit. Parking in San Francisco is both limited and expensive. The bus system is very comprehensive and well used by tourists. Many of the routes are electric trolley buses. Then there is also the Streetcar that runs along Fisherman's Wharf. Most of the systems routing, schedules and fares available on their web sites.
Also, there are dedicated buses that meet the trains in Emeryville to several points in San Francisco.

We were planning on taking the Amtrak Thruway service into San Francisco. I priced it up last week, and it was actually free! Is that usually the case? ($580 for two people from MKE to EMY with or without the Thruway service to the Ferry Building.)

We're definitely going to skip the car rental while in the city. The public rail transit there looks pretty good. Anyone have any suggestions for hotels in SF close to BART or the streetcars? I did a cursory search and found that everything was very expensive. Also, on a bigger tangent, would it be better to visit SF during the week or on a weekend?

We were in SF for three nights in 2004 on our two week LV-Death Valley-Yosemite-Sequoia-SF-SLO-LA-SD-LV loop. The rental car was a definite liability in the city.

 

[sechs]

The bus isn't free; you have to have a ticket for it, and that requires that you had ridden the train. Last time that I saw a price, it was $3.10; but the thruway gets cheaper the bigger the accompanying train ticket gets. So, it's almost free.

If you haven't taken the Empire Builder, I think that taking the Coast Starlight up to SEA or PDX is a good choice. If you're actually planning on doing some touristing, I think that Seattle has a slight edge there. Neither city would really require you to rent a car. It's better the save the environment, anyway.

 

[the_traveler]

You could (if you want) take the CS all the way to SEA. Then on the return, take a Cascade to PDX to connect with the EB out the Columbia River back to CHI!

 

[Kramerica]

The bus isn't free; you have to have a ticket for it, and that requires that you had ridden the train. Last time that I saw a price, it was $3.10; but the thruway gets cheaper the bigger the accompanying train ticket gets. So, it's almost free.

I know we'd need a ticket for it. But when I checked fares two weeks ago, it was $580 with or without the bus, so I guess free is as cheap as the bus can get! I figured it would be at least $10/person.

If you haven't taken the Empire Builder, I think that taking the Coast Starlight up to SEA or PDX is a good choice. If you're actually planning on doing some touristing, I think that Seattle has a slight edge there. Neither city would really require you to rent a car. It's better the save the environment, anyway.

We were just in Seattle last summer and took the EB back to MKE. (But we were bussed from MSP to MKE!) So I wouldn't mind doing that one again, probably from Portland. Sounds like the bad thing about that is our sleeper would be in the last car of the train.

If we do decide to go through Portland, we'd probably stay one day, just so I can eliminate the possibility of the Klamuth Falls to Pasco bus ride.

 

[Kramerica]

If taking the northern loop, should I try to make the CS/EB connection in PDX, or should I plan on spending a day in Seattle or Portland? Look at my previous Amtrak experience; I want to avoid the Pasco/Klamuth Falls bus ride at all costs.

In Portland, I strongly recommend to stay overnight to avoid the bus route. Plus, Portland has excellent public transportation, including light rails and the downtown area is very clean and vibrant.

I've decided that if we do take the EB home, we'll go from PDX (with an overnight there), both because of timing and because I'd like to see the Columbia River. I do have one concern though: Does the EB consist always have the PDX sleeper(s) on the back of the train? I've read in places that being the last car can make for not a smooth ride. Also, is there only one PDX sleeper, or are there more at times?

My only Amtrak experience is on the EB. What are the differences in train comforts and services I can expect on these other trains? Food service, lounges, age of rolling stock, etc. From my readings here, it sounds like the EB is the best train.

All routes that you're planning on are the same fleet- Superliner, a double decker. Almost all of the east coast routes are single deck due to low clearance tunnels.

What about refurbished cars? It sounds like the EB has refurbished sleepers and the other western LD trains occasionally have a refurbished sleeper. How far along are they in refurbishing them all? Were any of the coaches or lounges refurbished?

 

[user 1215]

As to your second query, the Empire Builder strives to maintain the best equipment. They are essentially the flagship of Amtrak long distance service. They have special dining, keep up the cars, and try to provide the best service.

The AutoTrain is the other 'flagship'. But riding it is very restrictive and specialized.

So, money tends to feed those LD trains first, and then the rest in order of popularity, I guess...

 

[George Harris]

We were planning on taking the Amtrak Thruway service into San Francisco. I priced it up last week, and it was actually free! Is that usually the case? ($580 for two people from MKE to EMY with or without the Thruway service to the Ferry Building.)

If not free, fairly nominal. I have done it about 3 times to/from Fresno.

We're definitely going to skip the car rental while in the city. The public rail transit there looks pretty good. Anyone have any suggestions for hotels in SF close to BART or the streetcars? I did a cursory search and found that everything was very expensive. Also, on a bigger tangent, would it be better to visit SF during the week or on a weekend?

Can't help on hotels. Everything in SF tends to be very expensive. The thruway bus into SF that is destined for the Ferry Building makes its first stop in front of the Hilton. (I think it's Hilton. By that time it arrives all I am usually knowing is that it is a hotel with taxis handy.) Transit service is about as good on weekends as weekdays. There are more tourists on weekends, but in the summer there are tourists wandering around seven days a week. On weekdays do not plan to be moving around during rush hours. Despite overwhelmingly available public transit there are still a large number of one ***** per car cars on the road in rush hour and any street that can conceivably be an approach to the Bay Bridge simply congeals for about one to two hours every afternoon.

 

[AlanB]

If taking the northern loop, should I try to make the CS/EB connection in PDX, or should I plan on spending a day in Seattle or Portland? Look at my previous Amtrak experience; I want to avoid the Pasco/Klamuth Falls bus ride at all costs.

In Portland, I strongly recommend to stay overnight to avoid the bus route. Plus, Portland has excellent public transportation, including light rails and the downtown area is very clean and vibrant.

I've decided that if we do take the EB home, we'll go from PDX (with an overnight there), both because of timing and because I'd like to see the Columbia River. I do have one concern though: Does the EB consist always have the PDX sleeper(s) on the back of the train? I've read in places that being the last car can make for not a smooth ride. Also, is there only one PDX sleeper, or are there more at times?

I've never seen or heard of the Portland section having more than one sleeper, which therefore pretty much assures that your sleeper will be the last car of the train. And yes, the last car of the train does seem to ride a bit rougher than the rest and it can be a bit noiser too since you don't have another car to muffle the track sounds on the rear door.

What about refurbished cars? It sounds like the EB has refurbished sleepers and the other western LD trains occasionally have a refurbished sleeper. How far along are they in refurbishing them all?

First to answer your question, we need to talk about the Superliner sleepers. Amtrak placed two different orders for Superliner cars that IIRC were about 15 years apart. The older cars are referred to as Superliner I's, while the newer cars are called Superliner II's. The sleeper remanufacturing program only applied to the older Superliner I sleepers and did not include the Superliner II sleeping cars.

Of the 58 Superliner I sleeping cars still in service, 41 made it through the remanufacturing program prior to it's being cancelled. I assume that it's been cancelled, since it did not appear in this year's budget. Only on the EB are you supposed to be guaranteed one of these rebuilt sleepers. That may change next April with the planned relaunch of the Coast Starlight, although I'm not positive about that yet.

The remainder of the routes are covered by the 17 un-rebuilt Superliner I's, the 50 Superliner II sleepers, as well as whatever rebuilt Superliner I's aren't needed to cover the Empire Builder.