And Amherst is unhappy. http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/12/train_service_through_amherst.html
Vermonter CT River Line Reroute set for December 29
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I tried to post a comment on this site regarding the numerous fact errors in this article regarding the train service... I was unable to. Anyone else, feel free.
SubwayNut
Conductor
Then there's this article about beginning construction on the Holyoak rail platform that claims the Vermonter will make its inogural trip on December 21, not the 28th http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/12/holyoke_to_begin_32_million_co.html#incart_related_stories
B
Bus Nut
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When I lived in Amherst, MA in 2004 it was actually easier on the bus system to get to downtown Northampton from UMass or downtown Amherst than it was to get to the Amherst Amtrak station, a truly uninspiring station well off the main drag that you basically have to walk to. (Amherst is a sprawling old New England farming town, and while you can walk everywhere (eventually) the hills demand calves of steel, and of course in the icy winter you might decide to make like townie Emily Dickenson and just stay indoors.) I never actually bothered taking Amtrak from Amherst station the entire time I was there because of the time table and the trouble moving luggage from the station and took intercity buses instead.
And Neroden, that bus between Northampton and Amherst loses time two ways, first by going into the Hampshire Mall (which is an important stop) and secondly and more crucially on the two-lane, over-crowded road between the two towns.
Parallel to that road there used to be a rail line between Amherst and Northampton which is now a rails-to-trails bikeway. It's a little long for a casual bicyclist so I only ventured as far as the ice cream joint on the bikeway, heh. Rails to trails pretty much ensures they won't convert it into a bus rapid transit transitway any time soon, though.
One more thing, most UMass Amherst (North of Amherst downtown but maybe closest to the Amtrak) students hail from Eastern Massachusetts and take Peter Pan or Greyhound home if they don't have a car. Northampton is home to Smith College which probably pulls students from a much wider geographic area. I'd be very surprised if ridership from Northampton easily surpasses Amherst. Amherst College (in downtown Amherst) is very rich kids who don't use public transit. Hampshire College (south of Amherst downtown) kids ride the heck out of the bus and for the reasons I gave above will actually find Northampton station more accessible than Amherst station.
And Neroden, that bus between Northampton and Amherst loses time two ways, first by going into the Hampshire Mall (which is an important stop) and secondly and more crucially on the two-lane, over-crowded road between the two towns.
Parallel to that road there used to be a rail line between Amherst and Northampton which is now a rails-to-trails bikeway. It's a little long for a casual bicyclist so I only ventured as far as the ice cream joint on the bikeway, heh. Rails to trails pretty much ensures they won't convert it into a bus rapid transit transitway any time soon, though.
One more thing, most UMass Amherst (North of Amherst downtown but maybe closest to the Amtrak) students hail from Eastern Massachusetts and take Peter Pan or Greyhound home if they don't have a car. Northampton is home to Smith College which probably pulls students from a much wider geographic area. I'd be very surprised if ridership from Northampton easily surpasses Amherst. Amherst College (in downtown Amherst) is very rich kids who don't use public transit. Hampshire College (south of Amherst downtown) kids ride the heck out of the bus and for the reasons I gave above will actually find Northampton station more accessible than Amherst station.
B
Bus Nut
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When the Holyoke Amtrak station opens there will be another option for Mt Holyoke students.
Google Maps bus from Mt Holyoke College to Holyoke Amtrak.
Mount Holyoke are mostly rich kids with cars like Amherst College but there are a number of scholarship students who use public transportation.
Google Maps bus from Mt Holyoke College to Holyoke Amtrak.
Mount Holyoke are mostly rich kids with cars like Amherst College but there are a number of scholarship students who use public transportation.
neroden
Engineer
Amherst kids might well use Amtrak even if they don't use public transit in general. (And they might take business class, frankly.) Rich kids at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Brown, Pomona, Harvey Mudd, Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr, Haverford, etc. take trains. (And at Harvard and Columbia they take metros!)
I went to Carleton College, which is a top-tier liberal arts college like Amherst... and Carleton regularly fills shuttle buses to Minneapolis. Upper-crust Cornell students take buses, though they have a special 3-across all-leather-seats business-class bus...
Rich kids don't automatically turn their noses up at bus shuttles, if they're *convenient*. If they involve a three-block walking connection, on the other hand... well, then maybe they do turn their noses up at them.
Do you have a specific reason to think that Amherst College differs from the rest of the upper-crust schools in this regard? Is there something particular about the *sort* of rich kids it attracts?
I would expect the Amherst College ridership (perhaps heading back to their parents' mansions in Connecticut or Long Island) to be the main loss here. Of course, they might just catch taxis to the train station.
Mt. Holyoke has the same issue as Amherst here; the bus doesn't stop at the train station.
Shuttle buses direct from the college to the train station *would* be patronized even by the rich kids.
I went to Carleton College, which is a top-tier liberal arts college like Amherst... and Carleton regularly fills shuttle buses to Minneapolis. Upper-crust Cornell students take buses, though they have a special 3-across all-leather-seats business-class bus...
Rich kids don't automatically turn their noses up at bus shuttles, if they're *convenient*. If they involve a three-block walking connection, on the other hand... well, then maybe they do turn their noses up at them.
Do you have a specific reason to think that Amherst College differs from the rest of the upper-crust schools in this regard? Is there something particular about the *sort* of rich kids it attracts?
I would expect the Amherst College ridership (perhaps heading back to their parents' mansions in Connecticut or Long Island) to be the main loss here. Of course, they might just catch taxis to the train station.
Mt. Holyoke has the same issue as Amherst here; the bus doesn't stop at the train station.
Shuttle buses direct from the college to the train station *would* be patronized even by the rich kids.
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B
Bus Nut
Guest
^^ You can click on "more options and times" to see Route 29, only 22 min from S Hadley Ctr to Dwight/Main.
Neroden, if they are catching taxis to the train station then taxi service in Amherst is less of a dodgy proposition than it used to be, lol.
Let's see, hardly any taxis, no parking to speak of, one a day departures ...
Bit of a far cry from being right on NEC.
I'm sure some Amherst kids were taking the train to VT for yucks but it still totally blows and frankly growing up in NE all the rich kids I knew who were showing off their winter sunburns drove to VT.
I finally rode the Vermonter this year (post VT improvements). It was very nice and there were a lot of rich kids on board, for sure. But in the overall scheme of things Amherst was not a major Amtrak station and much greater multitudes were taking other modes in other directions. That's just fact.
Again, things may have changed with Uber but you could hardly get a cab in Amherst for love or money some days (some people I knew were known to get rides from pizza drivers, you had to buy a pizza of course) but there was a VERY robust door to door shuttle service to Bradley Airport. Just sayin'.
Neroden, if they are catching taxis to the train station then taxi service in Amherst is less of a dodgy proposition than it used to be, lol.
Let's see, hardly any taxis, no parking to speak of, one a day departures ...
Bit of a far cry from being right on NEC.
I'm sure some Amherst kids were taking the train to VT for yucks but it still totally blows and frankly growing up in NE all the rich kids I knew who were showing off their winter sunburns drove to VT.
I finally rode the Vermonter this year (post VT improvements). It was very nice and there were a lot of rich kids on board, for sure. But in the overall scheme of things Amherst was not a major Amtrak station and much greater multitudes were taking other modes in other directions. That's just fact.
Again, things may have changed with Uber but you could hardly get a cab in Amherst for love or money some days (some people I knew were known to get rides from pizza drivers, you had to buy a pizza of course) but there was a VERY robust door to door shuttle service to Bradley Airport. Just sayin'.
neroden
Engineer
Oh, I'm sure Smith will provide more riders than Amherst. It just seems worth it to try to lure the Amherst College riders back, given that many are probably willing to pay high prices for comfortable service. If their parents have homes in Long Island, for instance, driving home kind of stinks, and flying has ridiculous overhead in waiting, while train service is pretty efficient if the Vermonter runs on time. (Change trains at NY Penn.)
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Pretty big difference in size between UMass Amherst and Smith College. Smith College has approx 2,600 undergraduates and 100 graduate students (source wikipedia).
UMass Amherst Student body stats: 22,000 undergraduates; 4,500 from out of state (NY, NJ, CT are the top 3 states); 6,140 graduate students.
With that many UMass students, surprising that the Amherst stop does not have more passengers. Maybe the very slow trip time from Amherst to SPG pushed many UMass students to take the bus. Once the funded track upgrades are complete for both the CT River Line, the SPG-NHV corridor with more competitive trip times against bus service and there are multiple daily trains to Holyoke and Northampton (most providing connections at either SPG, Hartford, NHV), the 2 new stops and SPG should see major ridership growth.
Just in time for the rerouted service through Northampton, MA, Cliff and Samantha have started a new Facebook group for the Vermonter. https://www.facebook.com/groups/AmtrakVermonter/
neroden
Engineer
I meant, Smith College (the new station is within a couple of blocks of the Smith College campus) will provide more riders than Amherst College (the old station is basically on the Amherst College campus). I wasn't referring to UMass Amherst at all. Sorry to be confusing.
Another poster has made a fairly good case that the new Northampton station is just as convenient for UMass students as the Amherst station (in short, neither was really terribly convenient, so it's trading one inconvenience for another). He also said that most UMass students are from the *east*, so the Vermonter's running the wrong way for them.
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jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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Maybe MBTA should consider running a couple of trains to Brattleboro via Palmer, Amherst! They might get quite some ridership if the "east" hypothesis is true and the train has a reasonable runtime.
neroden
Engineer
Massachusetts is catching its breath after the drawn-out negotiations to purchase Framingham-Worcester! Maybe in a few years when they start pushing for more service on the "Inland Route" again they'll consider talking to CSX about this.... because, of course, CSX would be the problem, NECR would probably be fine with it.
Palmer-Worcester is pretty darn twisty. I wonder if MassDOT would ever consider building a bypass, or getting tilt trains.
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Press coverage of the inaugural train on the new routing yesterday, December 22.
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/12/knowledge_corridor_special_massachusetts_amtrak_rail.html
http://www.recorder.com/home/14870561-95/vermonter-could-be-first-spike-in-path-of-new-rail-future-or-not
http://www.recorder.com/home/14921480-95/with-amtraks-arrival-safety-at-forefront
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/12/knowledge_corridor_special_massachusetts_amtrak_rail.html
http://www.recorder.com/home/14870561-95/vermonter-could-be-first-spike-in-path-of-new-rail-future-or-not
http://www.recorder.com/home/14921480-95/with-amtraks-arrival-safety-at-forefront
FreeskierInVT
Lead Service Attendant
Just got my tickets for the last southbound and northbound train next Sunday. I've always wanted to do a mini day trip to AMM, finally doing it on the last day of service
acelafan
Conductor
Dad and I are doing Brattleboro to Springfield and back today. Nearly full train headed north. The Palmer move does chew up a good chunk of time.
The conductor on 56 noticed our out & back trip and we chatted for a few. He is throwing the last switch at Palmer on Sunday, to which he is grateful. No more trudging through the snow!
The conductor on 56 noticed our out & back trip and we chatted for a few. He is throwing the last switch at Palmer on Sunday, to which he is grateful. No more trudging through the snow!
acelafan
Conductor
Dad and I are doing Brattleboro to Springfield and back today. Nearly full train headed north. The Palmer move does chew up a good chunk of time.
The conductor on 56 noticed our out & back trip and we chatted for a few. He is throwing the last switch at Palmer on Sunday, to which he is grateful. No more trudging through the snow!
The conductor on 56 noticed our out & back trip and we chatted for a few. He is throwing the last switch at Palmer on Sunday, to which he is grateful. No more trudging through the snow!
FreeskierInVT
Lead Service Attendant
Which conductor was it? I've chatted with a few of the Vermonter conductors over the last few months, and they are all very much looking forward to the reroute.
acelafan
Conductor
He was a younger guy, 30s, 6 ft tall or so with black rimmed glasses. Very friendly, as was all the crew on that train. Even the engineer chatted with a small boy & his mom as he was working his way to the cab car.
FreeskierInVT
Lead Service Attendant
Anyone going to be out taking pics of the last trains rolling through Palmer/Amherst/etc tomorrow? (well today really)
SubwayNut
Conductor
Well I'm sitting next to FreeskierInVT. The northbound Vermonter has left the old route for the last time. We're approaching Brattleboro. The train is packed 263 people, we were on time until Springfield. The photographers were out in droves in Palmer and at Amhurst where we left 4 minutes late as some people asked the conductors to pose under a station sign.
acelafan
Conductor
Thanks for the report, sounds like you had a good trip!
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