Videos/Pictures of Combined Zephyr/Pioneer/Desert Wind?

[Cal]

Saw it mentioned in another thread. I know I've seen some pictures/video of it before, but going through Youtube can be hard. Anyone know of any videos/pictures of the combined train?

IIRC, didn't it have 15ish superliners and 3+ F40's to help get it through the mountains?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I presume you want pictures of the train that split in Salt Lake City. When I traveled on the Pioneer the split was in Denver and then my train when north towards Cheyenne. The Salt Lake Split was before my travel occurred on the western train.

 

[jis]

Saw it mentioned in another thread. I know I've seen some pictures/video of it before, but going through Youtube can be hard. Anyone know of any videos/pictures of the combined train?

IIRC, didn't it have 15ish superliners and 3+ F40's to help get it through the mountains?

It had 15 Superliners between Chicago and Utah when I traveled by it back in early -80s when the split took place in Ogden and the train was named San Francisco Zephyr/Pioneer/Desert Wind (5/25/35, 6/26/36).

 

[Maglev]

The day in May, 1994, I rode the eastbound California Zephyr, the Pioneer was not operating, but we added cars and locomotives from the Desert Wind in Salt Lake City. The combination of these photos shows the whole train:

 

[Cal]

What was the average consist, in order? Was the entirety of the Pioneer and Desert Wind added, or just select cars?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

As point out there was several different versions of this train. When I did the split in Denver it was the full train set traveling between Seattle and Chicago. The locomotives may of been split or added in Denver, but the number of cars traveling on the Pioneer did go all the way.

My combination train east of Denver had two open dinners. The service time were off a bit and the announcement stated which dinner was open now, and to wait for an announcement for the other dinner.

 

[Agent]

Here's a video posted by Bobby Harvey Video Productions that shows the California Zephyr arriving in Ottumwa, Iowa in July 1996. The description says it has cars from the Desert Wind and Pioneer.

 

[Willbridge]

I have a couple of consists from the tri-weekly period when the Pioneer ran to Denver.

 

[Willbridge]

And here's a 1990 consist from Rail Travel News.

 

[jiml]

In the Superliner era, there were 3 points where the consist was split westbound. Initially (and sporadically thereafter) the 3 trains were split in Ogden, UT. I experienced this only once in several trips. If the Pioneer was at the back of the train departing Chicago, it would usually leave at Denver and run on the UP, with the CZ and DW then dividing at SLC. Two diners weren't uncommon, with one continuing to LA with the Wind and the other to Emeryville with the Zephyr. In off-peak seasons only one diner operated Chicago to SLC, with the Desert Wind diner added there. The ex-Santa Fe hi-level diners were a treat, although many preferred the larger menu offered in the main Superliner diner. If head-end MHC cars were plentiful the consist could easily stretch to 18+ total with 4 engines. Some stations required as many as 3 stops.

 

[lstone19]

From my own trip on 5 CHI-OAK on 9/9/83:


At this time, the route was DEN-D&RGW-SLC-UP-OGD-SP-OAK. The D&RGW had reopened about a month earlier after being closed by the Thistle slide (5/6 had officially moved to the D&RGW route from the UP across Wyoming with the April time change but due to the slide, detoured on its old route until about a month before my trip). After SLC, it was north to Ogden and then the SP (using the WP route west from SLC was still in the future).

 

[Maglev]

From the photos posted above and my memory, the consist of train 6 in May, 1994, in Colorado, on a day the Pioneer was not operating:

Genesis Loco
Pepsi Can Loco
3 MHC
Baggage
Transdorm
Superliner II Sleeper (my car, forget the name)
Sleeper
Coach
Coach
Sightseer Lounge
Diner
Coach
Coach Baggage
Sleeper

As seen in the photo below of our train ascending the Sierras, there were two F40 locomotives until Salt Lake City. Also, they might have traded out the diner in SLC--the diner from Oakland failed at dinnertime, and we had sandwiches loaded in Reno; but food service was fine the next days. I think the MHC's went all the way to Chicago, and I vaguely recall that they might have been switched out before we entered the station.

 

[UserNameRequired]

The day in May, 1994, I rode the eastbound California Zephyr, the Pioneer was not operating, but we added cars and locomotives from the Desert Wind in Salt Lake City. The combination of these photos shows the whole train:View attachment 35592View attachment 35593

I am quite curious how you were able to get those pictures? Did Amtrak used to allow passengers to open the window in the door?

 

[Maglev]

I am quite curious how you were able to get those pictures? Did Amtrak used to allow passengers to open the window in the door?

It was not really allowed, but I think rules were a little more relaxed then. I stopped doing it after 9-11; transportation rules in general were tightened then.

On this trip, I also opened the door of my sleeper to let a passenger off when our SCA was nowhere to be found at the other passenger's stop.

 

[Bob Dylan]

It was not really allowed, but I think rules were a little more relaxed then. I stopped doing it after 9-11; transportation rules in general were tightened then.

On this trip, I also opened the door of my sleeper to let a passenger off when our SCA was nowhere to be found at the other passenger's stop.

I think that most of us back in the day( Pre 911 as was said) probably did the same when riding on Amtrak!

I plead "No contest " since the Statue of Limitations has run out on these "Crimes"!

 

[AngerPersonified]

Michael Palin's series Around the World in 80 Days from 1988 has him on the last episode going across America and he's on the Desert Wind/Cali Zephyr and it's a quite long train in that if you want video.

 

[basketmaker]

Did all three of them in the 80's. Remember the split was at SLC. The Pioneer was a pretty ride thru the Cascades. And the Desert Wind stopped for a few minutes in Vegas allowing enough time to run into the station to make a phone call (pre-cellphones) and drop (loose) a few quarters. And the Zephyr to Oakland with the warning to try not to linger too long in the station what there was of it. Got a cab to Union Plaza. Think I've got pictures (real ones) in the basement.

 

[Willbridge]

Did all three of them in the 80's. Remember the split was at SLC. The Pioneer was a pretty ride thru the Cascades. And the Desert Wind stopped for a few minutes in Vegas allowing enough time to run into the station to make a phone call (pre-cellphones) and drop (loose) a few quarters. And the Zephyr to Oakland with the warning to try not to linger too long in the station what there was of it. Got a cab to Union Plaza. Think I've got pictures (real ones) in the basement.

1988 =SLC - "Crossroads of the West" in the night.

 

[TC_NYC]

It's a shame Amtrak doesn't bring back the Pioneer/Zephyr/Desert Wind with the split at SLC since it would unlock a lot of unique city pairs that are really tough right now. For Instance trying to go Portland-Denver takes 2 nights now, Salt Lake City-Boise is impossible, Salt Lake City-Las Vegas is impossible and Salt Lake City-Los Angeles takes 2 nights. Having the train split en-route at SLC unlocks a lot more city pairs since every passenger isn't necessarily originating out of Chicago.

 

[Maglev]

When I rode, the Pioneer was combined at Denver (from the Museum of Railway Timetables, The Museum of Railway Timetables (timetables.org)) :




The consist the day I rode (May, 1994) included what I considered to a a new and interesting Transdorm in a Phase IV paint scheme. This remains the only time I have seen signs of significant graffiti on an Amtrak train. Photos were scarce and expensive in those days, so I rationed my exposures.

 

[Sullen Maximus]

It's a shame Amtrak doesn't bring back the Pioneer/Zephyr/Desert Wind with the split at SLC since it would unlock a lot of unique city pairs that are really tough right now. For Instance trying to go Portland-Denver takes 2 nights now, Salt Lake City-Boise is impossible, Salt Lake City-Las Vegas is impossible and Salt Lake City-Los Angeles takes 2 nights. Having the train split en-route at SLC unlocks a lot more city pairs since every passenger isn't necessarily originating out of Chicago.

This is currently what SLC, Boise, and Las Vegas are trying to get. There is no north-south lines between Chicago and California.

I think they need to bring back the desert wind from Denver to Vegas hitting SLC around midday. Right now, the Zephyr is the only option for SLC And it's times are terrible! Departing at 1130pm westbound, and 330am eastbound....

 

[Willbridge]

This is currently what SLC, Boise, and Las Vegas are trying to get. There is no north-south lines between Chicago and California.

I think they need to bring back the desert wind from Denver to Vegas hitting SLC around midday. Right now, the Zephyr is the only option for SLC And it's times are terrible! Departing at 1130pm westbound, and 330am eastbound....

When C.B. Hall and I worked on the 2008/9 proposals for a restored Pioneer we came up with a radical change to fit the contemporary operating environment. The original Pioneer was on a one night - two business day schedule, which eventually resulted in miserable times and/or missing SLC and/or delaying Train 6. What we concluded was best would be a two night - one business day schedule, the old UP Portland Rose or D&RGW Prospector pattern. It would either run via the Moffat Line or the Overland Route as an overnight SLC<>DEN train. On either route it would enter SLC. Credit Don Leap of the Oregon rail passengers with the extra touch, jiggling the eastbound on the Moffat Line to run from Fraser to Denver in daylight and from The Dalles to Portland in daylight.

The draft Overland departure from SLC to DEN was at 9:45 p.m., arrive Laramie 6:10 a.m., Cheyenne 7:40 a.m., Fort Collins 9:20 a.m., Boulder 10:45 a.m., Denver 11:45 a.m. Draft departure from DEN to SLC was at 7:30 p.m., depart Boulder 8:15 p.m., Fort Collins 9:25 p.m., Cheyenne 11:05 p.m., Laramie 12:35 a.m., arrive Salt Lake City 9:40 a.m.

The draft Moffat departure from SLC to DEN was at 5:25 p.m., arrive Provo 6:30 pm., Grand Junction 12:23 a.m., Glenwood Springs 2:10 a.m., Fraser-Winter Park 5:50 a.m., Denver 8:35 a.m. Draft departure from DEN to SLC was at 9:00 p.m., arrive Fraser-Winter Park 11:02 p.m., Glenwood Springs 2:48 a.m., Grand Junction 5:05 a.m., Provo 10:26 a.m., Salt Lake City 11:59 a.m.

I haven't worked the Desert Wind with this, but it looks like Salt Lake City<>Las Vegas would be a daylight trip. If extended to Los Angeles, it would ideally be overnight south of Las Vegas, to complement Brightline.

Our team's proposal, which included Idaho Thruway links to Sun Valley, West Yellowstone, and Grand Teton at Pocatello met the Amtrak 2009 study deadline but was ignored and omitted from the public comment section of their study. It and some other materials were later included in a supplement.

Pocatello in 2008 was ready to be a Thruway hub.

 

[Sullen Maximus]

When C.B. Hall and I worked on the 2008/9 proposals for a restored Pioneer we came up with a radical change to fit the contemporary operating environment. The original Pioneer was on a one night - two business day schedule, which eventually resulted in miserable times and/or missing SLC and/or delaying Train 6. What we concluded was best would be a two night - one business day schedule, the old UP Portland Rose or D&RGW Prospector pattern. It would either run via the Moffat Line or the Overland Route as an overnight SLC<>DEN train. On either route it would enter SLC. Credit Don Leap of the Oregon rail passengers with the extra touch, jiggling the eastbound on the Moffat Line to run from Fraser to Denver in daylight and from The Dalles to Portland in daylight.

The draft Overland departure from SLC to DEN was at 9:45 p.m., arrive Laramie 6:10 a.m., Cheyenne 7:40 a.m., Fort Collins 9:20 a.m., Boulder 10:45 a.m., Denver 11:45 a.m. Draft departure from DEN to SLC was at 7:30 p.m., depart Boulder 8:15 p.m., Fort Collins 9:25 p.m., Cheyenne 11:05 p.m., Laramie 12:35 a.m., arrive Salt Lake City 9:40 a.m.

The draft Moffat departure from SLC to DEN was at 5:25 p.m., arrive Provo 6:30 pm., Grand Junction 12:23 a.m., Glenwood Springs 2:10 a.m., Fraser-Winter Park 5:50 a.m., Denver 8:35 a.m. Draft departure from DEN to SLC was at 9:00 p.m., arrive Fraser-Winter Park 11:02 p.m., Glenwood Springs 2:48 a.m., Grand Junction 5:05 a.m., Provo 10:26 a.m., Salt Lake City 11:59 a.m.

I haven't worked the Desert Wind with this, but it looks like Salt Lake City<>Las Vegas would be a daylight trip. If extended to Los Angeles, it would ideally be overnight south of Las Vegas, to complement Brightline.

Our team's proposal, which included Idaho Thruway links to Sun Valley, West Yellowstone, and Grand Teton at Pocatello met the Amtrak 2009 study deadline but was ignored and omitted from the public comment section of their study. It and some other materials were later included in a supplement.

Pocatello in 2008 was ready to be a Thruway hub.
View attachment 35724

I have been going over timetables from when the Desert winds and Pioneer were running. The timetable I want to try pitching with the Utah Passenger Rail association is a midday departure arrival from SLC via the overland route. Here is why.

1. Gives Utahs a reasonable departure train. Currently nothing but trash times.

2. Gives better options for utahs/coloradans to travel between cities. West bound zephyr arrives at 11pm SLC. Overland route is 3 hours shorter so an 11am departure would arrive around 11pm Denver. This might actually increase west bound travel from Denver. In the winter, double so because of shared ski pases with resorts in both states.

3. Gives the winter hellhole towns of Southern Wyoming options. I80 shuts down constantly leaving them basically stranded. The train can push through though in much worse conditions.

4. Cheyenne is damn near offering sexual favors to get a line back there.

5. Gives travel from denver another option that doesn't require getting to the station by 7am. 11pm departure would arrive around 11am the next day. Great if you want to just sleep and wake up at desto.

6. It's roughly 9 hours tops to Vegas, avoiding the Cedar city side track. After the west bound hit SLC, this would get you to Vegas from slc around 8 to 9 pm. While this is late for some, I think it's fine for Vegas. The one rough part would be leaving Vegas around 2 am to head to SLC to hit the 11am departure to Denver. Not sure how to fix that though as changing that either way makes either SLC or Denver arrival times just disgusting. I figured if any of those 3 cities didn't matter about departure times, it's Vegas because people are up all night anyways.

7. Having this line would allow the Pioneer line from Boise to hop a ride as they would just need to meet up in Ogden and connect up for the ride down. Essentially sharing the schedule from there forward.

8. From a purely asthetic perspective, having the daylight on the western side of this route makes more sense than the Zephyr route. The scenery from Evanston, WY to Ogden, and then down through southern Utah is much more pleasant than the barren plains of Wyoming. Eastern Wyoming and North Eastern Colorado.

9. Speaking of Ogden, they are currently in the process of a massive rework plan on a smaller scale of what Denver did to make their Union Staion once again a functional station with the goals of having Amtrak come back. Getting this line in would only motivate them to do it faster.

 

[Willbridge]

From the 2008 ColoRail expedition to check the status of the stations, past and potential, for the Pioneer. Sometimes I feel a bit sad about that project, because it was premised on the expectation that Amtrak would lie. And in 2009 they did.

Near Medicine Bow in 2008.