Viewliner and Amfleet Freeze Damage Update

[Amfleet]

Direct from Gene Poon on the All-Aboard Yahoo Group.

Due to the lengthening lines of freeze-damaged Amfleet cars and Viewliner Sleeping Cars accumulating at Amtrak car shops, the following service cuts are going into effect:

The Crescent, Trains 19/20, will lose one of its two Sleeping Cars until March 1/3.

The Boston Lake Shore Ltd. Trains 448/449 will lose its Sleeping Car service entirely until March 2/March 1.

The Sleeping Car on the Federal has been gone since November and was scheduled to return on 01APR.  We should have taken that date as an April Fool's joke on us; it is now cancelled indefinitely.

We already know about the Cardinal becoming Coach and Crummysnackbar only, until March 3/4.

In addition, the shortage of Amfleet equipment will force cancellation of some trains and/or shortening of Amfleet consists, on an as-needed basis.

-from an Amtrak advisory.

 

[AMTRAK-P42]

. That is horrible news all around. This will be the first time in over 7 years the Crescent would have gone done to one sleeper. Im also surprised/ saddened to hear that the Federal will lose its sleeper indefinitely.

 

[Amfleet]

To me, I'm not quite surprised. It's been one of the coldest years on record in the Northeast. I don't think we've reached above freezing in over a month. Obviously, this equipment was not designed to handle sub-zero, artic, temperatures.

The Federal loosing its Sleeper indefinetly is no biggie in my mind. It's already been without one for months. Same with the Boston section of the Lake Shore Limited. That train goes without a Sleeper almost on an every other day basis. Now to the Crescent, it least it has one Sleeper and has retained its Diner. However, nothing is more pathetic than the Cardinal! To think that just two years ago this train was fully equipped with Superliner Sleepers, Coaches, a Diner, and a Lounge! Now, it's just a skimpy Amfleet Cafe and a couple of Amfleet Coaches. What next!!!!

Spring, you're welcome anytime now!

 

[gswager]

Are any Amtrak cars are well-equiped for the cold weather? If so, why don't they upgrade Viewliners to avoid expensive repairs in the future?

 

[AlanB]

Are any Amtrak cars are well-equiped for the cold weather? If so, why don't they upgrade Viewliners to avoid expensive repairs in the future?

The Superliner's fare best, simple because almost all the plumbing is inside the cars. With the single level fleet, most of the plumbing is below the cars.

By the way, here in NYC, it was the 8th coldest January on record. We were an average of 9 degrees below normal temps for the month. It was also the 9th snowiest month on record.

The latter has me jumping for joy.

 

[gswager]

By the way, here in NYC, it was the 8th coldest January on record. We were an average of 9 degrees below normal temps for the month. It was also the 9th snowiest month on record.
The latter has me jumping for joy.

Does that means that you'll have to stay a little longer in school to make up for snow days? :lol:

 

[coachseats]

The Lake Shore Limited has been having downright awful on time performance lately due to late departures on both ends because of delays servicing the equipment from the cold. Sat. night in Chicago I was waiting for my Three Rivers and the LSL was delayed 3 hrs in departing. Passengers were surprisingly relaxed about it, I suppose us veteran train travellers don't stress out about this kind of thing as much as those at the airport! We left right on time, however and having checked, the 3R has been much more closely on time than the LSL lately with no big disasterous 12 hour late runs like on the LSL. Does anyone know if this is because the two trains keep separate pools of equipment or consists, because the 3R follows a slightly more southern route, or because mail on the 3R is a higher priority to get out on time, or politics somewhere?

 

[tp49]

Are any Amtrak cars are well-equiped for the cold weather?  If so, why don't they upgrade Viewliners to avoid expensive repairs in the future?

The Superliner's fare best, simple because almost all the plumbing is inside the cars. With the single level fleet, most of the plumbing is below the cars.

By the way, here in NYC, it was the 8th coldest January on record. We were an average of 9 degrees below normal temps for the month. It was also the 9th snowiest month on record.

The latter has me jumping for joy.

And both of them make me glad I moved to California...I recall 10 years ago the winter was also quite rough seemed like we had snow on the ground and very cold temps from January to March. :lol:

 

[AlanB]

By the way, here in NYC, it was the 8th coldest January on record.  We were an average of 9 degrees below normal temps for the month.  It was also the 9th snowiest month on record.
The latter has me jumping for joy.  

Does that means that you'll have to stay a little longer in school to make up for snow days? :lol:

I don't think that my old school would know what to do with me if I showed up looking to make up snow days, since I graduated 25+ years ago. :lol:

 

[battalion51]

Viewliner is the one who'll have to make em up, :lol: poor guy. As for shorter consists, you might actually see some longer Crescents and Silver Service as they try to bring em down to this Florida heat to warm em up.

 

[AlanB]

Here's a NARP e-mail on the same subject. It provides a few more details than Gene Poon's original update.

To all NARP Members, February 2, 2004--
Amtrak has announced the following reductions in sleeping-car service on

Eastern long-distance trains, each effective through March 2 eastbound

and February 29 westbound:

--"Cardinal" will run without sleepers;

--Boston-Chicago "Lake Shore" will run without a sleeper (but you may be

able to book coach space east of Albany and then space in the New York

sleeper west of Albany). --"Crescent" (New York-New Orleans) will run

with one sleeper instead of two.

The return of the Boston-Washington "Federal" sleeper, at last report

set for April 1, is postponed indefinitely. It has been missing since

last fall.

The large number of sleepers that are not in condition to operate right

now can be attributed to a number of causes, including difficulties in

the transition to a new organizational structure, bitter cold weather,

and a history of inadequate capital investment in the fleet. While we

definitely expect better things from David Gunn, and remain hopeful that

they will materialize, it should be noted that railroads have always had

trouble coping with bitter cold, and that, for example, Metro North is

not faring much better.

--Ross B. Capon, Executive Director

 

[Guest]

I decided to try amtrak, round trip Boston to Chicago. But I am starting to get concerned about the above conversations. I booked a sleeper. My trip is end of April and early May. I cant sit up for 24 hours, so if a sleeper car is 'iffy', probably best to go back to airlines. Shame our Gov. and country doesnt take rail travel more seriously/

 

[AlanB]

I decided to try amtrak, round trip Boston to Chicago. But I am starting to get concerned about the above conversations. I booked a sleeper. My trip is end of April and early May. I cant sit up for 24 hours, so if a sleeper car is 'iffy', probably best to go back to airlines. Shame our Gov. and country doesnt take rail travel more seriously/

Well at present you are safe as the removal of the sleeper on the Lake Shore is only thru March. Additionally since you're traveling at the end of April, we'll be well past the freezing cold, which has largely been the cause of most of the problems.

 

[Amfleet]

I decided to try amtrak, round trip Boston to Chicago. But I am starting to get concerned about the above conversations. I booked a sleeper. My trip is end of April and early May. I cant sit up for 24 hours, so if a sleeper car is 'iffy', probably best to go back to airlines. Shame our Gov. and country doesnt take rail travel more seriously/

While in the Spring Viewliners will most likely be more avalible, may I suggest taking the Capitol Limited to Washington DC and then connecting with a Regional or Acela train to Boston. The entire trip is only about 5 hours longer than the direct trip on the Lake Shore and you're 99% garanteed a sleeper on the Capitol. Year round it seems that the Boston section of the Lake Shore can run without a sleeper atleast once a week. If not more.

 

[Guest]

thanks for the info. I will look into the Washington DC route, but it looks to me like flying will be simpler and more reliable. What happens when you show up with a sleeper ticket, and no car? Get a 'too bad' and a phone number to call? Is Amtrak shooting itself in the foot by being so unreliable?? I hope I dont sound cranky, but it seems that a great way to travel is being sabotaged by a lack of concern or responsibility?? But then, maybe they are doing the best they can under the circumstances.

thanks for you imput.

 

[AlanB]

What happens when you show up with a sleeper ticket, and no car?  Get a 'too bad' and a phone number to call?  

No, you would receive an immediate refund on the accomodation charge (the sleeper fare).

Sadly of course, you'd then be relegated to the coach section of the train.

Is Amtrak shooting itself in the foot by being so unreliable??  I hope I dont sound cranky, but it seems that a great way to travel is being sabotaged by a lack of concern or responsibility??  

Well it's not like they are trying to shoot themselves in the foot, at least under the current president who took over about a year and a half ago. But sadly years of neglect, due in part to years of underfunding, coupled with the extreme cold weather that we've been having in the NE this winter, has lead to huge problems with much of the fleet.

This cold weather and the snow from last week has been wreaking havoc with all trains, not just Amtrak. The Long Island RR has been having problems and Metro North Commuter RR has had massive problems over the last 2 weeks or so, with almost 1/4 of their fleet in the shop for repairs.

 

[Guest]

Wow, That was quick. I fully understand weather related problems--all forms of transportation are affected by adverse weather. But what concerned me was the statement by Amfleet, that at once a week or more;all year round, there will be no sleeper car. Yet they will sell you a ticket, which to me, means there will be such a car on the train.

I think you would agree, that if any other form of transportation sold you a ticket that they knew had a good likelyhood of not be available, they would go out of business.

Somehow, I think there is something wrong. Reliability and trust should be one of the foundations in their thinking. Rail is such a fun way to go (at least on short trips). I hope things get better, as I would hate to see rail travel go away.

thanks for letting blow of steam

 

[AlanB]

I think you would agree, that if any other form of transportation sold you a ticket that they knew had a good likelyhood of not be available, they would go out of business.

While to some extent I suppose that one could debate if the airlines are actually still in business, considering the massive subsidies they were given in the last few years since 9/11, they routinely do exactly that selling tickets for seats that are not available.

They deliberately overbook flights anticipating that there will be no shows. Years ago the problem used to be very bad, with many passengers being left behind. Then consumer advocate Ralph Nader got involved and the airlines were forced to compensate passengers who were left behind.

So these days, while they still do hedge their bets and overbook flights, they no longer overbook as badly as they used to. However anytime you're sitting in the waiting area and you hear an announcement that they are offering a free flight, if someone wants to take a later flight, you know that they overbooked too much.

Now that said, Amtrak except for certain corridor trains does not overbook its trains. If you have a reserved seat, then you are guaranteed a seat. If you book into an unreserved train, then there is the possibility that the train could be oversold and you may not have a seat. All long distance trains are reserved, so no one should ever be left standing, unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Somehow, I think there is something wrong.  Reliability and trust should be one of the foundations in their thinking.  Rail is such a fun way to go (at least on short trips).  I hope things get better, as I would hate to see rail travel go away.

Yes, things do go wrong, but overall Amtrak does try very hard. That's one of the reasons that the sleepers were removed from the Federal late last year. They knew that they were already running short on sleepers, due to needed and mandated Federal Railroad Administration regulations for heavy maintenance, so they pulled the sleepers off the Federal to create a reserve.

Amtrak I'm sure, tried to contact each and every passenger who already had a ticket for one of those canceled sleepers, offering them both a refund and/or a new ticket for a business class seat. I know that I was contacted once by Amtrak prior to starting a trip, because they had sold me a ticket to a city that the train used to run to, but no longer did with a schedule change.

While I'll admit that I don't sit and track every Amtrak train or any for that matter, I do think that Amfleet was exaggerating a bit when he said, "they pull the sleeper once a week". Yes the Boston section has from time to time run without its sleeper unexpectedly, since Amtrak doesn't have enough sleepers to keep a spare sitting in Boston. But it's not quite as bad as Amfleet was suggesting.

thanks for letting blow of steam

No problem. While we're by and large all Amtrak fans here, we also realize that just like any big company, things aren't perfect. There's always room for improvement. In fact buried in the old topics are dozens of conversations about what we'd like to see in new equipment, changes to make employees more responsible for always providing good customer service (there are a few bad apples), and other things of that nature.

 

[Guest]

Your points are well taken. You are correct about the over-booking on the airlines. I personally have never been bumped, but I agree it is not right. I know they overbook to compensate for the people that reserve with multiple airlines and dont cancel. Two wrongs dont make a right.

I guess I was uptight about not being able to count on a sleeper in my reservation (which I paid for); but your explanation did help me understand. I truly would like to see an efficient and ubiquitous passenger rail service, as occurs in other countries. Maybe someday the public and government will realize the importance of passenger trains.

Thanks again for your patience and responses. I wont complain again, and will keep my reservation, and take a chance. It should be fun

 

[AlanB]

I guess I was uptight about not being able to count on a sleeper in my reservation (which I paid for); but your explanation did help me understand.  I truly would like to see an efficient and ubiquitous passenger rail service, as occurs in other countries.

And that is fully understandable. In fact, as much as I like riding Amtrak and I've logged almost 40,000 miles since 1999, I'd probably cancel a trip if my sleeper was canceled.

Maybe someday the public and government will realize the importance of passenger trains.

From your lips, or in this case your fingers, to everyone's ears. This is something that all of us here hope for.

Thanks again for your patience and responses.  I wont complain again, and will keep my reservation, and take a chance.  It should be fun

No problem and hopefully everything will work out just fine for you and you'll have a great trip.

 

[battalion51]

Here's what the NARP Hotline had to say about the issue.

 

[Viewliner]

This situation is bad, its too bad we didn't have a few more sleepers just to hedge our bets a little. I know last week the Silver Meteor was running only with 2 sleepers (which would seem more logical), is that still the case? or is it using 3?

 

[Viewliner]

I'm not sure if Amfleet already posted this or not, but here are the numbers on the entire fleet, courtesy Gene Poon through Trainorders.com:

Conventional Equipment Fleet Status, 06FEB04, readable despite still having columnar format screwed up by Trainorders formatting:
Long Distance and Midwest:

Equipment Type/Active Roster/Out of Service

Superliner______434_____89

Horizon__________82_____28

Amfleet I________19_____10

Amfleet II______141_____41

Viewliners_______48_____20

Heritage Diners__24______5

Heritage Dorms___22______9

Northeast Corridor:

Equipment Type/Active Roster/Out of Service

Amfleet_________348_____71

Metroliner_______95_____35

Cab Car___________6______1

Amtrak West:

Equipment Type/Active Roster/Out of Service

Cal Coach_______37_____4

Cal Coach-Bag___25_____3

Cal Diner_______14_____1

Surfliner Coach_18_____4

Surfliner Cab___10_____2

Surf Bus Cls____10_____0

Surf Food Svc___10_____1

Horizon_________14_____0

Dome_____________1_____0

 

[Amtrak Railfan]

I saw a Photo of a Lake Shore Limited Boston Train at Amtrak's South Station in Boston MA on a site this morning and I see in the photo 2 P42DCs, 1 Coach and a Food Service Car without a Viewliner Sleeper Car.

 

[Viewliner]

So basically, in order of trains that are most likely to get screwed out of a Viewliner as Follows:

Silver Palm*

Federal

Boston-Lake Shore Limited

Cardinal

Crescent

New York Section-Lake Shore Limited

Three Rivers

Silver Star

Silver Meteor

*Silver Palm is now of course the Palmetto and thanks to the AT derailment and deferred maintence lost its sleeper to the Cardinal, which of course lost its for now as well. Its at the top of the list since its long been missing its sleeper.