Viewliner II Part 4: Sleeping Car production, delivery, deployment

[west point]

Just like airline passengers do not read gate location signs. When anybody asks me take them to the nearest sign and make them read it, Get all kinds of reactions.

Sort of a repeat of the fish parable.

 

[edolan]

Again, except for the two Viewliner sleepers restored to overnight NEC service, its just been a one for one exchange, meaning more Viewliner 1 Sleepers heading to storage. Lets be honest.

It’s looking like Amtrak will eventually extend the Vermonter back to Montreal... what if they were to use the new VLIIs for an overnight frequency across the WAS-Montreal route — brining back the Montrealer/Washingtonian. Just an idea but that would be quite a route to return. They could also run another version of that route on the NY side switching direction in NYP.

 

[Steve4031]

This is common practice in Japan and Europe.

 

[jis]

It’s looking like Amtrak will eventually extend the Vermonter back to Montreal... what if they were to use the new VLIIs for an overnight frequency across the WAS-Montreal route — brining back the Montrealer/Washingtonian. Just an idea but that would be quite a route to return. They could also run another version of that route on the NY side switching direction in NYP.

That would be wonderful, but would be unlikely to get any funding from Vermont since all of it would be in Oh Dark Thirty. OTOH a daytime train as in extended Vermonter would be very much appreciated by all on the route.

Remember that the two Vermont trains (Ethan Allen and Vermoneter) are funded by the State of Vermont and the Adirondack is funded by NY State. They are unlikely to fund trains that call at the in state stations at inconvenient times.

 

[joelkfla]

This is common practice in Japan and Europe.

What is?

 

[Mailliw]

In order for the Montrealer to be revived Quebec would need be willing to replace Vermont's subsidies, but we can still dream.

 

[MikefromCrete]

In order for the Montrealer to be revived Quebec would need be willing to replace Vermont's subsidies, but we can still dream.

Why would Quebec want to pay for a Montrealer? The daytime train is much more valuable to Vermont than any kind of overnight train would mean for Quebec.

 

[me_little_me]

Why would Quebec want to pay for a Montrealer? The daytime train is much more valuable to Vermont than any kind of overnight train would mean for Quebec.

I'd take an overnight sleeper to Montreal. The daytime train is too long a ride end to end.

 

[Mailliw]

Why would Quebec want to pay for a Montrealer? The daytime train is much more valuable to Vermont than any kind of overnight train would mean for Quebec.

A night train would better facilitate travel from NYC to Montreal (& vice versa) than a second daytime train.

 

[MikefromCrete]

A night train would better facilitate travel from NYC to Montreal (& vice versa) than a second daytime train.

Who's talking about a second daytime train? My point is that a nighttime train would not receive support from Vermont if it causes the cancellation of the daytime train. Amtrak would have to pay for the full operation of a revived Montrealer. Quebec would certainly have no interest in subsidizing it. So a nighttime train would have to be a fully Amtrak supported LD train, something Amtrak has been extremely reluctant to do. Maybe under Amtrak's new funding, the company would be more bullish on such an effort. Time will tell. Of course, Vermont could continue to support a daytime Vermonter if it wanted.

 

[me_little_me]

Who's talking about a second daytime train? My point is that a nighttime train would not receive support from Vermont if it causes the cancellation of the daytime train. Amtrak would have to pay for the full operation of a revived Montrealer. Quebec would certainly have no interest in subsidizing it. So a nighttime train would have to be a fully Amtrak supported LD train, something Amtrak has been extremely reluctant to do. Maybe under Amtrak's new funding, the company would be more bullish on such an effort. Time will tell. Of course, Vermont could continue to support a daytime Vermonter if it wanted.

Could such a train be daylight to Vermont and overnight after that to Montreal? I don't know the timing of such a trip. After all, the Vermonters think of themselves as "Progressives" so they should be willing to buy up some of the track sections and speed up the train to get better service in lieu of subsidizing the operation at a slower speed.

 

[jis]

Could such a train be daylight to Vermont and overnight after that to Montreal? I don't know the timing of such a trip. After all, the Vermonters think of themselves as "Progressives" so they should be willing to buy up some of the track sections and speed up the train to get better service in lieu of subsidizing the operation at a slower speed.

Even without Vermont buying out any tracks, the journey time from St. Albans VT to Montreal PQ is somewhere between two and three hours. One would need to shorten the night by decree quite a lot to make it a daylight trip in Vermont and then overnight to Montreal.

For reference here is a link to the schedule of the Montrealer when it ran:

Timetable of the Montrealer and Adirondack in 1982

 

[MARC Rider]

The Montrealer overnight schedule actually worked pretty well in providing overnight service between Burlington (Essex Jct), Montpelier, and the NEC destinations. So there could be reason for Vermont to give at least some support for it. Of course, the current Vermonter daytime schedule provides better intrastate service, so I would think that having both trains would be best. If they want to make a day train to Montreal, having the Vermonter leave a little earlier would help ensure that it reaches the final destination before 10 PM.

 

[pennyk]

I saw Silver Meteor 98 pass through Orlando and it appeared that all 3 sleepers were V-2s.
Consist was 2 engines, 4 coaches, cafe, dining car, 3 sleepers and baggage. It was running about an hour late.

Edited to reflect the fact that the second sleeper was not a V-2. Sorry.

 

[joelkfla]

I saw Silver Meteor 98 pass through Orlando and it appeared that all 3 sleepers were V-2s.
Consist was 2 engines, 4 coaches, cafe, dining car, 3 sleepers and baggage. It was running about an hour late.

Looking at the VRF Ashland railcam from 07:48 this morning, I think the 2nd sleeper was the VL I in VL II livery.

1st sleeper, behind diner at left edge of capture:


2nd sleeper: no skirting on undercarriage, and no missing window at rear, so looks like a VL I:


3rd sleeper:


BTW, it was 3 hours late at this point. It's down to about 2:15 late now.

 

[jis]

Yup. The second one looks like it is the New River, the one VL I that is in Phase III livery. The giveaway is the cable conduit on the roof IMHO.

 

[pennyk]

Looking at the VRF Ashland railcam from 07:48 this morning, I think the 2nd sleeper was the VL I in VL II livery.

1st sleeper, behind diner at left edge of capture:
View attachment 26507

2nd sleeper: no skirting on undercarriage, and no missing window at rear, so looks like a VL I:
View attachment 26508

3rd sleeper:
View attachment 26509

BTW, it was 3 hours late at this point. It's down to about 2:15 late now.

I guess my old eyes missed the details. Sorry for wrong information.

 

[Steve4031]

That information from Jishnu is helpful as always. My uneducated eyes wouldn’t have noticed the cable conduit.

 

[pennyk]

That information from Jishnu is helpful as always. My uneducated eyes wouldn’t have noticed the cable conduit.

I think for me, it was uneducated eyes, a hopeful brain and a moving train.

 

[JC7648]

Does anyone know if Viewliner II's are now the only sleeping cars on the NYC portion of the LSL now, or is it still one VI & one VII? Is there any way to request a VII when booking online, or do you have to call an agent?

 

[jis]

Does anyone know if Viewliner II's are now the only sleeping cars on the NYC portion of the LSL now, or is it still one VI & one VII? Is there any way to request a VII when booking online, or do you have to call an agent?

Last time I checked the 12 cars is usually VL-II, 11 is VL-I. But of course things could have changed since then.

 

[joelkfla]

Last time I checked the 12 cars is usually VL-II, 11 is VL-I. But of course things could have changed since then.

That's what they were on 48 passing the Lake Shore Railway Museum's railcam @7:56 this morning.

Does anyone know if Viewliner II's are now the only sleeping cars on the NYC portion of the LSL now, or is it still one VI & one VII? Is there any way to request a VII when booking online, or do you have to call an agent?

You can call and specifically request car 12, or you can try your luck booking online and then call and request a modification if you get car 11.

 

[user 14106]

Warning - some agents don’t know that you can change the sleeper/room assignment without re-pricing the trip as the process in arrow is convoluted.

 

[JC7648]

Thanks all, after considering, I think I'll just stick with coach seating on east coast to Chicago trains, unless its the Cap limited, if I ever do go on east coast night trains again.

 

[drfonta]

On the LSL NYP to CHI in late May. Roughly 4 hours after landing from a 12 hour flight from Asia. Going to try it and see how it works with the jet lag etc. (got approx 28 hours in Chicago before getting on the Zephyr to Emeryville. "Traincation.") Anyway, on the LSL I got 4911 room 2. Sounds like VL 1 most likely based on reports here. That's fine. Had the VL 2 roomette last year on the Meteor and loved it though.