What's VIA's plan for the Renaissance cars?

[Mailliw]

What is VIA's plan for the Renaissance cars? Supposedly they're going to run the Ocean with hybrid HEP/Renaissance consists, but that would require moving the transition car into the middle of the consist. And the Ocean's website only shows Renaissance equipment. If VIA does get rid of them is there any 2nd hand marked for them, or would they just be scrapped? Would they be allowed in the US?

 

[jiml]

There is at least one Renaissance consist in corridor service between Ottawa and Quebec City. The coaches and VIA 1 car are very nice from the passenger perspective. If ridership recovers before the Siemens sets arrive, more will have to be deployed to get even close to the pre-Covid schedule, so we're talking at least a couple of years without even counting the Ocean. Additionally there are several sleepers in storage that have never been used.

Being easily the newest cars in VIA's fleet they would make the much-desired impression in a new market and I certainly know where I'd send them. That said, this is all from a passenger/railfan perspective, without addressing VIA's maintenance and mechanical concerns with them. I do not believe they are approved for use in the US, if you were thinking that was an option. The sleepers would certainly fill a void in Amtrak's single-level schedule.

 

[PVD]

There were serious accessibility issues with the fleet that caused quite a bit of grief (and expense) for VIA when they got sued. I thought the sleepers were gone, with most scrapped and a few others converted.

 

[jiml]

There were serious accessibility issues with the fleet that caused quite a bit of grief (and expense) for VIA when they got sued. I thought the sleepers were gone, with most scrapped and a few others converted.

They're alive and well (and accessible). Prior to the pandemic shutdown there were two consists on the Ocean - one was a hybrid mix of Budds and Renaissance, the other an all-Renaissance with a Park car bringing up the rear. The bad sentiments about the cars have overshadowed the fact that they are very modern in a European vibe. I have not slept in one (having a weakness for the Park car), but have showered in one. They have flaws but are very functional. The diner is my favorite - comfortable and nicely appointed.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

The Ren cars were rebuilt nearly a decade ago to provide handicap accessible accommodations in sleepers and coaches.

When the Ocean returns it will be a hybrid mix of both Budd and Ren equipment. Here's a sample consist I've seen posted:

2 F40s running back to back.
Ren Baggage (North American coupler on one end)
Ren Accessible Coach
Ren Accessible Sleeper
Ren Service/Lounge
Ren Diner
Ren Service/Lounge Car
Ren Transition (North American coupler on one end)
Budd Sleepers (up to 5)
Budd Skyline Dome***
Budd Coaches (up to 5)
Budd Baggage

***In the sample consist above a Skyline Dome is positioned between the Budd Sleepers and Budd Coaches......but this is still to be confirmed.

Personally I will always try to get a Ren Sleeper over a Budd Chateau anyday. Just a much quieter and smoother ride!

And it hasn't been a problem previously to run the transition car mid-train. At busy times VIA has run Chateau Sleepers along with the Park Car on the rear and about 3 years ago even an Skyline (that's a Ren Transition Car just ahead of the Skyline)

 

[PVD]

I guess the info I'm seeing is wrong, it shows the sleepers scrapped. Good to hear that is not correct. My understanding was that accessibility was addressed, but not to US standards, and the Ren fleet is still not looked on favorably by the disability advocates. Again, it is entirely possible that is wrong.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Renaissance Sleeper



Renaissance Diner......and there is no Kitchen. Meals are prepared 'on-shore' and reheated aboard in convection ovens in the adjacent service car.

 

[PVD]

Thanks, the sleeper certainly doesn't look scrapped to me...I think I see what I misread... apparently there were 29 unfinished sleeper shell which were scrapped, but 27 finished cars were kept in the fleet....so the "scrapped" tag was not the whole lot.... that makes more sense....

 

[Mailliw]

I asked about the Renaissance cars being usable the US because I was daydreaming about the Montreal Yrain Hotel proposal. Aside from the accessiblity concerns the Renaissance car layouts seemed idea for such a night train.

The Ren cars were rebuilt nearly a decade ago to provide handicap accessible accommodations in sleepers and coaches.

When the Ocean returns it will be a hybrid mix of both Budd and Ren equipment. Here's a sample consist I've seen posted:

2 F40s running back to back.
Ren Baggage (North American coupler on one end)
Ren Accessible Coach
Ren Accessible Sleeper
Ren Service/Lounge
Ren Diner
Ren Service/Lounge Car
Ren Transition (North American coupler on one end)
Budd Sleepers (up to 5)
Budd Coaches (up to 5)
Budd Baggage

*In the sample consist above there was also a Skyline Dome positioned between the Budd Sleepers and Coaches......but that is still to be confirmed.

Personally I will always try to get a Ren Sleeper over a Budd Chateau anyday. Just a much quieter and smoother ride!

And it hasn't been a problem previously to run the transition car mid-train. At busy times VIA has run Chateau Sleepers along with the Park Car on the rear and about 3 years ago even an Skyline.

View attachment 22343

Thanks. The Skyline Dome seems pretty essential as a barrier, otherwise they'd They be too much coach traffic through the sleepers. The Ocean is on my bucket list and I kinda like the idea of traveling in Budd sleeper. It's the closest I can get to the Golden Age of Rail and I can see for myself what a Pullman berth is really like.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Thanks, the sleeper certainly doesn't look scrapped to me...I think I see what I misread... apparently there were 29 unfinished sleeper shell which were scrapped, but 27 finished cars were kept in the fleet....so the "scrapped" tag was not the whole lot.... that makes more sense....

Some of the unfinished Sleeper shells were used for the Ren Diners (the original British Rail configuration did not have diners) If you look at the Ren Diner in my photo above you will see some windows spacings are closer together than the others...and where the photos are on the wall between windows....this is where the toilet annex would have been located in a bedroom layout.

The Ren Baggage Cars and the Transition Cars are also former Sleeper shells. In the photo below the windows in the Baggage car are plated over with a steel panel.




The Transition Cars did keep a couple of windows from the old sleeper configuration....

 

[Bob Dylan]

The Ren cars were rebuilt nearly a decade ago to provide handicap accessible accommodations in sleepers and coaches.

When the Ocean returns it will be a hybrid mix of both Budd and Ren equipment. Here's a sample consist I've seen posted:

2 F40s running back to back.
Ren Baggage (North American coupler on one end)
Ren Accessible Coach
Ren Accessible Sleeper
Ren Service/Lounge
Ren Diner
Ren Service/Lounge Car
Ren Transition (North American coupler on one end)
Budd Sleepers (up to 5)
Budd Coaches (up to 5)
Budd Baggage

*In the sample consist above there was also a Skyline Dome positioned between the Budd Sleepers and Coaches......but that is still to be confirmed.

Personally I will always try to get a Ren Sleeper over a Budd Chateau anyday. Just a much quieter and smoother ride!

And it hasn't been a problem previously to run the transition car mid-train. At busy times VIA has run Chateau Sleepers along with the Park Car on the rear and about 3 years ago even an Skyline.

View attachment 22343

No Park Car on the Consist???

 

[NS VIA Fan]

No Park Car on the Consist???

No....The Ocean can no longer be turned in Halifax and VIA has already decided it will be a bi-directional train with the F40s just running around the cars to the opposite end in Halifax. If a Park Car was used it would be running backwards in one direction right behind the locomotives.

In the proposed consist I posted above a Skyline Dome was shown but it has not been confirmed yet that it will be included.

 

[Willbridge]

Anything new or different will get a thorough ransacking by the FRA so it would be unlikely that they could get into the United States.

 

[Cal]

No....The Ocean can no longer be turned in Halifax and VIA has already decided it will be a bi-directional train with the F40s just running around the cars to the opposite end in Halifax. If a Park Car was used it would be running backwards in one direction right behind the locomotives.

In the proposed consist I posted above a Skyline Dome was shown but it has not been confirmed yet that it will be included.

I'm unfamiliar with VIA operations, why can they no longer turn it in Halifax?

 

[NS VIA Fan]

I'm unfamiliar with VIA operations, why can they no longer turn it in Halifax?

VIA turned the Ocean on a Loop Track at the Container Terminal near the station. Shipping and container traffic has increased so the area where the loop track was located is no longer available. There is also no Wye Track near Halifax where a train could be turned so the locomotives will now just run around to the opposite end of the train at the station.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

I'm unfamiliar with VIA operations, why can they no longer turn it in Halifax?

Here's the Ocean on the Loop Track in the Halifax Container Terminal.



It pulls forward......then backs down into the VIA Station.

 

[Bob Dylan]

No....The Ocean can no longer be turned in Halifax and VIA has already decided it will be a bi-directional train with the F40s just running around the cars to the opposite end in Halifax. If a Park Car was used it would be running backwards in one direction right behind the locomotives.

In the proposed consist I posted above a Skyline Dome was shown but it has not been confirmed yet that it will be included.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Here's the Ocean on the Loop Track in the Halifax Container Terminal.

View attachment 22356View attachment 22357

It pulls forward......then backs down into the VIA Station.

View attachment 22360View attachment 22361View attachment 22362

Thanks for the update, the Park Car is my favorite VIA Car!

 

[joelkfla]

Renaissance Sleeper

View attachment 22344View attachment 22345

Renaissance Diner......and there is no Kitchen. Meals are prepared 'on-shore' and reheated aboard in convection ovens in the adjacent service car.

View attachment 22346

View attachment 22347

What are the sleepers like for daytime use?

 

[jiml]

In the proposed consist I posted above a Skyline Dome was shown but it has not been confirmed yet that it will be included.

I haven't been in a Skyline in 20 years, but have a vague recollection that they lost the "flipover" seats in the dome during one of the refurbs which would make them somewhat "unidirectional" as well. Not sure the dome would have the same novelty running backwards for anyone but railfans. (I'd be happy to be wrong about this.)

 

[OBS]

I haven't been in a Skyline in 20 years, but have a vague recollection that they lost the "flipover" seats in the dome during one of the refurbs which would make them somewhat "unidirectional" as well. Not sure the dome would have the same novelty running backwards for anyone but railfans. (I'd be happy to be wrong about this.)

They definitely don't have the flip over seats, but not sure if they can be turned or not.

 

[jiml]

They definitely don't have the flip over seats, but not sure if they can be turned or not.

I had thought they were once the flip style, but lost that ability when the airline style tables were added to the seatbacks. I'd doubt there's room for the traditional pivoting seat sets found in the full-width coaches. Anyway, I plan to find out in-person as soon as the Ocean resumes.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

What are the sleepers like for daytime use?

Here's a Renaissance Double Bedroom (Cabin for 2) set up for daytime.



The rooms all have an ensuite washroom and some also have a shower.



The Ren Ecomomy Class Coaches all have 2 and 1 seating. The same cars are used for Business Class with at-seat hot meals, beer and wine service.

 

[railiner]

Sorry, but I'd take a full size Budd built car any day over those cars. They remind me of narrow-guage cars....

 

[NS VIA Fan]

I had thought they were once the flip style, but lost that ability when the airline style tables were added to the seatbacks. I'd doubt there's room for the traditional pivoting seat sets found in the full-width coaches. Anyway, I plan to find out in-person as soon as the Ocean resumes.

The Skyline (and Park Car) Domes always had the same style seating they still have. The tray-tables were added to the backs during the HEP1 rebuilding.

CP Rail did modify a couple of Skylines back in the 60s-70s with flip-over seats for use on the Atlantic Limited across Maine. (The Atlantic was not turned in Saint John NB)

I imagine if a Skyline is included in the new Ocean arrangement it will have some type of a flip-over or reversible seat installed or seats grouped in fours like the front 8 seats in a Skyline now.