Whats with freight delays and speed restrictions?

[Cal]

It's all rather complex actually. If you have a spare 30 dollars to spend buy the game Train Dispatcher 3.5 and download all the territories then try keeping the trains on time.

Do you have a link?

 

[tricia]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of the terrible Crescent changes. Atlanta, by far, has the most people wanting to go overnight to the NEC cities. Other places, like Charlotte are already late night for the Crescent and have multiple other choices to get to the NEC. ....

Between Atlanta and Charlotte we have NO other choices besides the Crescent for getting to the NEC. I too think it's a big mistake to push all the callling times 3 1/2 hours later--which also puts arrival in the NEC a half day later. WAS at around 9:30AM is now close to 1:30PM, with later arrival times in Philadelphia and NY--too late to be able to schedule any daytime appointments for your day of arrival.

The new Crescent schedule has Amtrak in effect telling the freight rr: You've been delaying this train for hours; let's change the schedule to allow even more of that. The end-to-end speed on this route will be 43 MPH. If it's on time.

Edit to add: I don't mean to hijack this thread. If moderators want to move my comment to the "new schedule for Crescent" thread, please do so.

 

[frequentflyer]

If padding the schedule is the only way Amtrak has to placate the Freight railroads, then what about "corridor" trains? If the times are not comparable to driving then how successful will they be?

 

[HammerJack]

If padding the schedule is the only way Amtrak has to placate the Freight railroads, then what about "corridor" trains? If the times are not comparable to driving then how successful will they be?

Padding schedules is not a solution, in my opinion. Freight companies have simply gobbled up the extra time with little change to Amtrak. The Sunset Limited has an absurd amount of padding, and it has trouble making time. Even if adding padding does improve on-time performance, the only real benefit is reliability. In the scope of travel time, a 2 hour delayed train is no different than an on-time train that has 2 hours of artificial schedule padding.

I doubt corridor trains will see much of this. They generally exist is places where the schedule can be maintained with some reliably accuracy. Their schedules aren’t padded much to begin with, and Amtrak knows that if travel times become too long on corridor trains, they’ll lose their share of the market. For the long distance trains, the mindset seems to be “these people don’t care if the trip is an extra few hours; they’re taking the train regardless”.

 

[tricia]

Padding schedules is not a solution, in my opinion. Freight companies have simply gobbled up the extra time with little change to Amtrak. The Sunset Limited has an absurd amount of padding, and it has trouble making time. Even if adding padding does improve on-time performance, the only real benefit is reliability. In the scope of travel time, a 2 hour delayed train is no different than an on-time train that has 2 hours of artificial schedule padding.

I doubt corridor trains will see much of this. They generally exist is places where the schedule can be maintained with some reliably accuracy. Their schedules aren’t padded much to begin with, and Amtrak knows that if travel times become too long on corridor trains, they’ll lose their share of the market. For the long distance trains, the mindset seems to be “these people don’t care if the trip is an extra few hours; they’re taking the train regardless”.

I think you're right about padding not being a solution, but wrong about passengers on LD trains not minding "an extra few hours." Remember that many passengers aren't travelling end-to-end (in effect using the LD train as a "corridor" between two midway destinations). Also the timing of those "extra few hours" can really matter a lot, even to end-to-end passengers. The new Crescent schedule, for example, now arrives in DC at around 1:30PM instead of around 10AM--that's a big difference if you're making plans to do anything in DC the day you arrive.

 

[LookingGlassTie]

Well, Penn Central DID have an airplane fly over Norfolk, VA back in the day.................

 

[railiner]

. For the long distance trains, the mindset seems to be “these people don’t care if the trip is an extra few hours; they’re taking the train regardless”.

In general, some truth to that, except for what #tricia has pointed out.
The way it's going, you won't need a watch for Amtrak schedules....just a calendar.

 

[neroden]

Indeed. I can't ever remember a train circling the station for an hour.

Try circling for 2 hours over Yuma. On a flight scheduled for 2 hours, from Phoenix to San Diego.

Or waiting so long on the tarmac at JFK that your international flight to London had to leave the waiting line to *refuel* because they had run low on fuel while waiting in line to leave. We left 8 hours late.

Both of those happened to me.

 

[neroden]

I think you're right about padding not being a solution, but wrong about passengers on LD trains not minding "an extra few hours." Remember that many passengers aren't travelling end-to-end (in effect using the LD train as a "corridor" between two midway destinations). Also the timing of those "extra few hours" can really matter a lot, even to end-to-end passengers. The new Crescent schedule, for example, now arrives in DC at around 1:30PM instead of around 10AM--that's a big difference if you're making plans to do anything in DC the day you arrive.

Not if you were expecting it to be three hours late, and now it actually runs on time.

 

[jiml]

Try circling for 2 hours over Yuma. On a flight scheduled for 2 hours, from Phoenix to San Diego.

Or waiting so long on the tarmac at JFK that your international flight to London had to leave the waiting line to *refuel* because they had run low on fuel while waiting in line to leave. We left 8 hours late.

Both of those happened to me.

I hear you! Every frequent flyer has a bunch of those stories.

 

[Cal]

I've never been stuck in a holding pattern for too long. I have been stuck waiting for an hour outside a train station.

 

[Rover]

Checking Amtrak Alerts today on Twitter, several of the 3-4 hour+ delays, were due, at least in part, to freight train congestion...

#8 5/6 was being delayed due to single tracking operations and freight train interference.

California Zephyr Train 6 that departed Emeryville (EMY) on 5/6 is currently operating approx. 5 hours late due to earlier freight train interference, police activity and speed restrictions east of Winnemucca (WNN).

Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle Train 1/421 that departed New Orleans (NOL)/Chicago (CHI) on 5/5 / 5/4 is being delayed between Palm Springs (PSN) and Ontario (ONA) due to heavy freight train interference in the area.
UPDATE: Auto Train 53 that departed Lorton (LOR) on 5/5 is back on the move operating approx. 14hr 30min late following an earlier disabled freight train that was blocking the tracks south of Florence (FLO) and a crew change.

 

[jis]

Do you have a link?

http://www.signalcc.com/train3/downloads.html

I've never been stuck in a holding pattern for too long. I have been stuck waiting for an hour outside a train station.

I have once circled over the Arabian Sea off the coast of India abeam of Vadodra on shore for almost an hour after a 15 hour non stop flight from Newark, awaiting a slot to land at Mumbai CSMIA (previously known as Santa Cruz Airport). What is an hour this way or that after 15 hours anyway? A testimony to the fuel capacity of a 777-300ER no doubt capable of carrying so much additional contingency fuel.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I hear you! Every frequent flyer has a bunch of those stories.

Is there a frequent flier bingo card?

I'm still missing several spots like EOS, IME, GO, RTO, ALT, FAM, UTS, etc.

*oxygen drop, inflight medical, go-around, return-to-origin, alternate landing, air marshal, unscheduled tech stop, etc.

 

[frequentflyer]

I hear you! Every frequent flyer has a bunch of those stories.

Oh the stories, oh the stories. If it wasn't the miles.............

One day I will have to tell you about the "free trip" to Germany that required four different flights and 21 hours of traveling. But hey it was free right?

 

[NSC1109]

Is there a frequent flier bingo card?

I'm still missing several spots like EOS, IME, GO, RTO, ALT, FAM, UTS, etc.

*oxygen drop, inflight medical, go-around, return-to-origin, alternate landing, air marshal, unscheduled tech stop, etc.

A lot of it depends on the aircraft you’re on, the airport you’re flying to, etc. Mainline aircraft have better capabilities and typically fly into more “advanced” airports than the CRJ-200 that many bare bones stations see. The 200 was never designed to be an airliner, it was designed as a biz jet, so it has a higher chance of mechanical failure than its cousin, the CRJ-700/900.

At the same time, the field you’re going to can have challenging conditions or even a lack of technology. We only have ILS (Instrument Landing System) on one end of the primary runway because the other end is hemmed in by a highway and a neighborhood. As a result, if visibility is poor and the wind is from the wrong direction, we could easily see a diversion. Such is the life.

 

[cirdan]

Indeed. I can't ever remember a train circling the station for an hour.

Circle line in London ?

 

[cirdan]

Oh the stories, oh the stories. If it wasn't the miles.............

can you claim extra miles for the circling

 

[jis]

Circle line in London ?

After the Hammersmith extension they should rename the Circle Line as the "Spiral Line"

 

[jiml]

Circle line in London ?

Not so much of a circle anymore.

 

[jis]

Not so much of a circle anymore.

Well you just have to hop off at Edgeware Road for the counterclockwise, and hop on at Edgeware Road for the clockwise. Just ignore the Edgeware Road to Hammersmith segment

 

[Bluejet]

They face speed restrictions all the time on approach to larger airports, and sometimes even en route in order to maintain separation from slower traffic ahead at the same flight level, or same approach path.

I’ve departed LAX to JFK and been speed restricted most of the way, .77 or.76. Obviously the heavier and higher you are though and sometimes “unable” is the only thing you can say. A full a321 loaded with gas near max recommended ceiling will not go .74 if assigned.

I’m sure the OP is stirring the pot, trains and planes cannot be compared on this level, though back in the day I did get a heck of an EDCT going into MEM with thunderstorms, and was flying slow and low behind a Conga line of fedex heavies, so there’s that.

 

[tomfuller]

Checking Amtrak Alerts today on Twitter, several of the 3-4 hour+ delays, were due, at least in part, to freight train congestion...




Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle Train 1/421 that departed New Orleans (NOL)/Chicago (CHI) on 5/5 / 5/4 is being delayed between Palm Springs (PSN) and Ontario (ONA) due to heavy freight train interference in the area.

 

[tomfuller]

I was on 1/421 The train was over 2 hours late in Yuma. I was scheduled for a 3 hour layover at LAUS. As it was I went directly to the bus to Bakersfield which left about 20 minutes late. The northbound San Joaquin left BFD on time. I was in Sacramento 6 hours ahead of the Coast Starlight. Got into CMO about 30 minutes late due to some freight traffic north of KFS. As I was exiting the CS, they cleared the lounge car to do covid cleaning.