Where should one change planes? London or New York? or somewhere else?

[Ryan]

Driving over there, assuming you're parking your car at DC Union Station, would cost more than flying.

Given the parkway and navigating DC there, it's probably not necessarily easier unless you really, really prefer driving.

Why would you park your car at WAS if you're flying out of IAD? That would still be a miserable four legged journey (car/MARC, red line, silver line, bus).

Since it wasn't clear, I was saying that driving to IAD would be the easy and obvious solution.

 

[Nick Farr]

Why would you park your car at WAS if you're flying out of IAD? That would still be a miserable four legged journey (car/MARC, red line, silver line, bus).

Since it wasn't clear, I was saying that driving to IAD would be the easy and obvious solution.

Parking at IAD isn't much better and you have to pay for the Dulles toll road. Also, it's a really awful drive from Baltimore even when traffic isn't horrible.

At least BWI has more budget options and, theoretically, they could take a relatively inexpensive Uber there.

It's still personal preference. Door to door, BWI>ATL/JFK>CDG is still about the same time and less money as driving from Baltimore to IAD and flying direct to CDG--and you have many more departure time options with a US connection.

 

[MARC Rider]

Driving over there, assuming you're parking your car at DC Union Station, would cost more than flying.

Given the parkway and navigating DC there, it's probably not necessarily easier unless you really, really prefer driving.

If I drive to Dulles from Baltimore, I take I-70 west to Frederick, then US 15 south to Leesburg and then get on the Greenway (a toll highway with a $5-6 toll that uses EZpass) to Dulles. It takes about 2 hours. If I drove the more direct route (I-95 to 495 to Dulles Access Road), it might take a half hour less if there were no traffic, but there's always traffic. The commercial strip on US 15 around Leesburg gives me an opportunity for a pit stop.

I don't know whether there are any direct buses/shuttles that connect Baltimore with Dulles, and I have no idea what a taxi/Uber costs. Taxis from my house to BWI airport are now running about $70. At 60 cent per mile operating costs for my car, the 90 mile drive would cost me $54 each way, plus parking costs.

 

[Nick Farr]

I don't know whether there are any direct buses/shuttles that connect Baltimore with Dulles

COVID likely wiped them out.

All in all it comes down to whether or not you prefer driving for two hours or a layover.

 

[MARC Rider]

All in all it comes down to whether or not you prefer driving for two hours or a layover.

Some of the flights connecting via the stopovers in Detroit or Atlanta have a total travel time of 15 hours, as opposed to an 8-9 hour nonstop. I think I'd prefer the drive.

 

[Exvalley]

Some of the flights connecting via the stopovers in Detroit or Atlanta have a total travel time of 15 hours, as opposed to an 8-9 hour nonstop. I think I'd prefer the drive.

I live about 3 hours from the nearest major airport - and about 2 hours from the nearest airport with commercial service. A long drive after coming back from Europe is not fun - at least for me.

 

[jis]

The closest commercial airport to me is 15 mins drive and the largest (in Florida now) commercial airport is 60 minutes away with lots of non stops to many places. I have never used the closest airport since it is served only by commuter airlines that require one to change flights in Atlanta or RDU no matter where you are going )other than Atlanta and RDU of course.

But then again, the drive to the big airport takes usually less than an hour from my garage at home to the relatively inexpensive off airport parking lot. On airport takes 5 mins more and costs twice as much. I use on airport for short trips and off airport for medium trips and car service/Uber for months long trips.

 

[Exvalley]

The other issue for me is that most of my multi-hour drive from the airport is mostly rural. After 9:00 PM or so, it is extremely common to not see a single other car on the highway at any given moment in time. It's harder for me to stay awake when it's just me, an empty road, and the darkness. I drove through New York City twice this past week, including one time fairly late at night. I was surprised at how less tired I felt since I didn't have the luxury of letting my mind wander thanks to the traffic.

 

[Cal]

The other issue for me is that most of my multi-hour drive from the airport is mostly rural. After 9:00 PM or so, it is extremely common to not see a single other car on the highway at any given moment in time. It's harder for me to stay awake when it's just me, an empty road, and the darkness. I drove through New York City twice this past week, including one time fairly late at night. I was surprised at how less tired I felt since I didn't have the luxury of letting my mind wander thanks to the traffic.

I don't have that problem here, nearest commercial airport (SNA) is 25-30 minutes away with frequent flights across the country. LAX is also an hour drive according to Google with traffic. There's also Ontario but options are better at SNA and LAX.

 

[Ryan]

Parking at IAD isn't much better and you have to pay for the Dulles toll road. Also, it's a really awful drive from Baltimore even when traffic isn't horrible.

At least BWI has more budget options and, theoretically, they could take a relatively inexpensive Uber there.

It's still personal preference. Door to door, BWI>ATL/JFK>CDG is still about the same time and less money as driving from Baltimore to IAD and flying direct to CDG--and you have many more departure time options with a US connection.

Hi! I'm Ryan! I live just a shade under 10 miles from BWI, and have driven to IAD to catch flights on numerous occasions. Usually it takes me about an hour. Hell, I've showed up at BWI for a flight, been told by the agent checking my bag that my outgoing flight was delayed and I was a guaranteed misconnect at EWR, driven to IAD (during rush hour, in the rain, even!), parked and caught a flight to my destination in order to make an early meeting the next morning.

I'm not sure where you lived before Michigan, or what experience you have driving between the two airports, but I'm going to feel like I'm on pretty safe ground when I say that I know what I'm talking about better than you do here. There is absolutely zero chance that I would ever drive to WAS so that I could take the metro+bus combo to IAD. If parking was absolutely not an option, I would drive the 2 miles to Odenton and take the MARC to start that particular journey, so comparing WAS to IAD parking is completely without a point. Depending on the circumstance I would (again, since this is a thing I've done), drive to a hotel near IAD, sleep there to get up early and catch the hotel shuttle to the airport where I board my early morning flight. You can get some cheap parking deals at the local hotels if you combine it with an overnight stay. Would I fly from BWI somewhere to catch an international flight with a domestic layover first? Perhaps. It would all boil down to timing, availability, and price. The drive to one airport over the other is completely a non-factor in the decision.

Also, spoiler alert: You don't have to pay for the Dulles Toll Road if you're catching a flight - the center lanes go directly to the terminal and are free. The outboard lanes are the only one to charge, people that use the road for other purposes pay the toll. Speaking strictly hypothetically (of course) one is also able to take the free lanes, drive through the driveway at the terminal, and then exit the airport to a local destination without paying the toll. I've definitely not done that. No, never!

 

[Cal]

I've definitely not done that. No, never!

I definitely believe you 100%.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hi! I'm Ryan! I live just a shade under 10 miles from BWI, and have driven to IAD to catch flights on numerous occasions. Usually it takes me about an hour. Hell, I've showed up at BWI for a flight, been told by the agent checking my bag that my outgoing flight was delayed and I was a guaranteed misconnect at EWR, driven to IAD (during rush hour, in the rain, even!), parked and caught a flight to my destination in order to make an early meeting the next morning.

I'm not sure where you lived before Michigan, or what experience you have driving between the two airports, but I'm going to feel like I'm on pretty safe ground when I say that I know what I'm talking about better than you do here. There is absolutely zero chance that I would ever drive to WAS so that I could take the metro+bus combo to IAD. If parking was absolutely not an option, I would drive the 2 miles to Odenton and take the MARC to start that particular journey, so comparing WAS to IAD parking is completely without a point. Depending on the circumstance I would (again, since this is a thing I've done), drive to a hotel near IAD, sleep there to get up early and catch the hotel shuttle to the airport where I board my early morning flight. You can get some cheap parking deals at the local hotels if you combine it with an overnight stay. Would I fly from BWI somewhere to catch an international flight with a domestic layover first? Perhaps. It would all boil down to timing, availability, and price. The drive to one airport over the other is completely a non-factor in the decision.

Also, spoiler alert: You don't have to pay for the Dulles Toll Road if you're catching a flight - the center lanes go directly to the terminal and are free. The outboard lanes are the only one to charge, people that use the road for other purposes pay the toll. Speaking strictly hypothetically (of course) one is also able to take the free lanes, drive through the driveway at the terminal, and then exit the airport to a local destination without paying the toll. I've definitely not done that. No, never!

 

[MARC Rider]

Also, spoiler alert: You don't have to pay for the Dulles Toll Road if you're catching a flight - the center lanes go directly to the terminal and are free. The outboard lanes are the only one to charge, people that use the road for other purposes pay the toll. Speaking strictly hypothetically (of course) one is also able to take the free lanes, drive through the driveway at the terminal, and then exit the airport to a local destination without paying the toll. I've definitely not done that. No, never!

So you can still do that? I will admit that I did it, but so long ago, that I think the statute of limitations applies. Anyway, the extra driving wasn't worth the savings of a very moderate toll. That was before they had EZPass, though, so the hassle of the toll was more than the money.

 

[neroden]

Says someone who has probably never flown Aeroflot, Air China, Air Koryo or Copa

I much preferred Aeroflot and Air China to any of the US carriers. Better service. That was in the 1980s and 1990s, though.

 

[neroden]

I would ad Alitalia as well. I flew to Rome in a seat that was literally held together with duct tape. The in flight entertainment was broken as well. If I recall correctly, the plane had been acquired from a low cost carrier that went bankrupt - and it showed.

The biggest problem with Heathrow is that, with only two runways that are used to their fullest capacity, things can get insanely ugly if weather or other factors cause delays. However, the New York airports aren't a whole lot better (I'm especially looking at you, LGA).

New York is consistently worse than London in this regard. London airports have *procedures* for delays. New York airports are just "**** you, not our problem".

I was once on a plane which waited in line so long to take off that it had to get out of line to refuel. That was New York. JFK. Departed over 10 hours late, after boarding on time.

 

[Ryan]

So you can still do that? I will admit that I did it, but so long ago, that I think the statute of limitations applies. Anyway, the extra driving wasn't worth the savings of a very moderate toll. That was before they had EZPass, though, so the hassle of the toll was more than the money.

If I were to have ever done that, it would have been many years ago when I was dumber and poorer.

I had a summer job out that way, and keeping a container full of quarters in the car was a pain. You're right that EZPass has made life much less of a hassle.

 

[Ziv]

I hear you about the superiority of most of the upper tier foreign flagged airlines. I have only gotten to fly on foreign flagged airlines occasionally, like the time I took Swiss Air from Wash DC to Athens, and not surprisingly, the service was outstanding! But I think the best service I ever encountered was when I took an EVA Air passenger/freighter combi 747 from BKK to Tokyo. There were only about 100 seats and my window seat was so far forward I could actually see part of the way down the runway as we were taking off. I think I was either 2A or 3A and the perspective was completely different from a typical airliner. And the stewardesses were phenomenal, as was the food!
I have been really lucky with United, which is usually not known for its outstanding customer service. My usual flights are from Washington's IAD to Bangkok via Narita (usually ANA), IAD to Billings MT and IAD to Saint Thomas. I have had to stay over in Denver due to late/delayed flights but it has been a rarity. And the people that I have worked with have nearly all been decent sorts. Crossing my fingers that I haven't jinxed myself...
It is unfortunate that US flagged airlines do tend to be a bit more of a cattle car than most of the better foreign flagged airlines. On the positive side, I haven't had a bad meal on United since Covid hit. Of course, none of my recent flights actually served a meal, so there may be a correlation there.... LOL!

...

It's also an inescapable truth that the foreign flag carriers are all nicer than any of the US airlines. A lot nicer.

...

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I definitely believe you 100%.

Sucker!

 

[Nick Farr]

New York is consistently worse than London in this regard. London airports have *procedures* for delays. New York airports are just "**** you, not our problem".

Once ATC modernized maybe 5-6 years ago, this stopped being as much of a problem.

Also, the procedures in London have to do with EU law. Airline passengers have more rights on the EU. I'm not certain how Brexit changes that..

I was once on a plane which waited in line so long to take off that it had to get out of line to refuel. That was New York. JFK. Departed over 10 hours late, after boarding on time.

What year was that?

 

[Nick Farr]

I'm not sure where you lived before Michigan, or what experience you have driving between the two airports, but I'm going to feel like I'm on pretty safe ground when I say that I know what I'm talking about better than you do here.

Columbia Heights, Foggy Bottom, Silver Springs and Pasadena.

I've flown at least 200k FF Miles out of BWI, DCA and IAD combined.

Just because you'd never do a thing doesn't mean it isn't a practical option for others. I will give you that if you live there your knowledge of the group situation is probably better than mine.

That being said, I've never had less than a two hour drive from north of Ft. Meade to IAD. I've also never done that drive before 8 PM. Maybe it's gotten a lot better since I last lived there in 2015, maybe you love to drive, maybe you drive like you're from CT.

Admittedly, I'd usually just have a friend drive or take a cab. When I lived in Maryland, I left my car at BWI or Greenbelt and taken MARC/Metro when I had to fly out of IAD. I've just not had good luck parking at IAD any of the times I've done that.

Also, once I got status on Delta with the lounge access, I pretty much just flew out of BWI unless Uncle Sam had me on United.

I do have an amusing story of one time I was on Air France out of IAD and checked a 100kg package.

 

[neroden]

What year was that?

Hmmm, it must have been the early 1990s. We were connecting to an Aeroflot flight to Russia, not the USSR but Russia, so that makes it post-1991...

 

[Nick Farr]

Hmmm, it must have been the early 1990s. We were connecting to an Aeroflot flight to Russia, not the USSR but Russia, so that makes it post-1991...

If you were on Aeroflot metal, I'm not at all surprised. Search "Kennedy Steve" and Aeroflot for some interesting ATC conversations.

 

[neroden]

If you were on Aeroflot metal, I'm not at all surprised. Search "Kennedy Steve" and Aeroflot for some interesting ATC conversations.

Nah, the JFK-Heathrow leg was BA. Aeroflot was Heathrow-Sheremetyevo.

There was a weather problem in the airspace over NY, and resulting massive flight congestion. And they really didn't do much of anything to manage the passengers. By contrast, when we got to Heathrow, we'd been marked as "tight connection" passengers and were promptly escorted.

 

[jis]

Nah, the JFK-Heathrow leg was BA. Aeroflot was Heathrow-Sheremetyevo.

There was a weather problem in the airspace over NY, and resulting massive flight congestion. And they really didn't do much of anything to manage the passengers. By contrast, when we got to Heathrow, we'd been marked as "tight connection" passengers and were promptly escorted.

I think there is a distinct difference in how things are handled in a world where the ruling philosophy is not "every individual for himself and the rest be damned" and "we are all sort of in it together and ought to help each other".

In my recollection, even though it was possibly in deeper issues at times, United states used to be much better until the dawn of the '80s.

 

[user 6862]

Why do you say that? My understanding is that fully vaccinated US visitors are welcome in the UK without any quarantine period required?

Ed, Nick Farr is correct, double the documentation into the UK from France compared to from the UK to France. This is fact, have just done this 3 times.

US direct to France is best, any borders are not exactly difficult but full of bureaucracy and testing regimes. Fewer borders the better for me until Covid is far behind us.