Which Direction? (traveling on western trains)

[AutoTrDvr]

OK, if you're planning a rail trip, and you have a choice (which you would), which direction of travel on the following trains would you believe offers you a better "scenery" experience, given such factors as : 1) the direction of travel that offers the better "visual vantage" point; 2) which portions of the routes are visible in daylight hours; and 3) which direction is better from an "anticipation/suspense fulfillment" perspective.. Or, does the direction of travel make any difference at all? And although i could, eventually, travel in both directions, assume I can only afford to go in one direction for now.

Example: I'm planning to travel on the CZ. I have the choice of going either Westbound towards Emeryville or Eastbound towards Chicago. My chief objective for the travel (in this case) are to be overwhelmed by the "breathtaking & gorgeous expanse of vistas and scenery" I might see, having been a "city person" most of my life and having lived in the Chicago area for several years and being familiar with it. The general assumption being that the "anticipation build up" in respect to scenery/vistas is better when heading Westbound than East bound, I also want to maximize the things I can see during daylight hours.

Would I be better off going Westbound towards California or Eastbound towards Illinois, or does it really make a difference at all?

What about the following other trains?

1) Empire Builder (either Westbound towards Seattle or Eastbound towards CHI)?

2) Coast Starlight (Northbound towards Seattle or Southbound towards LAX)?

3) Southwest Chief (Westbound towards LAX or Eastbound towards CHI)?

4) City of New Orleans (Southbound towards NOLA or Northbound towards CHI)?

Thanks!

 

[jebr]

On the Zephyr, westbound is more likely to have daylight through the Colorado Rockies, but I'm personally a bit partial to eastbound; the descent from the Rockies into Denver is stunning, especially if the sun is starting to set. Eastern Utah also has some great scenery, which helps build up to the Rockies later in the day. However, going eastbound means that if the train's running a few hours late, some of the Rockies will be in darkness. Westbound, it'd take quite a bit more delay for darkness to be an issue through the Colorado Rockies. That said, either way I'd consider ending at Denver unless you're wanting to see traditional Midwest crop fields for most of the final day (eastbound, first day westbound) into Chicago. (The Mississippi River crossing is nice, but other than that the scenery is nothing spectacular.)

On the Empire Builder, eastbound is my preferred way to go. While it's likely that more of Washington will be in darkness, you're more likely to have daylight through Glacier National Park. The Mississippi River between St. Paul and La Crosse is wonderful, and is much easier to see eastbound. Westbound it'll usually be dark for most of that section.

If you're looking at wanting to do a loop, taking the Zephyr westbound to Sacramento, then taking the Coast Starlight up to Portland or Seattle, and finally taking the Builder eastbound back to Chicago would be an enjoyable loop trip with (in my opinion) the least exciting scenery on the first day as you're leaving Chicago. Theoretically, that can be done without an overnight, but that'd be five nights straight on trains and, especially if you're in a sleeper car, a missed connection could result in not having sleeper accommodations for part or all of the rest of your trip. I'd suggest at least breaking up the trip in Portland or Seattle for an evening so that you're not worried as much about connections. That'd also give you some extended time to stretch out, sleep on a non-moving vehicle, and simply enjoy one of those cities for a day before continuing onward.

I'm not sure on the other two (haven't taken those yet.)

 

[Bob Dylan]

Jeb gave you excellent advice on the Zephyr,Starlight and Builder.

As for the Chief, Eastbound you'll leave LA @ Night, see Eastern Arizona and New Mexico as far,as Albuquerque in Daylight ( if on time). You may or may not see Raton Pass in Daylight. The rest of the Trip to Kansas City is nothing but Prarie and in the Dark. After KC not much to see heading for Chicago.

So Westbound is the best direction on the Chief IMO.Others may differ.

The City of NO LA leaves Chicago Southbound in the Dark and it doesn't generally get Light to around Memphis,but you're not missing much.

After Memphis,you'll see the Mississippi Delta,Jackson,Miss and the Swamps in Daylight but probably arrive into NOL after Dark.

Northbound( my preferred way), you Leave NOLA in Daylight,get to see the Swamps, then it gets Dark before Memphis and doesn't get Light till you're in the Wilds of Illinois with not much to see except the arrival into Chicago itself.

Also the City has a Limited Heat and Eat Diner Light Menu, it's not one of the Best LD Trains but does have Two Great Cities as it's Terminal Points.

 

[TiBike]

Northbound from LA can get you more ocean views, depending on the time of the year. But assuming the Starlight is on time (not a particularly good assumption, unfortunately) you'll get all the southern California ocean views, which are the best, any time of the year. In the winter, you get sunset in the Salinas Valley, in the summer you get it over San Francisco Bay, it can be spectacular pretty much anywhere you see it. IMHO the ride from Oakland through Martinez is best at night -- very pretty. In summer, you'll see more north of Sacramento, since the sun rises earlier.

Southbound is good all the way from Sacramento to LA in the summer, and other times of the year the sunset over the ocean can be really nice.

 

[oregon pioneer]

If you are doing a loop CZ/CS/EB, I say definitely do it in a clockwise direction. You'll get the Rockies and Sierras in the daytime, Mt. Shasta first thing in the morning followed by the Oregon Cascades in the middle of the day, and the Rockies in daylight (for both Shasta and the Rockies, it pays to be up early). The two drawbacks to this itinerary are that you have to change trains in Sacramento late at night, and you miss most of the Washington Cascades in darkness. If you go midsummer, you get more of the Washington Cascades in daylight.

I also like the California Zephyr in the eastbound direction, as I like coming down into Denver with all the lights spread out below. But if I were only doing it once, I'd do westbound. I've taken the SW Chief both directions, and really don't have a favorite direction. I especially like the stretch from Albuquerque to Raton Pass.

 

[Dakota 400]

I have done the CZ/CS/EB loop and I really enjoyed it. I spent some time in both San Francisco and Seattle, both for sightseeing as well as breaking up the rail journey.

Once, I did the Sunset Limited, New Orleans to Los Angeles, connecting to the Southwest Chief the same day. For me, that proved to be a day too much of continuous rail travel. An overnight in Los Angeles would have helped.

I have traveled on the EB in both directions and I do prefer the Eastbound journey.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

If you are doing a loop CZ/CS/EB, I say definitely do it in a clockwise direction.

This is the primary plan, at present. Originally, I had always wanted to do the SWC, because: 1) it was the classic "Super Chief" route; 2) it mirrored the "Route 66" trip; and 3) it would dump me in LA where I could then hop on the CS for the best part of that route (which I'd miss if I took the CZ to Emeryville. instead). This, unless I "double back" for it or take a short hop flight from SFO to LAX.That said, I tend to think that the "general scenery" is a lot better overall on the CZ than the SWC (i.e. Colorado Rockies, Northern Sierras, etc.). But I guess that depends on what you really like. I'm impressed more by mountain ranges than prairies. And I might just take that short hop SFO-->LAX flight.

Alternatively, I'm also trying to figure out how to work in a short layover in Vegas. (for my BTDT bucket list check off). I've already done a Rt. 66 trip driving (when I stayed at the GCNP), so I've seen Kingman, Sedona, Cottonwood, Flagstaff, etc. Don't need to see those again. So I was also considering the SWC for that reason as well, but that isn't a high priority. I can do Vegas later and fly directly there from FL rather cheaply. I was going to consider leaving the CZ in Reno and flying down, and then fly onto LAX for the CS but.... And, when I do all of this, I always plan to build in at least a 2 day layover in each end terminus city, in the event of "train delays."

You'll get the Rockies and Sierras in the daytime, Mt. Shasta first thing in the morning followed by the Oregon Cascades in the middle of the day...

That's Mt. Shasta from the Coast Starlight, right? I didn't think the Zephyr got that far north.

... and the Rockies in daylight (for both Shasta and the Rockies, it pays to be up early). The two drawbacks to this itinerary are that you have to

change trains in Sacramento late at night, and you miss most of the Washington Cascades in darkness. If you go midsummer, you get more of the Washington Cascades

in daylight.

Precisely when I would go... at the height of the Summer Solstice to get as much daylight as I can. I might not get to see the Rockies during a snow, but that might not be a bad thing in re: train delays/issues.

I also like the California Zephyr in the eastbound direction, as I like coming down into Denver with all the lights spread out below.

I'd be willing to sacrifice that,,, I've seen San Francisco at night from the foothills.

 

[cpotisch]

You'll get the Rockies and Sierras in the daytime, Mt. Shasta first thing in the morning followed by the Oregon Cascades in the middle of the day...

That's Mt. Shasta from the Coast Starlight, right? I didn't think the Zephyr got that far north.

Correct. Shasta is well north and out of the way of the Zephyr's route.

 

[cpotisch]

I also like the California Zephyr in the eastbound direction, as I like coming down into Denver with all the lights spread out below.

I'd be willing to sacrifice that,,, I've seen San Francisco at night from the foothills.

Sorry, but have you seen Denver at night? Not to say that seeing Denver at night is necessarily worth going with the eastbound, but having seen San Francisco from the foothills is a totally different thing.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

I also like the California Zephyr in the eastbound direction, as I like coming down into Denver with all the lights spread out below.

I'd be willing to sacrifice that,,, I've seen San Francisco at night from the foothills.

Sorry, but have you seen Denver at night? Not to say that seeing Denver at night is necessarily worth going with the eastbound, but having seen San Francisco from the foothills is a totally different thing.

Fair enough.... maybe I'll work that in with Vegas....

 

[Asher]

I guess direction matters, time of year matters, if the train is on schedule or 4 hours late can change what you expected to something you never imagined. Trees look great with leaves, but they block a lot of the view. Snow in The mountains is spectacular in the winter, but the days are shorter and not much to be seen in the dark. The ocean creates a beautiful scene if you are on the right side of The train, on yeah, go to the lounge, good luck,hope it's not plugged. Everyone has the same idea. If you want to see everything that a route has to offer summertime is maybe better due to longer days.

One of the best parts of a trip is the planning but the thing about a train, it just keeps rolling along and things are not in view for long, so you can either wear yourself out trying to position yourself to catch a particular thing or you can just kick back and enjoy everything you do see. It's all good!

 

[Railroad Bill]

If it is the first trip on these trains, I would go with my choices below.

Have done both directions and each has its own advantages.

CZ westbound (better timing for Rockies viewing)

EB eastbound (better chance of seeing Glacier Natl Park in daylight)

SWC prefer westbound but either way is fine

NOL northbound leaving NO in daylight

 

[cpotisch]

If it is the first trip on these trains, I would go with my choices below.

Have done both directions and each has its own advantages.

CZ westbound (better timing for Rockies viewing)

EB eastbound (better chance of seeing Glacier Natl Park in daylight)

SWC prefer westbound but either way is fine

NOL northbound leaving NO in daylight

Do you have any preferred direction on the CS?

 

[Ziv]

I like the Empire Builder eastbound, as well. But I have to admit that I like the Portland to Chicago route along the Columbia River better than the Seattle to Chicago route. Glacier Park is well worth waking early for. I like being on the North side of the car, but if you can't pick your sleeper berth there is always the sight seer lounge. Pictures come out better if you are on the side of the car opposite the sun, so north always and the west side of the car is better in the morning, etc.. Also, if you are into train history, Malta Montana is where Butch Cassidy, Kid Curry and the Sundance Kid were involved in a couple of train robberies in 1892 and 1901, if memory serves. I don't think they actually blew up a safe and destroyed the money, like the movie had it, they just robbed a train that left St Paul on a Sunday so there was no money on it. But it is a great story to read while you are riding the Great Northern route.

The odd man out on this rule is that on the northbound Coast Starlight the left hand side berths/west side are always best (you are riding up the west coast, ergo...), despite you getting some glare during the afternoon and evening. I have only done the CS northbound, so I am not a good source for which way is best, but I really liked it.

 

[zephyr17]

My picks:

Coast Starlight: Northbound. Guaranteed Ventura-SLO coast running in daylight. Cascades crossing in daylight

Southwest Chief: Westbound. Raton pass in morning. Red rock cliffs around Gallup at Sunset, which can be spectacular.

Empire Builder: Eastbound. Marias Pass in the morning. Westbound, it is around 6pm IF the train is on time.

California Zephyr: Westbound. Climb up the Front Range in the morning.

 

[Bob Dylan]

You'll get the Rockies and Sierras in the daytime, Mt. Shasta first thing in the morning followed by the Oregon Cascades in the middle of the day...

That's Mt. Shasta from the Coast Starlight, right? I didn't think the Zephyr got that far north.

Correct. Shasta is well north and out of the way of the Zephyr's route.

Oregon pioneer is talking about the Westbound Zephyr to Sacramento, and referencing riding the Northbound Starlight in order to see Mt. Shasta in the morning and the Cascades in Oregon in daylight.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

You'll get the Rockies and Sierras in the daytime, Mt. Shasta first thing in the morning followed by the Oregon Cascades in the middle of the day...

That's Mt. Shasta from the Coast Starlight, right? I didn't think the Zephyr got that far north.

Correct. Shasta is well north and out of the way of the Zephyr's route.

Oregon pioneer is talking about the Westbound Zephyr to Sacramento, and referencing riding the Northbound Starlight in order to see Mt. Shasta in the morning and the Cascades in Oregon in daylight.

Gotcha. But it probably wouldn't matter to me as I'd be getting downj to LA somehow to start the CS from the beginning. After all, that's supposed to be the best part of the "coastal" part of it.

 

[oregon pioneer]

You'll get the Rockies and Sierras in the daytime, Mt. Shasta first thing in the morning followed by the Oregon Cascades in the middle of the day...

That's Mt. Shasta from the Coast Starlight, right? I didn't think the Zephyr got that far north.

Correct. Shasta is well north and out of the way of the Zephyr's route.

Oregon pioneer is talking about the Westbound Zephyr to Sacramento, and referencing riding the Northbound Starlight in order to see Mt. Shasta in the morning and the Cascades in Oregon in daylight.

Gotcha. But it probably wouldn't matter to me as I'd be getting downj to LA somehow to start the CS from the beginning. After all, that's supposed to be the best part of the "coastal" part of it.

All above are correct. And yes, you want to do the whole route from LAX if you can! Running right beside the surf in midday, over the Coast Range and through the Bay area in the evening, then past Mt. Shasta and across the Oregon Cascades next day is quite wonderful.

And I agree with those who say that it's better to change in Portland and go up the Columbia Gorge, than over the Washington Cascades. But I didn't want to sound like too much of an Oregon chauvinist, LOL!!

 

[ehbowen]

Mr. Contrary here (not that that's anything new!); I'm not trying to say my way is "best" but I did the loop for the first time the other way around (September 2016) with my parents and it worked out great. The complication in my case was that I was starting from Houston with an intended midpoint destination of Victoria, B.C. And, wanting to minimize costs, I worked it out as a day trip to New Orleans first, two-night layover there, one way from NOL>CHI>PDX (direct connection in Chicago), one night in Portland, day trip up the coast to Vancouver, four nights in British Columbia (one in Vancouver, bus-ferry, 3 in Victoria) before catching the Victoria Clipper back to Seattle. We spent a night there near the station before boarding for my Last Great AGR 1.0 Redemption; SEA>SAC>GBB>SPI>LVW>HOS...two 2-zone roomettes for the three of us (actually, Dad qualified for the accessible room on the Starlight and Zephyr).

I can't say you can be confident of replicating our success as all of our trains were very close to on-time all the way around the loop. But we had sunlight all the way to the Mississippi River, most of the way through Glacier National Park, and the sun was setting as we came down the Front Range into Denver. A great trip; we still talk about it. Bottom line is, it's hard to make a wrong choice here...not saying that plans can't aft go agley when it comes down to the actual day of travel, but without knowing conditions in advance the choice pretty much comes down to a coin flip at least as far as I'm concerned.

Edit To Add: If you're doing the Coast Starlight into or out of L. A. you want to do so northbound if you can only plan on riding it one time. The scenery along the coast through Santa Barbara up to Vandenberg is Not To Be Missed.

 

[jis]

While I have taken the Coast Starlight numerous times, if all on is interested in is the scenic run from LAX to SLO, on can take day trip on the Pacific Surfliner to San Louis Obispo from Los Angeles. I did that earlier this year in BC and enjoyed it immensely.

 

[cpotisch]

While I have taken the Coast Starlight numerous times, if all on is interested in is the scenic run from LAX to SLO, on can take day trip on the Pacific Surfliner to San Louis Obispo from Los Angeles. I did that earlier this year in BC and enjoyed it immensely.

Sorry, you don't get to see the ocean at all on the Starlight north of SLO? I thought it ran next to the water for a pretty good chunk of the ride up to the Bay Area...?

 

[CCC1007]

While I have taken the Coast Starlight numerous times, if all on is interested in is the scenic run from LAX to SLO, on can take day trip on the Pacific Surfliner to San Louis Obispo from Los Angeles. I did that earlier this year in BC and enjoyed it immensely.

Sorry, you don't get to see the ocean at all on the Starlight north of SLO? I thought it ran next to the water for a pretty good chunk of the ride up to the Bay Area...?

The bay area waterline running isn't the ocean, it is along some of the bays in the area.

 

[cpotisch]

While I have taken the Coast Starlight numerous times, if all on is interested in is the scenic run from LAX to SLO, on can take day trip on the Pacific Surfliner to San Louis Obispo from Los Angeles. I did that earlier this year in BC and enjoyed it immensely.

Sorry, you don't get to see the ocean at all on the Starlight north of SLO? I thought it ran next to the water for a pretty good chunk of the ride up to the Bay Area...?

The bay area waterline running isn't the ocean, it is along some of the bays in the area.

Yeah, I get that. What I meant is that out of the 11 hour run from LAX to EMY, I thought that you got to see the ocean for at least three or four. I wasn't saying that I thought you got to say the ocean from the train in the Bay Area. Does that make any sense?

 

[CCC1007]

While I have taken the Coast Starlight numerous times, if all on is interested in is the scenic run from LAX to SLO, on can take day trip on the Pacific Surfliner to San Louis Obispo from Los Angeles. I did that earlier this year in BC and enjoyed it immensely.

Sorry, you don't get to see the ocean at all on the Starlight north of SLO? I thought it ran next to the water for a pretty good chunk of the ride up to the Bay Area...?

The bay area waterline running isn't the ocean, it is along some of the bays in the area.

Yeah, I get that. What I meant is that out of the 11 hour run from LAX to EMY, I thought that you got to see the ocean for at least three or four. I wasn't saying that I thought you got to say the ocean from the train in the Bay Area. Does that make any sense?

It does, though the area south of SLO is the only portion that has open pacific ocean running. Since the Santa Barbara to San Louis Obispo section is about 3 hours, and there are sections of ocean running south of Santa Barbara, there are more than 3 hours of pacific ocean views.

 

[jis]

There is no bay or any waterside running between SLO and San Jose. There is a bit of unscenic view of the Oakland Bay between San Jose and Emeryville. There is more scenic view of the Oakland Bay between Emeryville and Martinez. But none of that is ocean and nowhere as scenic as between Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo.