Why can't the NEC run full schedules during a snowstorm?

[ACL]

As my profile says "newbie", so I'm just curious. Could snow clearing equipment help?

 

[fairviewroad]

It's sometimes a matter of demand. Some people won't travel when heavy snow is forecast because their

meeting is canceled, or they simply don't want to head out. If Amtrak can see that demand is lower, they

may simply run a limited scheduled as a matter of most efficiently using their resources. So it isn't purely

a matter of "can't".

 

[John Bobinyec]

From experience Amtrak knows that some resources can be scarce. Two examples:

1. Crews have to dig their own cars out and get to their posts, so there is a diminished pool of personnel.

2. Not all switches are heated power-thrown switches. In those cases, the track department has to be

called out with brooms and other paraphernalia to clean out the switches. At least it used to be that

way back in the day, at Sunnyside. And just after the switches are cleaned out, the wind will blow

snow back and plug them up again.

jb

 

[OBS]

Especially with the light fluffy snow, it is a matter of the snow getting kicked up and sucked into the engines/power cars and reeking havoc on the electrical components. This problem is especially acute with the Acela equipment. Thus combined with reduced demand and reduced availability of working personnel, a reduced schedule is introduced.

 

[the_traveler]

Also when people are told to "stay off the roads" or they can see the roads are bad or driving is not advised, the passengers will not go to the station to get on the train. During the storm, I did not even walk to my sister's apartment - and we live in the same complex! (Separate buildings but same complex.)

 

[me_little_me]

On the other hand, Amtrak could advertise on the airport TVs that they are not canceling trains and that people can take a train to an airport that is open so they can get home :giggle:

 

[John Bobinyec]

On the other hand, Amtrak could advertise on the airport TVs that they are not canceling trains and that people can take a train to an airport that is open so they can get home :giggle:

Even though you say that in jest, it would be nice to be able to do that. The tricky part is getting from the airport to the train.

jb

 

[the_traveler]

But you know nobody rides trains anymore (because they're so crowded)! :giggle:

 

[ACL]

Thanks for all of the good and knowledgeable responses. I had always thought it would be great for the promotion of rail travel if when on the tv news they were talking about cancellation of air travel during a snowstorm, they could also mention that "Amtrak was operating at full schedule between Washington and Boston".

 

[gmushial]

On the other hand, Amtrak could advertise on the airport TVs that they are not canceling trains and that people can take a train to an airport that is open so they can get home :giggle:

Even though you say that in jest, it would be nice to be able to do that. The tricky part is getting from the airport to the train.

jb

If there is a specific train at a specific time: hire a bus and virtually have the train run from airport to airport vs station to station. No?

 

[gmushial]

But you know nobody rides trains anymore (because they're so crowded)! :giggle:

And who was it that virtually had a train to themselves quite recently?

 

[SarahZ]

But you know nobody rides trains anymore (because they're so crowded)! :giggle:

And who was it that virtually had a train to themselves quite recently?

Shortline. He was on the TE.

 

[PRR 60]

This afternoon, US Airways could advertise its reliability at Penn Station. All New York to Washington shuttle flights from 4pm on are operating and have seats (and there have been no LGA-DCA shuttle cancelations from noon onward). Five of six New York to Washington Acela trips from 4pm on are canceled (and 8 of 10 NYP-WAS Acela's were canceled from noon onward).

 

[CoachSlumber]

From experience Amtrak knows that some resources can be scarce. Two examples:

1. Crews have to dig their own cars out and get to their posts, so there is a diminished pool of personnel.

2. Not all switches are heated power-thrown switches. In those cases, the track department has to be

called out with brooms and other paraphernalia to clean out the switches. At least it used to be that

way back in the day, at Sunnyside. And just after the switches are cleaned out, the wind will blow

snow back and plug them up again.

jb

Yeah, it is like the airlines: many cancelations are related to unavailability of employees. And the airlines do a lot more preemptive canceling now to avoid trapping hundreds in airports on on tarmacs. And when it is very cold the problem with snow and switches is worse. Metra in Chicago just went through a horrible stretch because its people could not keep all the switches thawed.

 

[afigg]

This afternoon, US Airways could advertise its reliability at Penn Station. All New York to Washington shuttle flights from 4pm on are operating and have seats (and there have been no LGA-DCA shuttle cancelations from noon onward). Five of six New York to Washington Acela trips from 4pm on are canceled (and 8 of 10 NYP-WAS Acela's were canceled from noon onward).

What we don't know is how full those US Airways shuttle flights will be and how many people canceled for the WAS-NYP Acela trips. That is a lot of Acela service cancellations however, so I have to wonder if there is concern about keeping the Acelas running in this weather with blowing snow. The specs for the Acela II order should include being able to run in conditions like this, so the rolling stock is not the constraint.

 

[Nathanael]

Switch heaters have become standard in new rail installations in cold climates. It's another sign of lack of maintenance money that there are so many NEC and Metra switches which aren't heated.

 

[gmushial]

Switch heaters have become standard in new rail installations in cold climates. It's another sign of lack of maintenance money that there are so many NEC and Metra switches which aren't heated.

What are the actual electrics and mechanics of said switch heaters... electrical heaters actually in and about the switch and rails; or hot air directed from somewhere else??? Had never heard the term before and am curious... thanks - greg

 

[John Bobinyec]

Switch heaters usually come in two varieties.

The electric kind have a rod-like heating element placed on the outside of the stock rails. They don't get cherry-red hot like in a toaster, but just warm enough to melt ice and snow.

The gas type consist of a shroud (cover) which directs lighted propane against the outside of the stock rails. Since there is an actual flame, they are visible at night. And they make a very pleasant low-pitched whistling noise.

In my experience gas heaters are more effective at keeping the switches clear, because they are simply hotter than the electric ones. They usually have to be lit by the track department though, whereas the electric ones can be turned on and off automatically or remotely.

jb

ps The stock rails are the solid rails, one straight and one diverging, between which are located the moveable switch points. If the stock rails can be heated, the switch points won't freeze to them.

 

[gmushial]

John - many thanks.

Though a question: what type of power requirements for the electric ones? I'm wondering given the now hugely reduced cost of solar panels if one couldn't run them off such and save the cost of running power-lines to remote heaters?? Just a thought.

 

[PRR 60]

...That is a lot of Acela service cancellations however, so I have to wonder if there is concern about keeping the Acelas running in this weather with blowing snow. The specs for the Acela II order should include being able to run in conditions like this, so the rolling stock is not the constraint.

I'm thinking that problems with the Acela sets and this fine, dry snow may be an issue. Yesterday (1/22) 12 of 20 Acela trips between NYP and BOS were cancelled, and an astonishing 23 of 32 Acela trips between NYP and WAS were cancelled. Multiple cancellations are already shown for today (1/23), and there is an unconfirmed report at Flyertalk that at least some of the trips that are operating are using conventional AEM7 and Amfleet equipment.

 

[Larry H.]

One of my favorite old railroad ads was one that I cut out of the newspaper in Kansas City when I was in college in 1961. It was a full page with a conductor looking at his watch along side a passenger train. The Ad was from the Kansas City Southern Railroad. It had a large dark headline of "To our Fair Weather Friends". The point of it was that passengers were only flocking to trains in bad weather and that wasn't enough to keep passenger service in business. From what I recall in the heyday of passenger service of which this was the end, trains were not cancelled but had the track cleared ahead of the consist on a regular basis in poor weather such as we have had lately. I doubt that Amtrak or even many of the railroads have snow blowers any longer..