Why So Many Discounts on MI, IL, MO and IN routes?

[user 1215]

I've admired Matt, the BNSF engineer who is in charge of Save Our Trains Michigan, for some time with regards to his efforts to save a lot of rail passages that could have been marked for eternal loss. Despite some of the crazy news about Amtrak folding and general grammatical issues, his passion is about the strongest I've seen from anyone.

But as I loiter around the Amtrak website looking for deals, I can't help but notice a lot of trains that are almost perpetually on the Hot Deals page. Lincoln Service, Kansas City Mule, Ann Rutledge, Wolverine, Blue Water, Pere Marquette, Carl Sandburg, Saluki, Illini, and Hoosier State seem to make the list quite frequently.

I know that the states pay for a lot of these services, but if they are going to be empty more than full, wouldn't it be a responsibility to the tax payers of those states to free Amtrak of that rolling stock and utilize it elsewhere?

I hate to see a train line disappear. But I also can't seem to feel the justification of spending millions for just a few people.

It just seems crazy that a lot of talk comes about with regards to eliminating heavily traveled routes like the EB, CZ, SWC, TE, CONO, CS, etc. when there are less traveled roads out there.

 

[the_traveler]

I've also noticed this. And most weeks, the same trains are listed as "weekly specials".

But the thing that gets me mad (I'll admit), is that with the exception of the KC Mules (which is on there often), most of the listings are for short haul runs to/from CHI. I admit I'm selfish (and I know I'll never see any of the Regionals listed), but why not occasionally have some LD feeders (such as the LSL or CL) offered?

I do see the EB listed quite often, but again that runs to/from CHI. (I thought that was "the best train"!) True, you can get a "weekly special" from SEA to SPK on the EB, but why not offer the CZ or SWC occasionally too?

I would like to take advantage of some of these $6 fares, but it would cost me $$$ to get to CHI! :angry:

 

[JohnBredin]

Having rode the Lincoln Service a bunch of times to Springfield, the Illinois Zephyr/Carl Sandburg to Galesburg a few times, and the Hiawatha to Milwaukee once (all from Chicago), I can assure you that these trains are NOT underused!

You seem to be presuming that these trains are "empty more than full" because discounts are offered. But the airlines offer discounts all the time, and nobody presumes that airliners are flying around half-empty. Megabus (Megaparasite, but don't get me started! :angry: ) prominently advertises $1 fares (plus booking fee) on ALL its buses, but nobody presumes their buses are rolling down the road half-empty.

Just like the airlines and Megabus, Amtrak's goal in offering these discounts is to:

1) attract people who are "surfing" the web for the cheapest fares.

2) put a butt in **every** seat, because once you're running a train with a certain number of cars (for example, enough passengers have booked on the Carl Sandburg to run three cars), filling every seat at any price increases revenue without increasing expenses measurably.

It must also be remembered that Illinois, Missouri, Michigan, and Wisconsin have chosen to pay Amtrak to run these trains because these states' goal is not to run a profitable railroad but to make it easier for tourists, college students, government employees going to the state capital, businessmen, etc. to take the train versus driving, flying, or not going (in the case of tourists). Lower fares help that. Just like the CTA, NYC subways Washington Metro, etc. offer discounted all-day and multi-day passes even though their trains are plenty full.

 

[battalion51]

Part of it is also to entice future business. If you get people on board with a cheap fare, they like the service, it will encourage them to use the service again in the future. For example, in my younger years (this was about five years ago now), before I could convince my Mom to do distance trips with me she had to do a short jaunt to just get a feel for things before she would buy into the long distance stuff.

 

[wayman]

I would like to take advantage of some of these $6 fares, but it would cost me $$$ to get to CHI! :angry:

It may not happen often, but it does happen--I once took the Lake Shore from NYP to CHI for $16. I still can't believe it. (Granted, that was in 2001 and may be unlikely to happen again.)

 

[BobWeaver]

I would like to take advantage of some of these $6 fares, but it would cost me $$$ to get to CHI! :angry:

It may not happen often, but it does happen--I once took the Lake Shore from NYP to CHI for $16. I still can't believe it. (Granted, that was in 2001 and may be unlikely to happen again.)

While I've never seen a trip of that distance that cheap, I was able to grab roundtrip tickets from Clemson, SC to WAS last August for $46.50 one way, which is down from the regular $85 fare. However, I haven't seen 19/20 on the Hot Deals page in quite some time...

 

[RailFanLNK]

I will admit that I am OCD and check the "hot deals" daily. In April I went on the CZ from LNK to CHI for $79 RT. I also went last October on the CZ to WIP from LNK for $71 RT both were "hot deals". I do get disapointed when I don't see the CZ on there and keep seeing the same trains, but one of these days, I will see the CZ and hopefully can snag an inexpensive trip somewhere. The trip to WIP was PACKED! There wasn't an empty seat to be found, unfortunately, there wasn't a coach attendent on that trip to be found.

 

[the_traveler]

I would like to take advantage of some of these $6 fares, but it would cost me $$$ to get to CHI! :angry:

It may not happen often, but it does happen--I once took the Lake Shore from NYP to CHI for $16. I still can't believe it. (Granted, that was in 2001 and may be unlikely to happen again.)

While I've never seen a trip of that distance that cheap, I was able to grab roundtrip tickets from Clemson, SC to WAS last August for $46.50 one way, which is down from the regular $85 fare. However, I haven't seen 19/20 on the Hot Deals page in quite some time...

"Ages ago" (in Amtrak time - 5 or 6 years ago, I think), I found a 2 weekly specials that I could combine! I went from ALB-CHI on the LSL and CHI-DEN on the CZ! The price per segment was --------> $19! So it cost me $38 each way to go from ALB-DEN!

How I miss those days!

 

[DaveKCMO]

in the case of the missouri trains, poor OTP is surely one major factor. they are currently the worst in the system. couple that with a travel time that is 2 hours longer than driving, you get lots of empty seats. thankfully, MoDOT seems to be committed to continuing the service and has asked for capital funding to improve OTP.

 

[The Metropolitan]

East Coast trains like the CL, LSL, and Cardinal tend to appear in the winter months. I did a wild WAS>29>CHI>50>BAL trip on the Presidents Day Weekend for $92 round trip. IIRC, the Silver Meteor may have also been listed as a special around then as well.

The Palmetto was a regularly appearing train this year for much of the Summer. I kept trying to find time to take advantage of the special, debating between a Petersburg round trip, or an odd triangle of BAL-RVR-CVS-BAL using the special, Thruway bus, and Cardinal, but never did.

Trains I've never seen listed, and tend to doubt I will see are any Regionals and Acelas, Carolinian and Piedmont, Vermonter and Pennsylvanian, Downeaster, Hiawathas, San Joaquins, and Cascades.

Occasionally a very limited use special might pop up on trains like the Silver Star or Crescent where only a portion of the route is available.

And I'll admit, I've been checking the specials weekly to see if the Capitol or Silver Star might pop up to allow me a little weekend getaway!

 

[user 1215]

Very interesting responses! So, if the MO, MI, IL services are being filled with these discounts, I suppose the influx of cash by the states are keeping them on the 'hot' list. I would love to see the hot deals make their way around the system in cycles - maybe random, maybe predictable. I know that the Palmetto and EB has been on there a few times - rarely for the full distance, but for a good chunk anyway. I know that right now there are still a lot of lowest bucket seats on the Palmetto over the next 6 weeks.

And another interesting point about the state-run discounts... I don't see discounts on North Carolina services (Carolinian and Piedmont), and I don't see the Heartland Flyer discounted either, along with the rest of those routes in the NE mentioned by The Metropolitan.

Oh well. I'll keep checking daily.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Sitting here near Orlando, I am also getting increasingly disgusted with the Amtrak Weekly Special myopia. Whoever is setting them needs to be introduced to an Amtrak system map and a lesson in American geography and demographics. In a way, they seem to have as much of a OIMBY syndrome as the Amtrak folks involved with Acela and the NEC. ( OIMBY being "ONLY in MY Back Yard" as opposed to the NIMBY "Not in My Back Yard" folks. )

 

[wayman]

And another interesting point about the state-run discounts... I don't see discounts on North Carolina services (Carolinian and Piedmont), and I don't see the Heartland Flyer discounted either, along with the rest of those routes in the NE mentioned by The Metropolitan.

Likewise the Keystone will never show up there. But the maximum fare (PHL-HAR) is only $20 to begin with, and most intermediate fares are less than $10 (Technically, you can do PHL-DOW, DOW-LNC, LNC-HAR for just $18... but that's too silly even for me :lol: )

I'm assuming normal fares on the Carolina services are generally more than this to begin with? (I've only ever taken the Carolinian PHL-WAS, where it's the same price as a Regional.)

 

[como]

in the case of the missouri trains, poor OTP is surely one major factor. they are currently the worst in the system. couple that with a travel time that is 2 hours longer than driving, you get lots of empty seats. thankfully, MoDOT seems to be committed to continuing the service and has asked for capital funding to improve OTP.

As Dave mentioned the Missouri trains run late. Another factor is that the schedules do not permit one-day roundtrips to Kansas City and St. Louis from Jefferson City which is one of the busier stops. However MoDOT is actually advertising Amtrak on the new message boards on I 70. Congestion on the eastern half of I 70 is bad and getting worse.