WI gubernatorial candidate comes out as anti-rail

[WICT106]

What a shame. I mean, this route, complete with running the Empire Builder through Madison as it makes its' way across Wisconsin, would be a sure winner in the Amtrak network. yet the opponents are coming out of the woodwork.

High Speed rail carries high costs. -- JS online

Judging from the comments, the opponents are familiar only with either driving or flying. Read the comments. What was it we said about the "strictly drive/fly mentality" ?

Despite this being one of the smartest transportation investments to come along in my lifetime, there are those who are opposed to it no matter what. It makes me think that these opponents have never been aboard a train, if only to provide a direct experience to contrast their preconceived notions that "No one rides trains."

I say that the State DOT should just get the route built and in operation. Before the opponents, who are proud of their ignorance, strip the project of its funding.

 

[volkris]

Gov. Jim Doyle and other high-speed rail advocates must show where the money would come from to operate the rail line, Walker said.
"If they can't, then I don't know how you take" the money President Barack Obama announced for Wisconsin last month, Walker said.

Adam Collins, a spokesman for Doyle, said Walker was politicizing what should be a huge opportunity for the state.

Collins did not respond to questions about how the state would cover the operating costs of the high-speed rail line.

Sounds like a reasonable position to me. I think this is one of those things where nobody's really anti-rail, they're just anti-irresponsible spending. I'm sure the candidate would be delighted to accept the rail system if it appeared magically and operated for free. However in the real world, the state has to figure out a way to pay for it.

 

[Kramerica]

Gov. Jim Doyle and other high-speed rail advocates must show where the money would come from to operate the rail line, Walker said.
"If they can't, then I don't know how you take" the money President Barack Obama announced for Wisconsin last month, Walker said.

Adam Collins, a spokesman for Doyle, said Walker was politicizing what should be a huge opportunity for the state.

Collins did not respond to questions about how the state would cover the operating costs of the high-speed rail line.

Sounds like a reasonable position to me. I think this is one of those things where nobody's really anti-rail, they're just anti-irresponsible spending. I'm sure the candidate would be delighted to accept the rail system if it appeared magically and operated for free. However in the real world, the state has to figure out a way to pay for it.

Scott Walker is just about as anti-rail as you get. In this case he does have a point about where the operating money is going to come from. But he has not shown ANY desire to compromise on any rail anywhere. He opposes HSR. He opposes the KRM commuter rail. He opposes the Milwaukee streetcar plan.

In 1991, Milwaukee was given $91.5 million in federal money to use on transit. The money has sat unused since then because the county and city could not agree on how to use it. In the 2000's Walker has been County Executive and Tom Barrett has been Milwaukee Mayor. Barrett wanted to use part for express busses and part for a streetcar system. Walker wanted to use it all for express busses. Barrett eventually offered to split the money in half, with the county and city doing whatever they wanted with the money, individually. But Walker rejected that plan because he didn't want rail. Of course he got his just desserts when Congress last year split the money, with $54.9 million going to the city and only $36.6 million going to the county.

Now they are running against each other for governor. I think our HSR will be dead if Walker wins.

 

[AlanB]

Now they are running against each other for governor. I think our HSR will be dead if Walker wins.

If they can get a shovel in the ground and get started building before the election, then Walker will have no choice but to run HSR. The Fed always attaches strings to funding like this, and failure to run the line for a set number of years will most likely see the state needing to pay the money back to the Fed.

 

[WICT106]

Now they are running against each other for governor. I think our HSR will be dead if Walker wins.

If they can get a shovel in the ground and get started building before the election, then Walker will have no choice but to run HSR. The Fed always attaches strings to funding like this, and failure to run the line for a set number of years will most likely see the state needing to pay the money back to the Fed.

Well, allegedly the State DOt has already begun the Final Engineering phase. That will take a couple months. Construction could start at the end of this year, or the very early beginning of 2011. I hope that this gets underway, before the anti - everythings are able to stop it.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Now they are running against each other for governor. I think our HSR will be dead if Walker wins.

If they can get a shovel in the ground and get started building before the election, then Walker will have no choice but to run HSR. The Fed always attaches strings to funding like this, and failure to run the line for a set number of years will most likely see the state needing to pay the money back to the Fed.

Well, allegedly the State DOt has already begun the Final Engineering phase. That will take a couple months. Construction could start at the end of this year, or the very early beginning of 2011. I hope that this gets underway, before the anti - everythings are able to stop it.

Get active politically and campaign against Walker. Talk up the importance of high speed rail with everyone you know. Write letters to your local newspapers. Work to make sure Walker doesn't get elected. That's the way the system works.

 

[BigBlueBuddha]

"The county executive, a Republican candidate [scott Walker] for governor, said he might back the high-speed rail idea if "there was a model that could be shown where it was self-sufficient, where the operating costs were covered by the users." He acknowledged that also was unlikely."

Why should the entire operating cost be absorbed by the users? Seems to me there is a public benefit from having another mode of transportation. Even those who choose to drive benefit from fewer cars on the road and less pollution.

"Walker said the fast trains wouldn't be as swift as driving a car, when factoring in time needed to get to the Amtrak station in Milwaukee and time to get from a proposed rail station at the Madison airport to the state Capitol or other Madison destinations."

This is completely specious. There will be stops in Brookfield, Oconomowoc, and Watertown, so one doesn't need to "get to the Amtrak station in Milwaukee" to use the train.

I commute from outside Milwaukee to Madison 2-3 times a week and I can tell you that traffic in Madison is a nightmare! On a good day, it takes 30 min to drive from around the Madison airport to the UW campus area during normal commuting times. If it snows, forget it. It once took me over 2 hours to get from East Towne Mall to campus, a distance of 6 miles, in bumper-to-bumper traffic!! Good thing I had an empty water bottle in the car when the coffee came through. . .

Thankfully, it does seem like most of the posted comments at the JS site are pro-rail.

 

[Kramerica]

If they can get a shovel in the ground and get started building before the election, then Walker will have no choice but to run HSR. The Fed always attaches strings to funding like this, and failure to run the line for a set number of years will most likely see the state needing to pay the money back to the Fed.

I hope you're right that once they start spending the money, they'll need to spend it all and actually run some trains. Although if only a few million get spent by the time Walker is in office (early 2011), I could easily see him stopping work, repaying the Feds their few millions, and saying that was better than spending millions every year to operate the train. So hopefully we have $50 million + spent by the end of 2010.

 

[WICT106]

"The county executive, a Republican candidate [scott Walker] for governor, said he might back the high-speed rail idea if "there was a model that could be shown where it was self-sufficient, where the operating costs were covered by the users." He acknowledged that also was unlikely."

Why should the entire operating cost be absorbed by the users? Seems to me there is a public benefit from having another mode of transportation. Even those who choose to drive benefit from fewer cars on the road and less pollution.

Thankfully, it does seem like most of the posted comments at the JS site are pro-rail.

I should point out here that this rail is only the first part of the project to get train service running between Chicago and Saint Paul / Minneapolis, via MILW and Madison. it seems as though numerous opponents throughout Wisconsin are unaware of this fact. Also, there is a meeting of the Joint Finance Committee to "accept" this funding on Tuesday Feb. 16, 9 am, here in Madison. Maybe I should go.

see link: Notice from ProRail action, Yahoo! groups.

 

[Ryan]

I think this is one of those things where nobody's really anti-rail, they're just anti-irresponsible spending.

What exactly makes this spending irresponsible? If we required everyone to agree on every dollar spent, then nothing would ever get done.

 

[saxman]

There's going to be some opposition no matter what. There just seems to be more right now because all this rail stuff is in the news now, and all the ignorant people come out. Slowly we have more and more people realizing the benefits of rail. I didn't read through 280 comments but I made a general comment, correcting many of the misconceptions.

 

[Trogdor]

I've always said that anti-rail is a religion in Wisconsin. Scott Walker happens to be one of the archbishops.

 

[volkris]

I think this is one of those things where nobody's really anti-rail, they're just anti-irresponsible spending.

What exactly makes this spending irresponsible? If we required everyone to agree on every dollar spent, then nothing would ever get done.

Planning to spend millions of dollars with no plan for actually acquiring those millions is irresponsible no matter how you cut it. If nothing ever got done but governments kept themselves out of bankruptcy we'd probably be coming out ahead on the trade. After all, what good are trains if there's no money to run them AND school funding had to be cut back because the money was spent on rolling stock?

Anyway, it's not about requiring everyone to agree, it's about having enough people agree to legitimize the spending of public funds and raising of taxes. And why not? Shouldn't the bar be kind of high before the tax man can reach into your pocket for more?

 

[goodnightjohnwayne]

I'm glad to see one politician who's willing to take on the issue of where the operating subsidies will come from for these new HSR projects. Even if the Feds pick up 100% of construction costs, the state and local taxpayers will have to subsidize these lines in the years and decades to come. I'm inclined to say that the Madison market does not justify this level of expenditure and that the continuing subsidies for this service will represent a substantial financial burden.

 

[rtabern]

Living in not only Wisconsin... but Milwaukee County... and actually having the chance to interview Scott Walker when I was working in TV news here... I can tell you he is indeed one of the most ANTI-RAIL people out there.

First off, he pretty much killed the idea to extend the Metra commuter line from Kenosha, WI to Milwaukee, WI. I was for this because I live in South Milwaukee, WI and the stop would have been about 4 blocks from my condo. They actually would have used the old C&NW station which still is standing and is in excellent condition (now private businesses). I guess the money was in place to improve the rail, but Scott Walker fought that and bogged down how Milwaukee County would pay for its share of the upkeep of the line once it started. The feds and the state wanted to have the line operating by 2009 when a major construction project was to begin (and did begin) on I-94 between Chicago and Milwaukee. But Walker was able to tow his "no raise in taxes" drum beat to keep the funding for the line stalled... and so it still sits. It's called the K-R-M project by the way (Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee).

Now, he is trying to kill this project to Madison if he's elected Governor... and it's just plain sad. Even though I'm an independent (who yes, leans a little more for the Dems)... WALKER WILL NOT HAVE MY VOTE!!!!

I am not sure how many people on this forum have ever had the chance to visit Milwaukee or Milwaukee County... but the public transportation here is piss poor... especially compared to Chicago. Come see for youself... PM me and maybe I'll even meet you for lunch up here!!

But here is just one example of why we need rail or atleast some other form of public transportation in Milwaukee County besides the poor service the bus lines give.

If I were to drive from my condo to Mitchell Int'l Airport it would take 15 minutes.

If I were to take the county bus system (and I actually have a bus line that stops right across from my condo too!!) it would take about 1 hour and 15 minutes... and I'd have to transfer buses 2 or 3 different times.

Just sad!

While I do think property taxes are high in Wisconsin and it would be nice not to see them go up (Scott Walker's line)... I wouldn't mind paying a little more to have better public transportation and to see more people riding trains around town.

Likewise, I'd be willing to pay a little more for a rail line between Milwaukee and Madison. While I'd probably one use it maybe 5 or 6 times a year myself (ok, maybe a little more for AGR point runs)... I think it would be a much needed like BETWEEN THE TWO LARGEST CITIES IN THE STATE. It would also be great for the 40,000 or so college students who attend UW in Madison and a lot of them live in the Milwaukee area and can't afford the high tuition there and a car.

 

[wayman]

"The county executive, a Republican candidate [scott Walker] for governor, said he might back the high-speed rail idea if "there was a model that could be shown where it was self-sufficient, where the operating costs were covered by the users." He acknowledged that also was unlikely."

Why should the entire operating cost be absorbed by the users? Seems to me there is a public benefit from having another mode of transportation. Even those who choose to drive benefit from fewer cars on the road and less pollution.

Are the public buses recovering 100% of operating costs from users?

If they claim "yes", just how are they measuring that? Are they calculating the percent of wear-and-tear on the roads the buses are responsible for, and factoring in the corresponding percent of the road maintenance budget as a "public bus operating expense"?

And if they fully acknowledge the answer is "no", how do they make the distinction between this being just fine for public buses but not for rail?

 

[Kramerica]

Scott Walker is not just anti-rail, but anti-transit. His "support" for express busses only goes as far as it needs to in order to block rail. The $91.5 million was divided up in March 2009 and there hasn't been a peep out of the county about the express busses it was wanting. Walker only supported them because that that politically more advantagous than just saying no. But now that there isn't anything he can do to oppose rail in Milwaukee, (since the city can do what it wants with their $54.9 million) he doesn't need to support express busses anymore. The proof is in the deafening silence.

A few years ago Scott Walker said that our goal should be that everyone in Milwaukee County is prospering so much that everyone can afford a car. THAT is his mindset. He does not see any value in transit.

 

[WICT106]

The funding clears its final hurdle on the way to completion:

Joint Finance Committee grants assent to Madison rail service.

Now, to get the construction underway before any of the anti-rail forces can stop it, or rescind funding. I'm not going to hold my breath until I actually see a train on the tracks, though.

 

[BigBlueBuddha]

The funding clears its final hurdle on the way to completion:
Joint Finance Committee grants assent to Madison rail service.

Now, to get the construction underway before any of the anti-rail forces can stop it, or rescind funding. I'm not going to hold my breath until I actually see a train on the tracks, though.

I am thrilled to read this article!! I hope to be taking this train to Madison several times a week from one of the intermediate stops, probably Oconomowoc, maybe Brookfield. Either station would be about a 20-25 mile drive for me from home, but my drive now is ~80 miles, plus the traffic stress. Goerke's Corners in Brookfield might be an ideal place for a station and also allow interfacing with the regional buses.