will Amtrak ever employ me i am trying to get into this industry

[Devil's Advocate]

Jobs that do not benefit from resumes often involve unskilled or semiskilled labor, which can be a dangerous a trap if you remain in such a job too long. It's best to learn a trade that cannot be taught in a few weeks or months. It's important to save those types of jobs for late in life when you're not as mentally sharp or physically dexterous and won't be needing as much money, assuming you've saved some up during your primary earning years. Then you can get a job where you do something rather basic in return for steep employee discounts that allow you to enjoy life and travel the world for less.

I honestly don't see the appeal of working in a sector that considers personal enthusiasm to be a substantial negative. What killed my own interest in railroading wasn't the anti-fan psychology of the hiring managers so much as the limitations of the seniority system. In the IT sector you can generally get whatever you're willing and able to negotiate on your own behalf. However, in railroad work you generally get whatever your seniority dictates, which would be somewhere between diddly and squat for the first several years of grunt work. That means you'd have little if any control over things like work schedule or vacation time. That's a bit of a deal breaker in my view. I like working normal business hours and having plenty of vacation time.

 

[cirdan]

That's a bit of a deal breaker in my view. I like working normal business hours and having plenty of vacation time.

True, but the railroad is a 24/7 business, and if you're going to work there that's something you accept. You can't shut a railroad down because its a public holiday or Sunday or past 5pm. railroaders know that and don't pretend otherwise.

Besides which, many people I know who work, not just on the railroad but also on the buses or in transit agencies, say that's the biggest plus about the job. They tell me they don't mind getting up at ungodly hours or working night shifts or holidays, and don't mind celebrating Christmas on the road (where the real camaraderie is) rather than with all the commercial hype and TV nonsense.

 

[user 1215]

So Amtrak won't like people who volunteer in a Railroad Museum?

Someone told me in the Museum who is one of the mangers said that "some people that were in the museum work in major Railroad companies like there was one who was in the museum is working on a major Railroad in the midwest" so with that i thought if Amtrak and these Railroads want people with experience then i should Volunteer for the museum, So i decided i had to join the museum so i could get familar with my career and where would it go with.

It's one thing to be a professional in an industry already and then volunteer at a museum. Quite a different story to be a volunteer trying to get into the industry - from an HR standpoint, anyway.

 

[cirdan]

So Amtrak won't like people who volunteer in a Railroad Museum?

Someone told me in the Museum who is one of the mangers said that "some people that were in the museum work in major Railroad companies like there was one who was in the museum is working on a major Railroad in the midwest" so with that i thought if Amtrak and these Railroads want people with experience then i should Volunteer for the museum, So i decided i had to join the museum so i could get familar with my career and where would it go with.

It depends what you do at the museum.

If you have a customer-facing function with some aspect of service, I think that is a plus. If maybe the museum gave you some safety-related and service-related training, that is a plus.

If your role at the museum is more about handing the tools to the guy who needs them and polishing the brass, it's probably not really relevant.

 

[cirdan]

I remember Ms. Ray, at Amtrak's HR main office in DC told me years ago. First thing, they do not want rail fans. Rail fans tend to be more distracted by operations than their own tasks and assignments. As a whole, most industry officials in other railroads have similar feelings. I even knew a couple of HR folks at RailAmerica and CSX who state they reject any applicant that even list model railroading, and railfanning as a hobby. (I know this will cheese a few rail fans off, but it's just the simple reality I have learned from HR personnel over the years in the industry)

Many long years ago, when I was much younger and had fewer scars and wrinkles, I did an internship not with an actual railroad but with a company doing maintenance and heavy engineering on railroad equipment. Maybe internee interviews are less stringent than real job interviews, but I wasn't aware at the time that being a railfan was a disadvantage and I mentioned the fact freely. The manager told me that it wasn't necesarily a plus, and I said, I understand, but i promise not to get distracted and that i am capable of remembering at all times that the job comes first and any personal interest takes second place to that, if at all. Then the manager replied, that's not really the issue he's concerned about. He was more concerned about safety and said they'd had interns in the past who'd started foaming out on a customer site and running around looking at stuff and photographing it without asking permission or any regard for safety. He said the customer had picked on the fact afterwards and was especially concerned about what would have happened had there been an accident. Now I would never have acted so irresponsibly and I'm sure most on this forum wouldn't. But maybe there are a couple of fomers out there who are giving a bad name to the rest of us.

Well, I did actually get that position and had a wonderful time. I guess about half the employees there were railfans although a lot of them acted as if this wasn't the case. We used to laugh about such talk as "I'm not a railfan, this is just my job", but as you got to know the guy better you'd learn he had a massive model railroad in his garage. There were a lot of folks like that.

 

[cirdan]

So Amtrak won't like people who volunteer in a Railroad Museum?

Someone told me in the Museum who is one of the mangers said that "some people that were in the museum work in major Railroad companies like there was one who was in the museum is working on a major Railroad in the midwest" so with that i thought if Amtrak and these Railroads want people with experience then i should Volunteer for the museum, So i decided i had to join the museum so i could get familar with my career and where would it go with.

Let me explain it this way: I used to hire a lot of people to work in customer service for a bookstore. When we asked people "Why do you want to work here?", people often answered "Because I love books!" That's the WRONG answer. When you work in a bookstore, you don't spend ANY time reading books - you spend all your time helping customers. If you want to work in a bookstore because you love books, then you'll probably spend too much time looking at books, and not enough time helping customers. Liking books a lot is a distraction when you're supposed to be helping customers.

I'm not so sure about that. If I ask the staff of a bookstore to advise me on what book might interest me, I would expect that person to be widely read themselves and to be able to give me first hand advice rather than quoting off a cribsheet that their manager gave them. If I ask the waiter in an up-market restaurant what wine goes best with the food I've ordered, again, I expect the waiter has some experience and knowledge of wines, and that can really only come from personal interest, motivation and development. If a tourist on the CZ asks the SCA what there is to see in Chicago, it might just help if the SCA has been there him or herself and is not just quoting from the Amtrak guide. If people just say what they are told in think in scripted dilagos, that shows up quite quickly and can reflect poorly on them and the company that employed them.

 

[Henry Kisor]

I've met locomotive engineers whose pride in what they do spills over into what can almost be called railfanning. One veteran engineer admitted he had a collection of videos of trains going Over the Hill on the old SP. A VIA engineer on The Canadian told colorful stories of the trains he'd ridden as a passenger around the world. They, however, were considerably different from the familiar mouth-breathing foamers we all know. I got the strong sense that when they were working they were professionals, not fans.

They appreciated railfans, but at a considerable distance. "They get in the way all the time," both said.

 

[shinkansen]

It's not annoying so much as it's hilarious. The longer this thread continues the more amusing it becomes. I guess you really can fool some of the people all of the time.

 

Have any of you considered that the writing skills required for your chosen field are not necessarily required to be an attendant for Amtrak? Perhaps you're creating a benchmark for Brylove7 that doesn't need to be reached.

 

I, too, have done a lot of hiring in the customer service field. However, writing skills were not something we looked for. Is an Amtrak attendant or conductor going to have to write a letter to a customer, or a press release? No. At best, they probably have to fill out some forms. You guys are creating a requirement for this job that probably doesn't exist.

 

IMHO, it has nothing to do with job skills, but has everything to do with making a good first impression. Grammar, spelling, style, etc, are all very important for the cover letter and resume when seeking any job.

Again, not all fields are like that. At our company, we frequently never even get resumes or cover letters - just applications. From looking at Amtrak's website, it looks similar - "If there is information you want us to consider, be sure it is in your application. A resume is not a substitute for a thorough and complete application. List the position number and title for which you are applying on your attached resume." That sure sounds like the application is more important than the resume, and an application is just fill-in-the-blank.

That is pretty much how OPM handles any federal job posting, regardless if it is for a job in a quasi-federal agency. (Amtrak, USPS) And OPM wants to see every thing you have ever done right down to the lemonaide stand when you were five yers old. Anything that strays off what OPM expects to see in a standard template, goes straight to the recycle bin.

Many long years ago, when I was much younger and had fewer scars and wrinkles, I did an internship not with an actual railroad but with a company doing maintenance and heavy engineering on railroad equipment. Maybe internee interviews are less stringent than real job interviews, but I wasn't aware at the time that being a railfan was a disadvantage and I mentioned the fact freely. The manager told me that it wasn't necesarily a plus, and I said, I understand, but i promise not to get distracted and that i am capable of remembering at all times that the job comes first and any personal interest takes second place to that, if at all. Then the manager replied, that's not really the issue he's concerned about. He was more concerned about safety and said they'd had interns in the past who'd started foaming out on a customer site and running around looking at stuff and photographing it without asking permission or any regard for safety. He said the customer had picked on the fact afterwards and was especially concerned about what would have happened had there been an accident. Now I would never have acted so irresponsibly and I'm sure most on this forum wouldn't. But maybe there are a couple of fomers out there who are giving a bad name to the rest of us.

Well, I did actually get that position and had a wonderful time. I guess about half the employees there were railfans although a lot of them acted as if this wasn't the case. We used to laugh about such talk as "I'm not a railfan, this is just my job", but as you got to know the guy better you'd learn he had a massive model railroad in his garage. There were a lot of folks like that.

I do not disagree at all with that. I've met many a career railroader who has turned railfan, or was "in the closet" so to speak before joining. I would go on to say half the members in my local model RR club worked for the B&O or WM at one point in time. Of course HR is a very different beast now, I would suffice to say compared to 25 or 50 years ago.

 

[BCL]

I do not disagree at all with that. I've met many a career railroader who has turned railfan, or was "in the closet" so to speak before joining. I would go on to say half the members in my local model RR club worked for the B&O or WM at one point in time. Of course HR is a very different beast now, I would suffice to say compared to 25 or 50 years ago.

We've got a local miniature steam train near where I live in the Berkeley Hills. The founder (deceased) used to be a mechanical engineer for the Western Pacific. The current chief engineer worked at Chevron for many years before retiring. I heard that several of the engineers worked for either ATSF and/or SP.

 

[the_traveler]

That's a bit of a deal breaker in my view. I like working normal business hours and having plenty of vacation time.

True, but the railroad is a 24/7 business, and if you're going to work there that's something you accept. You can't shut a railroad down because its a public holiday or Sunday or past 5pm. railroaders know that and don't pretend otherwise.

Besides which, many people I know who work, not just on the railroad but also on the buses or in transit agencies, say that's the biggest plus about the job. They tell me they don't mind getting up at ungodly hours or working night shifts or holidays, and don't mind celebrating Christmas on the road (where the real camaraderie is) rather than with all the commercial hype and TV nonsense.

I felt the exact same way when I worked in the hotel industry. I loved working holidays (Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, etc...) and overnights, especially New Year's Eve. I helped people being away from home for the holidays, and I found it to be more festive.

To paraphrase the MasterCard commercials, ".... Spreading joy during the holidays to travelers away from home: Priceless!"

 

[Devil's Advocate]

IT is a 24/7 sector as well. However, it's pretty rare to get a call at 2:00AM to start an 8-hour shift as soon as you can shower and drive to work. Most of the time you work standard business hours and after hours work is usually scheduled in advance. Even when something important does break in the middle of the night on a holiday you can usually get it back online from home or from your hotel or from the nearest coffee shop in the span of an hour or two. The main limitation is that unlike a railroad worker you can't really leave an IT job at work. It follows you wherever you go. Even if you're ten thousand miles away you still need a smartphone and a laptop nearby just in case something critical blows up.

 

[cirdan]

IT is a 24/7 sector as well. However, it's pretty rare to get a call at 2:00AM to start an 8-hour shift as soon as you can shower and drive to work. Most of the time you work standard business hours and after hours work is usually scheduled in advance. Even when something important does break in the middle of the night on a holiday you can usually get it back online from home or from your hotel or from the nearest coffee shop in the span of an hour or two. The main limitation is that unlike a railroad worker you can't really leave an IT job at work. It follows you wherever you go. Even if you're ten thousand miles away you still need a smartphone and a laptop nearby just in case something critical blows up.

It depends what you do on the railroad. I know people with railroad jobs a bit like that. They have to be on standby even when they're not working because a switch or a signal might fail and they have to be prepared to jump into the car at the shortest notice to drive hundreds of miles to some totally obscure location that isn't even on the map. Those people take great pride in what they do.

 

[BCL]

Well - I don't know if I was ever a railfan until recently. I became a father, my kid is nuts about trains, and I started working at a distance where a train commute can often work better than driving. I'd never even ridden Amtrak until last year and had very few experiences riding heavy passenger rail outside of the occasional Caltrain ride, a few amusement trips (Roaring Camp in Felton, CA, the excursion rides at the California State Railroad Museum, and of course the Disneyland Railroad), and a few instances of riding passenger rail outside of the US.

However, I used to have a summer and part-time college job in the freight moving industry. I remember doing all sorts of stuff, including checking on the status of containers and paying bills to the various services (truckers, rail, and sometimes even shipping companies). I remember calling up the automated phone numbers of ATSF, SP, BN, CSX, Conrail, BN, NS, etc to check on where a particular container was. One time I was tasked with hand-delivering a six-figure check (we negotiated a payment for hundreds of disputed invoices) to someone at Southern Pacific, which was only a few blocks away in San Francisco. It wasn't passenger rail, but I do remember I was extremely conscious every time I saw a freight train or modular container and recognized the company by the container code. I learned the lingo, including "chassis" and "stacktrain" (double-stacked containers on a single rail chassis). I also got to understand how much hazardous material was shipped on rails.

 

[Michael]

umm so how long will it take for Amtrak to review an application