You know Amtrak's "kindergarten walk" is ridiculous when

[MattW]

They don't do a "kindergarten walk" at London Euston, even though someone could easily get on the 21:07 to Liverpool or the 21:10 to Preston instead of the 21:16 sleeper to Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William, or the 23:30 to Wolverhampton instead of the 23:50 sleeper to Glasgow and Edinburgh. (And yes, the Aberdeen/Inverness/Fort William train is only six times a week, not even daily.) Similarly, there's nothing at London Paddington to stop passengers wanting the 23:45 sleeper to Penzance getting the 23:30 to Cardiff by mistake. None of these are commuter trains.

I can't imagine Amtrak passengers are any less capable of following signs, listening to announcements or watching monitors to British passengers (many of whom are unused to rail travel or at least the London terminals).

*SNIP*
As for Washington if you observe the gate there you would see why it is needed. There are always some trying to get on the wrong train or trying to get on who should not get on. Before they had the gate procedure there were robberies, pickpockets, bums, and crazy people who got on the train and caused delays down the line when the police had to be called. Late arriving passengers grabbing on to trains or trying to jump on while the trains were moving and huring themselves.

Amtrak's boarding procedures are not insane. Those objecting are armchair professors who fortunately will be ignored.

I won't debate the other points. But why isn't this a problem at New Carrolton? Or BWI? Or Newark? Or any of the other unguarded stations? If anything it should be worse since there's no concentration of police and less people around to observe all of that. So what makes the big terminals more of a risk for all of this than the smaller stations?

Or better yet, why isn't is all this a problem for MARC? They have a gate, but no one checks tickets until you're on the train.

 

[HAL]

They don't do a "kindergarten walk" at London Euston, even though someone could easily get on the 21:07 to Liverpool or the 21:10 to Preston instead of the 21:16 sleeper to Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William, or the 23:30 to Wolverhampton instead of the 23:50 sleeper to Glasgow and Edinburgh. (And yes, the Aberdeen/Inverness/Fort William train is only six times a week, not even daily.) Similarly, there's nothing at London Paddington to stop passengers wanting the 23:45 sleeper to Penzance getting the 23:30 to Cardiff by mistake. None of these are commuter trains.

I can't imagine Amtrak passengers are any less capable of following signs, listening to announcements or watching monitors to British passengers (many of whom are unused to rail travel or at least the London terminals).

*SNIP*
As for Washington if you observe the gate there you would see why it is needed. There are always some trying to get on the wrong train or trying to get on who should not get on. Before they had the gate procedure there were robberies, pickpockets, bums, and crazy people who got on the train and caused delays down the line when the police had to be called. Late arriving passengers grabbing on to trains or trying to jump on while the trains were moving and huring themselves.

Amtrak's boarding procedures are not insane. Those objecting are armchair professors who fortunately will be ignored.

I won't debate the other points. But why isn't this a problem at New Carrolton? Or BWI? Or Newark? Or any of the other unguarded stations? If anything it should be worse since there's no concentration of police and less people around to observe all of that. So what makes the big terminals more of a risk for all of this than the smaller stations?

Or better yet, why isn't is all this a problem for MARC? They have a gate, but no one checks tickets until you're on the train.

It happens but is a managable problem at New Carrolton, BWI and Newark because only 5 to 30 passengers board at those stops. There are not 200 to 300 passengers getting on like is possible at New York and Washington. The crew can see the boarding passengers. The crew is on the platform. Most passengers don't spread out much so the crew can verbaly say this is train such and such. Passengers boarding at those stations can ask a crew member on the platform if they have a question. Also at Newark and BWI its difficult to get on a train going in the wrong direction.

Most MARC passengers are commuters who ride every day and know the right trains. MARC does not care that much if you get on the wrong train because they won't get tht far. MARC also does not care that much if a few tickets are not collected. The fares are so low that it is a minor revenue loss. The trains are unreserved and they don't care if the passengers don't have a seat.

The boarding procedures at large stations like New York, Washington and Philadelphia should not be changed for security and safety reasons and for making sure passengers don't flub it. You can can gripe all you want and second guess but there are good reasons for the gate checks at those stations. If anything the gate check needs to be tightened up. (New York)

 

[jis]

The boarding procedures at large stations like New York, Washington and Philadelphia should not be changed for security and safety reasons and for making sure passengers don't flub it. You can can gripe all you want and second guess but there are good reasons for the gate checks at those stations. If anything the gate check needs to be tightened up. (New York)

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and hope that you don't get to a position to control such stuff, won't we?

 

[HAL]

The boarding procedures at large stations like New York, Washington and Philadelphia should not be changed for security and safety reasons and for making sure passengers don't flub it. You can can gripe all you want and second guess but there are good reasons for the gate checks at those stations. If anything the gate check needs to be tightened up. (New York)

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and hope that you don't get to a position to control such stuff, won't we?

HA HA HA .......you don't know the irony of your statement!

 

[Ryan]

So I've already pegged you as an insider, I guess that narrows it down a bit.

 

[jis]

Why do you suppose the was included?

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Green Maned Lion]

They don't do a "kindergarten walk" at London Euston, even though someone could easily get on the 21:07 to Liverpool or the 21:10 to Preston instead of the 21:16 sleeper to Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William, or the 23:30 to Wolverhampton instead of the 23:50 sleeper to Glasgow and Edinburgh. (And yes, the Aberdeen/Inverness/Fort William train is only six times a week, not even daily.) Similarly, there's nothing at London Paddington to stop passengers wanting the 23:45 sleeper to Penzance getting the 23:30 to Cardiff by mistake. None of these are commuter trains.

I can't imagine Amtrak passengers are any less capable of following signs, listening to announcements or watching monitors to British passengers (many of whom are unused to rail travel or at least the London terminals).

*SNIP*
As for Washington if you observe the gate there you would see why it is needed. There are always some trying to get on the wrong train or trying to get on who should not get on. Before they had the gate procedure there were robberies, pickpockets, bums, and crazy people who got on the train and caused delays down the line when the police had to be called. Late arriving passengers grabbing on to trains or trying to jump on while the trains were moving and huring themselves.

Amtrak's boarding procedures are not insane. Those objecting are armchair professors who fortunately will be ignored.

I won't debate the other points. But why isn't this a problem at New Carrolton? Or BWI? Or Newark? Or any of the other unguarded stations? If anything it should be worse since there's no concentration of police and less people around to observe all of that. So what makes the big terminals more of a risk for all of this than the smaller stations?

Or better yet, why isn't is all this a problem for MARC? They have a gate, but no one checks tickets until you're on the train.

It happens but is a managable problem at New Carrolton, BWI and Newark because only 5 to 30 passengers board at those stops. There are not 200 to 300 passengers getting on like is possible at New York and Washington. The crew can see the boarding passengers. The crew is on the platform. Most passengers don't spread out much so the crew can verbaly say this is train such and such. Passengers boarding at those stations can ask a crew member on the platform if they have a question. Also at Newark and BWI its difficult to get on a train going in the wrong direction.

Most MARC passengers are commuters who ride every day and know the right trains. MARC does not care that much if you get on the wrong train because they won't get tht far. MARC also does not care that much if a few tickets are not collected. The fares are so low that it is a minor revenue loss. The trains are unreserved and they don't care if the passengers don't have a seat.

The boarding procedures at large stations like New York, Washington and Philadelphia should not be changed for security and safety reasons and for making sure passengers don't flub it. You can can gripe all you want and second guess but there are good reasons for the gate checks at those stations. If anything the gate check needs to be tightened up. (New York)

Theres no need for a gate check at Newark for a very good reason. If you get on any train going outbound from New York, with the exception of a North Jersey Coast Line train, it will eventually take you where you can transfer to the correct train at Trenton. (I don't mention the RVL trains because if you manage to get on that, you are beyond clueless). Unless you miss a LD train, you probably aren't going to miss much of anything at all. You can transfer down the line to a train that can take you to Trenton, at which point you can transfer to an Amtrak train that can take you where you want to go.

If you are heading inbound, you can't possibly go wrong. Every single train departing Newark heading towards New York gets you to New York. More than that, if you miss an Amtrak train for another Amtrak train, the crew change in New York will mean you can probably still transfer to the right train. There generally aren't the huge ramifications of taking the wrong train from New York (they go out in all directions) or Chicago. I would assume Baltimore, and BWI are the same- they are in-line stations. You either go one stop in the wrong direction, or head to the right place.

There is no reason whatsoever tighten up New York platforms. Those who use the back way to get their train know the station like the back of their hand. They are experienced riders. They are unlikely to make mistakes, and when they do, I'd guess they blame their own idiocy.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The boarding procedures at large stations like New York, Washington and Philadelphia should not be changed for security and safety reasons and for making sure passengers don't flub it. You can can gripe all you want and second guess but there are good reasons for the gate checks at those stations. If anything the gate check needs to be tightened up. (New York)

Please do keep us informed as you work to bring more and more rules and restrictions into the equation. Perhaps you'll remove or delay those pesky arrivals boards? Can't have people circumventing the departures delay. More AmCops on duty and stationed near access points to track level? VIPR teams posing as redcaps? Maybe a permanent TSA security queue or two? I can't wait to see how much damage y'all can do.

 

[HAL]

They don't do a "kindergarten walk" at London Euston, even though someone could easily get on the 21:07 to Liverpool or the 21:10 to Preston instead of the 21:16 sleeper to Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William, or the 23:30 to Wolverhampton instead of the 23:50 sleeper to Glasgow and Edinburgh. (And yes, the Aberdeen/Inverness/Fort William train is only six times a week, not even daily.) Similarly, there's nothing at London Paddington to stop passengers wanting the 23:45 sleeper to Penzance getting the 23:30 to Cardiff by mistake. None of these are commuter trains.

I can't imagine Amtrak passengers are any less capable of following signs, listening to announcements or watching monitors to British passengers (many of whom are unused to rail travel or at least the London terminals).

*SNIP*
As for Washington if you observe the gate there you would see why it is needed. There are always some trying to get on the wrong train or trying to get on who should not get on. Before they had the gate procedure there were robberies, pickpockets, bums, and crazy people who got on the train and caused delays down the line when the police had to be called. Late arriving passengers grabbing on to trains or trying to jump on while the trains were moving and huring themselves.

Amtrak's boarding procedures are not insane. Those objecting are armchair professors who fortunately will be ignored.

I won't debate the other points. But why isn't this a problem at New Carrolton? Or BWI? Or Newark? Or any of the other unguarded stations? If anything it should be worse since there's no concentration of police and less people around to observe all of that. So what makes the big terminals more of a risk for all of this than the smaller stations?

Or better yet, why isn't is all this a problem for MARC? They have a gate, but no one checks tickets until you're on the train.

It happens but is a managable problem at New Carrolton, BWI and Newark because only 5 to 30 passengers board at those stops. There are not 200 to 300 passengers getting on like is possible at New York and Washington. The crew can see the boarding passengers. The crew is on the platform. Most passengers don't spread out much so the crew can verbaly say this is train such and such. Passengers boarding at those stations can ask a crew member on the platform if they have a question. Also at Newark and BWI its difficult to get on a train going in the wrong direction.

Most MARC passengers are commuters who ride every day and know the right trains. MARC does not care that much if you get on the wrong train because they won't get tht far. MARC also does not care that much if a few tickets are not collected. The fares are so low that it is a minor revenue loss. The trains are unreserved and they don't care if the passengers don't have a seat.

The boarding procedures at large stations like New York, Washington and Philadelphia should not be changed for security and safety reasons and for making sure passengers don't flub it. You can can gripe all you want and second guess but there are good reasons for the gate checks at those stations. If anything the gate check needs to be tightened up. (New York)

Theres no need for a gate check at Newark for a very good reason. If you get on any train going outbound from New York, with the exception of a North Jersey Coast Line train, it will eventually take you where you can transfer to the correct train at Trenton. (I don't mention the RVL trains because if you manage to get on that, you are beyond clueless). Unless you miss a LD train, you probably aren't going to miss much of anything at all. You can transfer down the line to a train that can take you to Trenton, at which point you can transfer to an Amtrak train that can take you where you want to go.

If you are heading inbound, you can't possibly go wrong. Every single train departing Newark heading towards New York gets you to New York. More than that, if you miss an Amtrak train for another Amtrak train, the crew change in New York will mean you can probably still transfer to the right train. There generally aren't the huge ramifications of taking the wrong train from New York (they go out in all directions) or Chicago. I would assume Baltimore, and BWI are the same- they are in-line stations. You either go one stop in the wrong direction, or head to the right place.

There is no reason whatsoever tighten up New York platforms. Those who use the back way to get their train know the station like the back of their hand. They are experienced riders. They are unlikely to make mistakes, and when they do, I'd guess they blame their own idiocy.

When I said if anything the gate procedures at New York should be tightened up I was being rhetorical. However so called experienced riders make plenty of mistakes. Also it is not just experienced riders that get down those back ways. It would be nice if they blamed their own idiocy, some do, but about the same amount are irate. And that is even when most crews make announcements on the train PA with the train number and destination. The expense of closing the back ways would not be worth it plus they are needed as exits. Changing the Amtrak boarding procedures at both New York and Washington to match what some have proposed to eliminate the gating is not practicable without costly renovations. We are stuck with outdated stations and platforms as I don't see a modernization happening for a long time.

 

[neroden]

The boarding procedures at large stations like New York, Washington and Philadelphia should not be changed for security and safety reasons and for making sure passengers don't flub it. You can can gripe all you want and second guess but there are good reasons for the gate checks at those stations. If anything the gate check needs to be tightened up. (New York)

I certainly hope you don't have a job at Amtrak. You don't have a clue how trains work. Matt Yglesias, like most of us, does.
I suggest you take a vacation and go spend some time taking trains across Europe -- or, better, Russia -- for a while. They have LOTS of outdated stations and platforms, and they don't pull this nonsense.

The procedures used at Chicago are demonstrably insane, as are the ones at Philadelphia. There are NO "security" reasons, security claims are just a case of "makin' **** up".

You may be able to argue "safety" at Washington or New York due to the huge crowds and danger of platform overcrowding; but not at Chicago or Philadelphia.

And as for nannying of the passengers because you're afraid they'll blame you if they get on the wrong train? Just cut it out.

Literally everywhere in the world, passengers know that you look up the departure time and track number for your train, and then follow the signs to the track and get on the train which is on that track at that time. If ***** passengers are annoyed by this, tough ****. At New York, with trains boarding on both sides of the same platform simultaneously, there might be issues.

I've never seen two trains boarding on the same platform in Chicago. Worse, the "gate" procedure at Chicago *doesn't even prevent people from getting on the wrong train* due to the crazy layout! The gates aren't actually connected to the platforms!

Changing the Amtrak boarding procedures at both New York and Washington to match what some have proposed to eliminate the gating is not practicable

I notice you pick out Washington and New York, which do arguably have platform overcrowding problems. Don't try to defend this nonsense at Chicago or Philadelphia. The procedures at Chicago need to be changed ASAP, since they actually CREATE overcrowding problems by creating long, snaking lines with associated delays.
If you're actually in charge of this, change it now.

Seattle procedures are also indefensible. (It's worth noting that the station was very neatly designed for open passenger flow to the platforms, which is being obstructed by the idiocy.)

One more thing: Thank goodness for LA, where common sense is prevailing and the train station is being run more and more the way it SHOULD be run -- like a train station.

 

[HAL]

The boarding procedures at large stations like New York, Washington and Philadelphia should not be changed for security and safety reasons and for making sure passengers don't flub it. You can can gripe all you want and second guess but there are good reasons for the gate checks at those stations. If anything the gate check needs to be tightened up. (New York)

I certainly hope you don't have a job at Amtrak. You don't have a clue how trains work. Matt Yglesias, like most of us, does.
I suggest you take a vacation and go spend some time taking trains across Europe -- or, better, Russia -- for a while. They have LOTS of outdated stations and platforms, and they don't pull this nonsense.

The procedures used at Chicago are demonstrably insane, as are the ones at Philadelphia. There are NO "security" reasons, security claims are just a case of "makin' **** up".

You may be able to argue "safety" at Washington or New York due to the huge crowds and danger of platform overcrowding; but not at Chicago or Philadelphia.

And as for nannying of the passengers because you're afraid they'll blame you if they get on the wrong train? Just cut it out.

Literally everywhere in the world, passengers know that you look up the departure time and track number for your train, and then follow the signs to the track and get on the train which is on that track at that time. If ***** passengers are annoyed by this, tough ****. At New York, with trains boarding on both sides of the same platform simultaneously, there might be issues.

I've never seen two trains boarding on the same platform in Chicago. Worse, the "gate" procedure at Chicago *doesn't even prevent people from getting on the wrong train* due to the crazy layout! The gates aren't actually connected to the platforms!

Changing the Amtrak boarding procedures at both New York and Washington to match what some have proposed to eliminate the gating is not practicable

I notice you pick out Washington and New York, which do arguably have platform overcrowding problems. Don't try to defend this nonsense at Chicago or Philadelphia. The procedures at Chicago need to be changed ASAP, since they actually CREATE overcrowding problems by creating long, snaking lines with associated delays.
If you're actually in charge of this, change it now.

Seattle procedures are also indefensible. (It's worth noting that the station was very neatly designed for open passenger flow to the platforms, which is being obstructed by the idiocy.)

One more thing: Thank goodness for LA, where common sense is prevailing and the train station is being run more and more the way it SHOULD be run -- like a train station.

The boarding procedures at large stations like New York, Washington and Philadelphia should not be changed for security and safety reasons and for making sure passengers don't flub it. You can can gripe all you want and second guess but there are good reasons for the gate checks at those stations. If anything the gate check needs to be tightened up. (New York)

I certainly hope you don't have a job at Amtrak. You don't have a clue how trains work. Matt Yglesias, like most of us, does.
I suggest you take a vacation and go spend some time taking trains across Europe -- or, better, Russia -- for a while. They have LOTS of outdated stations and platforms, and they don't pull this nonsense.

The procedures used at Chicago are demonstrably insane, as are the ones at Philadelphia. There are NO "security" reasons, security claims are just a case of "makin' **** up".

You may be able to argue "safety" at Washington or New York due to the huge crowds and danger of platform overcrowding; but not at Chicago or Philadelphia.

And as for nannying of the passengers because you're afraid they'll blame you if they get on the wrong train? Just cut it out.

Literally everywhere in the world, passengers know that you look up the departure time and track number for your train, and then follow the signs to the track and get on the train which is on that track at that time. If ***** passengers are annoyed by this, tough ****. At New York, with trains boarding on both sides of the same platform simultaneously, there might be issues.

I've never seen two trains boarding on the same platform in Chicago. Worse, the "gate" procedure at Chicago *doesn't even prevent people from getting on the wrong train* due to the crazy layout! The gates aren't actually connected to the platforms!

Changing the Amtrak boarding procedures at both New York and Washington to match what some have proposed to eliminate the gating is not practicable

I notice you pick out Washington and New York, which do arguably have platform overcrowding problems. Don't try to defend this nonsense at Chicago or Philadelphia. The procedures at Chicago need to be changed ASAP, since they actually CREATE overcrowding problems by creating long, snaking lines with associated delays.
If you're actually in charge of this, change it now.

Seattle procedures are also indefensible. (It's worth noting that the station was very neatly designed for open passenger flow to the platforms, which is being obstructed by the idiocy.)

One more thing: Thank goodness for LA, where common sense is prevailing and the train station is being run more and more the way it SHOULD be run -- like a train station.

To rest your mind at ease I am not in charge of boarding. You made a leap to come to that idea. However I do have more than a clue of how trains work. Matt Yglesias and you don't have much of a clue. Selfish people only think of themselves. Not others. There are good reasons why the boarding at New York, Philadelphia and Washington is done the way it is currently. I don't think Philadelphia boarding is insane. I don't know about Chicago but from you other opinions I doubt you opinion about Chicago.

I honestly have empathy for passengers who get on the wrong train even when it is their own fault, because unfortunately many stations are confusing for people who are not regular riders.

As far as taking trains in Europe. I have taken many vacations and trains in Europe. I have vacationed in Europe almost every year the last ten years. Including Russia.

 

[neroden]

Aw, you have empathy for passengers who get on the wrong train because it's their own fault. But not for the people forced to stand in snaking, overcrowded lines for 15 minutes at a time, or forced to find their way around the lines through the overcrowded waiting rooms, or whose trains are delayed by the bizarre boarding procedures. Selective empathy.

 

[PerRock]

I have yet to hear a reason (and I've heard a good few, not just in this thread) as to what makes boarding an Amtrak train so different then boarding an commuter train or an European train; which would explain why this policy is in place.

The best one I've heard that really sounds like the reasoning more then an excuse as to why to keep it; is that they want to make the boarding procedure as similar to an airline's as possible. But even so it doesn't really make that much sense to do it that way.

As to boarding the wrong train, well if/when someone does so, provided that there is signage & announcements (like most stations for commuters & internationals) there really isn't that much of an excuse the 'lost' person can make. While you might have some empathy, it is their fault for not reading the signs or listening to the announcements.

As to ticket checking, in a couple stations in Europe when I was over there they checked tickets before you got onto the platforms, however it was more like an airport security set-up or a subway station, everyone went thru the same turnstilles regardless of what train they were boarding. After passing thru they they were able to go to which ever platform they needed. You could have one guy going to track 3 and the next guy in line going to track 5. There were gate managers who there to help you thru if you needed it & you could ask them for assistance locating your train, if you needed it.

But this notion that we all are idiots & need to be walked to our seats or else we'll get lost, board the wrong train & then sue to company is just ridiculous. But some bloody signs up, make some announcements, and let us find our own way. I'm perfectly capable of figuring out what aisle the milk is on in my grocery store, I think I can figure out what train to get on.

peter

 

[HAL]

Aw, you have empathy for passengers who get on the wrong train because it's their own fault. But not for the people forced to stand in snaking, overcrowded lines for 15 minutes at a time, or forced to find their way around the lines through the overcrowded waiting rooms, or whose trains are delayed by the bizarre boarding procedures. Selective empathy.

Correct. I don't have empathy for you! I know your type. It is all Me Me Me....

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Children, children, this is the play nice sandbox.

 

[Rule G]

This has happened several times in Washington. Someone finds a way to get to the platform before the conductors have prepared the train for boarding. This person then boards them self, chooses a nice window seat ,and places their belongings on the seat next to them to discourage possible seat mates.

Then the conductor finds this person and tells them that the car they have chosen will not be on the platform at their destination station, and that they have to gather their stuff and move to another car.

Of course, none of is is the passengers fault. He will blame Amtrak for his inconvenience.

 

[jis]

That also can happen at any of the en route stations on the NEC where there is not a Conductor present at each door, and all doors do open at all stations with sufficient platform length at least on the Regionals and the Acelas. So this is not a huge problem except for someone who happens to be going to Aberdeen or Newark DE or such. So I think it is mostly a non-issue. For various reasons people have to move from one car to another and that is a small minority, and everyone knows that such happens. So another red herring IMHO.

The French and the Germans actually have the right idea in treating regional and high speed trains quite similarly to subways with assigned seat reservation and very good marking of car locations on the platform thrown in for at least the trains that either have reserved cars or are reservation obligatiore. Heck the door closing chime on the TGVs is exactly the same ones as on the Paris Metro and RER!

I agree that Amtrak does face a few infrastructure challenges in places like New York and Washington, and it is very good of them to provide guidance at designated gates for those that need them. However, there is no justification for them to go out of the way to block all other access to platforms, except perhaps as a jobs program in disguise. And what they do in Boston is utterly bizarre, and is almost visibly a jobs program for people until they happen to retire.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Aw, you have empathy for passengers who get on the wrong train because it's their own fault. But not for the people forced to stand in snaking, overcrowded lines for 15 minutes at a time, or forced to find their way around the lines through the overcrowded waiting rooms, or whose trains are delayed by the bizarre boarding procedures. Selective empathy.

Oh my gosh, you have to wait in line for 15 minutes! The horror!

 

[amamba]

Aw, you have empathy for passengers who get on the wrong train because it's their own fault. But not for the people forced to stand in snaking, overcrowded lines for 15 minutes at a time, or forced to find their way around the lines through the overcrowded waiting rooms, or whose trains are delayed by the bizarre boarding procedures. Selective empathy.

Oh my gosh, you have to wait in line for 15 minutes! The horror!

It's fine for me, but it's not fine for the elderly or other folks that have difficulty standing for extended periods of time.

 

[Ryan]

It's also not fine in that it's completely unnecessary in many cases.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Aw, you have empathy for passengers who get on the wrong train because it's their own fault. But not for the people forced to stand in snaking, overcrowded lines for 15 minutes at a time, or forced to find their way around the lines through the overcrowded waiting rooms, or whose trains are delayed by the bizarre boarding procedures. Selective empathy.

Oh my gosh, you have to wait in line for 15 minutes! The horror!

If you arrive at NYP an hour before departure and are unfamiliar with the barely functional design and the necessary workarounds (which the signs will NOT help with) then you may end up standing and waiting under the big departures sign for fifty plus minutes followed by a five minute mad dash to the tracks. This is not an efficient system. To my understanding the NYP process is not duplicated by any other country on Earth. NYP succeeds because of the location and the network tied to it. The station itself is a genuine disgrace for those who are seeing it for the first time.

 

[jis]

An oasis with one muddy watering hole will succeed (be able to show huge camel* traffic) in the middle of a desert merely due to the existence of water, even muddy water. Not because the oasis is particularly attractive otherwise. And furthermore, it will continue to be heavily used even if Camel Amtrak* imposes a rule that all camels* must stand in a line, salute the gate meister and pay a 5 Rials or Shekel or whatever fee before accessing said mud hole. Such is the nature of things in a land of famine and water shortage. This will last until Camel Keolis* or even Camel Amtrak++* is allowed to dig a tubewell next door and start providing better access and service, as a result of change of regulations and resources making such possible. But until that happens you got what you got.

*All names of organizations and creatures are fictitious and used merely as an illustrative device.

 

[user 1215]

The French and the Germans actually have the right idea in treating regional and high speed trains quite similarly to subways with assigned seat reservation and very good marking of car locations on the platform thrown in. heck the door closing chime on the TGVs is exactly the same ones as on the Paris Metro and RER!

As does Japan.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

HAL. Let me give you a perceptive of some one whom has many disabilitys . and whom has been on rails for more then 5 years..

SEA king street .. For the love of god HIRE a real person to use a nice voice whom can use a PA the right way . . every airport I have been in has had good sound system. For alll I care the station is nice to look at inside but might as well be a amshack as far a useability ,

CUS .... Look I am autistic and cant hear well with all that back ground noise . I had to ask a few staff and Funny a amtrak policewomen was the BEST ever at helping me and she was VERY polite unlike the other two with a "Chicago tude "

If you want to consider CUS as a MAJOR hub you would be Better off to put the best there that shine .

I have NO problem with lines and the like . but the Staff need to polite and not rude . unlike some grumpy old man at SAC .

give the guest interaction jobs to those whom are excited to work for you and have a smile . you dont have to be a rude cranky person to command people . Heck some skill building classes might be of use to the front line staff .

Case in Point . For me . If there were WAY better PAs and anouncements then being AT the platform to make shure I am at the train when its Readdy . I would put more faith in the staffs hands ...And there for be more OK with waiting and the like .

 

[neroden]

It's fine for me, but it's not fine for the elderly or other folks that have difficulty standing for extended periods of time.

Indeed. I became much more alert to this sort of nonsense since I started dating someone with arthritis.
At stations where normal boarding procedures are used, one heads for the platform when the train is called, and then gets on the train. Even at very crowded stations, I've never had problems.

At Chicago in coach with Amtrak's lunatic boarding procedures, it became imperative for *me* to shove to the front of the line, repeatedly yell "Disabled passenger!" and generally make waves in order to get my fiancee treated decently. I don't know what she'd do by herself -- probably take a taxi to the next station which didn't have the insane procedures.

But HAL doesn't really care about the passengers; he just cares about making excuses for whatever procedure Amtrak is currently, pointlessly, thoughtlessly doing.