You know Amtrak's "kindergarten walk" is ridiculous when

[Railroad Bill]

We just departed NYP last Monday on 181 at 6am. We arrived at the station at 5:30am, went to the waiting room; had a snack from our Hampton Inn Early Breakfast bag; heard the announcement at 5:55am to board at Gate 14; got up and walked to a line formed at that gate; showed our E ticket to the attendant at the top of the escalator; rode down the escalator; and found numerous seats on a car near the cafe car; train left on time at 6:10am..welcomed by the conductor who scanned our ticket and gave us information about getting off the train in Maryland;

Seemed like an orderly affair to me.

Some of this group needs to slow down; enjoy life more; and not complain about everything

 

[Devil's Advocate]

We just departed NYP last Monday on 181 at 6am. We arrived at the station at 5:30am, went to the waiting room; had a snack from our Hampton Inn Early Breakfast bag; heard the announcement at 5:55am to board at Gate 14; got up and walked to a line formed at that gate; showed our E ticket to the attendant at the top of the escalator; rode down the escalator; and found numerous seats on a car near the cafe car; train left on time at 6:10am..welcomed by the conductor who scanned our ticket and gave us information about getting off the train in Maryland; Seemed like an orderly affair to me. Some of this group needs to slow down; enjoy life more; and not complain about everything

We all judge things in our own way. Those of us who have seen it done better elsewhere would like to see improvements made here as well. Other folks are happy with the current setup and either don't know that some folks find NYP needlessly confusing or simply don't care that there are other solutions available. If it makes you feel any better I can say without any doubt in my mind that NYP is not going to change. Barring some sort of disaster it will remain much as it is today for as long as any of us shall live.

 

[andersone]

I have found the most effective phrase for getting through a crowd is to firmly say (not shout) "Woman with child". Moses didn't part 'em any better.

 

[jis]

We just departed NYP last Monday on 181 at 6am. We arrived at the station at 5:30am, went to the waiting room; had a snack from our Hampton Inn Early Breakfast bag; heard the announcement at 5:55am to board at Gate 14; got up and walked to a line formed at that gate; showed our E ticket to the attendant at the top of the escalator; rode down the escalator; and found numerous seats on a car near the cafe car; train left on time at 6:10am..welcomed by the conductor who scanned our ticket and gave us information about getting off the train in Maryland;

Seemed like an orderly affair to me.

Some of this group needs to slow down; enjoy life more; and not complain about everything

Interesting when a 6am train boarding is used an a single example to come to the conclusion that it is OK.

 

[user 1215]

We just departed NYP last Monday on 181 at 6am. We arrived at the station at 5:30am, went to the waiting room; had a snack from our Hampton Inn Early Breakfast bag; heard the announcement at 5:55am to board at Gate 14; got up and walked to a line formed at that gate; showed our E ticket to the attendant at the top of the escalator; rode down the escalator; and found numerous seats on a car near the cafe car; train left on time at 6:10am..welcomed by the conductor who scanned our ticket and gave us information about getting off the train in Maryland;

Seemed like an orderly affair to me.

Some of this group needs to slow down; enjoy life more; and not complain about everything

Interesting when a 6am train boarding is used an a single example to come to the conclusion that it is OK.

Yes, I've had the same experience as Railroad Bill on the 6:30 Palmetto. Very nice, indeed. On a Saturday, no less. But I can ONLY imagine what it's like at 8 AM on a Monday Morning or 5 PM on a Friday afternoon...

 

[Railroad Bill]

I realize that not all trains throughout the day will run smoothly. I guess my point is that there seems to be a lot of whining about standing in lines..following directions..when in many cases the system does work and people get to their destinations.

We have not found the procedures to be irritating as some here have. The older you get..the more you learn to not sweat about the little things. Smile!!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I realize that not all trains throughout the day will run smoothly. I guess my point is that there seems to be a lot of whining about standing in lines..following directions..when in many cases the system does work and people get to their destinations. We have not found the procedures to be irritating as some here have. The older you get..the more you learn to not sweat about the little things. Smile!!

It really doesn't sound like you have a dog in this fight. You're just posting that it worked well for you as is. Then you go on to call the critics whiners because they shouldn't be questioning authority or they're not smiling enough or whatever the problem is. It's not clear to me if you've traveled on trains in Europe or Asia. If you haven't then giving it a try might open your mind to new options and possibilities. Or maybe you'd be really confused and end up on the wrong train without someone telling you what to do and when to do it.

 

[MikefromCrete]

I realize that not all trains throughout the day will run smoothly. I guess my point is that there seems to be a lot of whining about standing in lines..following directions..when in many cases the system does work and people get to their destinations. We have not found the procedures to be irritating as some here have. The older you get..the more you learn to not sweat about the little things. Smile!!

It really doesn't sound like you have a dog in this fight. You're just posting that it worked well for you as is. Then you go on to call the critics whiners because they shouldn't be questioning authority or they're not smiling enough or whatever the problem is. It's not clear to me if you've traveled on trains in Europe or Asia. If you haven't then giving it a try might open your mind to new options and possibilities. Or maybe you'd be really confused and end up on the wrong train without someone telling you what to do and when to do it.

Wow, Devil, calm down. You're getting pretty excited about this. Everybody has their own opinion. No need to jump over somebody who has a different viewpoint that you do. I mean if you want to find a secret way to get around Amtrak's boarding procedures, then do so. Other people don't mind the horrible "standing in line" and "kindergarten walks." Of course a world traveler like yourself probably knows your way around all the railway stations, bus depots and airports of the world and would never make a mistake.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

People have the right to their own opinion. Some of us are of the opinion that the descent of this country into a police stare is not what's best for it. Some of us are of the opinion that we should grin and bear it because it could be worse and were just sweating the small stuff. I personally am of the opinion that putting up with increasing abuse and control is symptomatic of the lazy, unimaginative, apathy that is driving this country on to the rocks. But hey. This is a forum for expressing opinions, no?

 

[Railroad Bill]

I realize that not all trains throughout the day will run smoothly. I guess my point is that there seems to be a lot of whining about standing in lines..following directions..when in many cases the system does work and people get to their destinations. We have not found the procedures to be irritating as some here have. The older you get..the more you learn to not sweat about the little things. Smile!!

It really doesn't sound like you have a dog in this fight. You're just posting that it worked well for you as is. Then you go on to call the critics whiners because they shouldn't be questioning authority or they're not smiling enough or whatever the problem is. It's not clear to me if you've traveled on trains in Europe or Asia. If you haven't then giving it a try might open your mind to new options and possibilities. Or maybe you'd be really confused and end up on the wrong train without someone telling you what to do and when to do it.

I am always in favor of making a situation better and there were many viewpoints presented in the thread that did just that. But I also read several comments that just "whined" about the situation and how they just can't stand being told what to do. Those were the comments I was addressing, not the entire purpose of the thread. The experts here seem to indicate that structural situations at some stations do not allow for the changes that have been suggested.

If Amtrak all of a sudden decided to prohibit us from standing on the platforms at Cleveland, take pictures or wait outside on the platform for the train to come, I would see that as a bit extreme. But CLE is not NYP, WAS, BOS, CUS. It would seem that Amtrak wants to control those platforms, gates, etc for various reasons, some may be legitimate in most people's minds; some may be considered a violations of a "civil right". That is o.k. Whatever floats your boat

And you are correct, we do not spend time in those large cities everyday and thus the frustration some of you experience, is not a part of our Amtrak experience. I only wanted to point out that for travelers who are tourists in your towns, things generally seemed to work well for us in those aforementioned cities. As a former teacher, I can identify with "kindergartners"

Hope I have not rumpled too many feathers.

 

[TVRM610]

I realize that not all trains throughout the day will run smoothly. I guess my point is that there seems to be a lot of whining about standing in lines..following directions..when in many cases the system does work and people get to their destinations. We have not found the procedures to be irritating as some here have. The older you get..the more you learn to not sweat about the little things. Smile!!

It really doesn't sound like you have a dog in this fight. You're just posting that it worked well for you as is. Then you go on to call the critics whiners because they shouldn't be questioning authority or they're not smiling enough or whatever the problem is. It's not clear to me if you've traveled on trains in Europe or Asia. If you haven't then giving it a try might open your mind to new options and possibilities. Or maybe you'd be really confused and end up on the wrong train without someone telling you what to do and when to do it.

I am always in favor of making a situation better and there were many viewpoints presented in the thread that did just that. But I also read several comments that just "whined" about the situation and how they just can't stand being told what to do. Those were the comments I was addressing, not the entire purpose of the thread. The experts here seem to indicate that structural situations at some stations do not allow for the changes that have been suggested.

I'm not sure which camp I fall into... but I would like to be in both camps. I do NOT like to be told what to do, nobody does. "Please proceed to boarding location 5" is not being told what to do. Lining people up for a kindergarden walk for no reason like in LA Union is silly... the coach process in Chicago Union is absolute insanity. But in NYC? I don't see much room for improvement... Washington DC doesn't make sense but it's set up to handle the system... meaning each gate has it's own little waiting room that leads to the checkpoint... the system itself doesn't make sense to me, but the boarding area was designed to handle it well (unlike Chicago).

My point is... each Amtrak station is unique. Some stations have systems that make total sense to me, some have systems that work but I would personally design different if I was given the authority, and some (like Chicago Union) are along the lines of what were they smoking when they thought this was a good idea!?

NYP is a pretty crazy place. I really don't get Devils Advocate's issue... what he wants is exactly what NJ Transit does at NYP.. nothing is stopping anyone from going down to the platforms.. but they can't go down till the trains get posted unless they have a crystal ball (or a radio scanner). And since the trains don't get posted until 10 minutes prior (which is a NYP issue.. the place is just that busy) it's a mad dash down the escalators or stairs. It really doesn't seem like that much better of a system than Amtrak... only difference is Amtrak has the agent checking tickets.. which to me creates a more orderly line and also makes me feel a little less rushed since it creates a natural spacing on the escalators.

Also.. Amtrak knows this is an issue.. that's why they want the Moynihan Project!

 

[Rule G]

It's kinda like walking into a restaurant and ignoring the "please wait to be seated" sign. Grabbing any seat you want and then bitching because you don't get stellar service.

When you own the "restaurant," or railroad, then you can make the rules.

 

[neroden]

My point is... each Amtrak station is unique. Some stations have systems that make total sense to me, some have systems that work but I would personally design different if I was given the authority, and some (like Chicago Union) are along the lines of what were they smoking when they thought this was a good idea!?

It's really Chicago which frustrates me, mostly. Chicago could easily be run pretty much exactly like LA, quite successfully. But it isn't.

 

[JayPea]

I agree wholeheartedly about Chicago, particularly the boarding of the coach passengers. Fortunately it's been a dozen years since I boarded coach in Chicago, but it was then, and for the several times I'd done it prior, nothing short of a madhouse. It was a case of every man for himself. Total chaos. Much like herding cats. And it doesn't sound as if that part of it has changed much, if at all.

 

[user 1215]

My point is... each Amtrak station is unique. Some stations have systems that make total sense to me, some have systems that work but I would personally design different if I was given the authority, and some (like Chicago Union) are along the lines of what were they smoking when they thought this was a good idea!?

It's really Chicago which frustrates me, mostly. Chicago could easily be run pretty much exactly like LA, quite successfully. But it isn't.

It was actually LAX where I first felt that I was a part of a ridiculous Kindergarten Walk. Commuters were going all around doing their business, walking to platforms, etc. I had the misfortune of asking which platform the Southwest Chief departed from, and I was told to hang out behind a sign until I would be walked to my train (with a nice line following).

Metrolink passengers are smart, and Amtrak passengers are dumb it seemed.

 

[neroden]

My point is... each Amtrak station is unique. Some stations have systems that make total sense to me, some have systems that work but I would personally design different if I was given the authority, and some (like Chicago Union) are along the lines of what were they smoking when they thought this was a good idea!?

It's really Chicago which frustrates me, mostly. Chicago could easily be run pretty much exactly like LA, quite successfully. But it isn't.

It was actually LAX where I first felt that I was a part of a ridiculous Kindergarten Walk. Commuters were going all around doing their business, walking to platforms, etc. I had the misfortune of asking which platform the Southwest Chief departed from, and I was told to hang out behind a sign until I would be walked to my train (with a nice line following).

Metrolink passengers are smart, and Amtrak passengers are dumb it seemed.

Yeah, that silliness in LA boarding was no good either... thankfully it seems to be going away.

 

[MARC Rider]

As for Washington if you observe the gate there you would see why it is needed. There are always some trying to get on the wrong train or trying to get on who should not get on. Before they had the gate procedure there were robberies, pickpockets, bums, and crazy people who got on the train and caused delays down the line when the police had to be called. Late arriving passengers grabbing on to trains or trying to jump on while the trains were moving and huring themselves.

The gate checkers at Washington didn't start until some time after 9/11. Before that time, you could just walk out to the train when the track was called, nobody checked your ticket. In fact, up until 2003 or 2004 or so, most of the Northeast Regional trains were unreserved. I remember taking a walk out to the platform in 1993 just to take a look at the consist of the Montrealer, which was sitting there, taking on passengers. No one stopped my from walking out the platform to hang around and look at the trains. Of course, the MARC trains load to this day without any gate check, and you don't hear too many stories about some poor schlub ending up in Harper's Ferry when he wanted to go the Baltimore, in fact I've never heard such a story. And at about the same time they started the ticket-checking nonsense for Amtrak, they also started evicting MARC passengers from hanging around in the trainshed by Gate A. This has just backed up the crowd into the concourse, just moving whatever security vulnerabilities that might have existed into a higher traffic area, And as far as pickpockets, bums, and crazy people, I'm not sure which alternate universe contains a WUS crawling with such characters, in the one in which I've been riding through Union Station since the late 1980s, those sort of people are really not that common, and certainly not on the platforms, with or without the gate n@z-- er, "dragons."

 

[Barciur]

I attempted this today in Philly:

The staircase opposite your gate is almost always open and leads to the same track. Go down that, and you beat the line. Sometimes they close it off, so it doesn't always work. But most of the time you are golden!

And immediately had an AMTRAK employee chasing after me and telling me not to go down the stairs. Oh well.

I was travelling from NYP and stepped off to buy a drink, so I just went to the proper gate and ignored the line. Which leads me to thinking: what if I just did that every time even travelling from PHL? The conductor didn't say anything, so he wouldn't know since the crews change.

 

[SarahZ]

I agree wholeheartedly about Chicago, particularly the boarding of the coach passengers. Fortunately it's been a dozen years since I boarded coach in Chicago, but it was then, and for the several times I'd done it prior, nothing short of a madhouse. It was a case of every man for himself. Total chaos. Much like herding cats. And it doesn't sound as if that part of it has changed much, if at all.

It's pretty much the same. They line the coach passengers up in that miserable little waiting room and then send them to Platform X. The gates aren't connected to the platform, so I don't understand why you have to go through the waiting room first. Once you get past the gate dragon, you can run to pretty much any platform you want.

Chicago has displays like the airports, with the trains and gates listed. Additionally, the platforms have a sign with the train's name and several destination cities on it right next to the door. It's not hard.

I sometimes wonder what would happen if I hung out in the generic area near the platforms and then boarded from there once they called our train. I'm a ticketed passenger, so it's not like I'm breaking a rule by going through the platform doors. Also, they don't scan tickets (for the Wolverine) at the gate itself, so it's not like my ticket wouldn't get lifted.

 

[CHamilton]

House GOP bill would force Amtrak to rethink its insane boarding process

Sandy Johnston at the Itinerant Urbanist blog found something very interesting lurking in a House GOP bill that would cut Amtrak subsidies while advancing various policy reforms — a review of the dread boarding procedures.

 

[Blackwolf]

Somehow I get this vision of a Congressman wearing a suit of armor, squaring off at a smoke-billowing snarling Gate Dragon...

 

[MattW]

Regardless of what happens to the rest of the bill, I dearly hope that section stays intact.

 

[Ryan]

I don't. Congress needs to learn to keep their hands off the stupid micromanaging, especially if they're not going to provide adequate funding. Crappy micromanagement is still crappy, even if we happen to agree with what they claim they're trying to accomplish.

This is in no way a defense of the crappy boarding process, that needs to be fixed, but not by a meddling bunch of idiots.

 

[user 1215]

I don't. Congress needs to learn to keep their hands off the stupid micromanaging, especially if they're not going to provide adequate funding. Crappy micromanagement is still crappy, even if we happen to agree with what they claim they're trying to accomplish.

This is in no way a defense of the crappy boarding process, that needs to be fixed, but not by a meddling bunch of idiots.

I hardly think that ordering an evaluation is on par with micromanaging. They aren't telling them to change - only to evaluate and justify, if you will, their current policy.

I think it's written well - compare your boarding process to everyone else's.

 

[jis]

I don't. Congress needs to learn to keep their hands off the stupid micromanaging, especially if they're not going to provide adequate funding. Crappy micromanagement is still crappy, even if we happen to agree with what they claim they're trying to accomplish.

This is in no way a defense of the crappy boarding process, that needs to be fixed, but not by a meddling bunch of idiots.

In my experience, this particular form of micro-management raises its head when it is found by many that the management bureaucracy is non-responsive for whatever reason. It is not at all unusual to have such issues taken to legislatures in various states after the well meaning advocates have bashed their heads bloody against a non-responsive bureaucracy. The Amtrak bureaucracy is answerable only to the federal legislature, so I personally don't see anything wrong with such things coming up in the legislature provided other paths of getting the attention of the bureaucracy have been exhausted. So I guess I do respectfully, disagree with Ryan and perhaps many others on this one. Of course it also helps if the legislature has any credibility at all about anything.

Bottom line is that we the people have but a few recourses. We could go through Customer Relations, which apparently couldn't care less about this issue. We could appeal to Mr. Boardman, who in my reckoning is quite aware of these things and chooses not to do anything about it for whatever reason. Or we could appeal to the paymasters, our representatives who control the funding. Of course unintended consequences of the latter could be viscous too. Anyhow, for this reason I am unwilling to rule out taking matters to the legislature under all circumstances.