Atlantic Coast (Silver/Palmetto/Carolinian) Service discussion Q4 2023 - 2024

[joelkfla]

I recall backing into the Jacksonville Union station. I guess that doesn't happen any more anywhere.

The station building is now a convention center. The only think left of the station tracks and platforms is a couple of short sections of concrete. I think they might be where the pedestrian tunnel exits were.

 

[west point]

What is needed for Amtrak to meet the cruise market is for the Palmetto to be extended to MIA preferably on the FEC, That would allow for plenty of time to make same day connections to a cruise ship all the way from Melbourne to MIA, But that trip would need many sleepers and that isn't happening any time soon.

 

[blueman271]

What is needed for Amtrak to meet the cruise market is for the Palmetto to be extended to MIA preferably on the FEC, That would allow for plenty of time to make same day connections to a cruise ship all the way from Melbourne to MIA, But that trip would need many sleepers and that isn't happening any time soon.

Anyone that books a same day cruise connection, regardless of how they travel, is asking for trouble and setting themselves up for failure.

While there is probably a case for Amtrak to reinstate a third NYP-MIA train I doubt that cruise traffic is it. Furthermore, the time for Amtrak to negotiate running on the FEC has probably come and gone. There were rumors years ago, in the early 2000’s, that one of the Silvers was going to split in Jacksonville and run down the FEC. The Melbourne station was going to be near the airport and the airport listed Amtrak service as coming soon on its ground transportation page. This obviously never happened and I doubt FEC would let a competitor onto its tracks at this point.

 

[Palmland]

This obviously never happened and I doubt FEC would let a competitor onto its tracks at this point.

I don't think Amtrak would compete with Brightline if they were 'stops only to discharge passengers' West Palm and south. Where they would compete is for track time and would probably get a priority behind Brightline, Tri-iRail, and FEC. I know CSX/Amtrak ran an inspection train down the FEC when this was being discussed in the early 2000's, as noted. Having the Meteor on this route would have made a lot of sense with a bigger Star handling the Orlando, Tampa traffic. When the East Coast Champion ran via the FEC it took 5hrs 30min for JAX to West Palm with stops in St. Augustine, Daytona, Neew Smyrna, Titusville, Melbourne, Vero, Ft. Pierce, Stuart. Today's Meteor takes 7hrs 50min running via Orlando.

 

[zephyr17]

One thing is Amtrak cannot force their way onto the FEC using their statutory track access rights, because they don't have any on FEC.

 

[jis]

I don't think Amtrak would compete with Brightline if they were 'stops only to discharge passengers' West Palm and south. Where they would compete is for track time and would probably get a priority behind Brightline, Tri-iRail, and FEC. I know CSX/Amtrak ran an inspection train down the FEC when this was being discussed in the early 2000's, as noted. Having the Meteor on this route would have made a lot of sense with a bigger Star handling the Orlando, Tampa traffic. When the East Coast Champion ran via the FEC it took 5hrs 30min for JAX to West Palm with stops in St. Augustine, Daytona, New Smyrna, Titusville, Melbourne, Vero, Ft. Pierce, Stuart. Today's Meteor takes 7hrs 50min running via Orlando.

Someone has to find the many tens of millions of dollars to build the infill stations on the FECR route.

For several reasons Amtrak most likely need to get to its station in Hialeah or MIC at the Airport for which they will have to move over to the Tri-Rail route using the Northwoods Connection north of West Palm Beach, so in a manner of speaking they would not be competing with Brightline between Miami and West Palm Beach anyway. In any case I doubt that Brightline would care if a single train competed with them. They have and will continue to have a hopeless over demand problem for quite some time to come.

And yes, indeed Amtrak does not any statutory right to have access to FECR, but that does not mean a suitable business arrangement cannot be struck up, though the obstacles are many to overcome.

 

[zephyr17]

And yes, indeed Amtrak does not any statutory right to have access to FECR, but that does not mean a suitable business arrangement cannot be struck up, though they obstacles are many to overcome.

Yes, of course, but if FEC doesn't want to host them, because of Brightline or whatever reason, they can say "no" and make it stick. That's something that a lot of host railroads wish they had.

 

[railiner]

Having the Meteor on this route would have made a lot of sense with a bigger Star handling the Orlando, Tampa traffic. When the East Coast Champion ran via the FEC it took 5hrs 30min for JAX to West Palm with stops in St. Augustine, Daytona, Neew Smyrna, Titusville, Melbourne, Vero, Ft. Pierce, Stuart. Today's Meteor takes 7hrs 50min running via Orlando

When the Orange Blossom Special ran its all-SAL route from Jacksonville, it stopped at Wildwood, Winter Haven, West Lake Wales, Avon Park, and Sebring, arriving in West Palm Beach in just 5 hours and 23 minutes…

 

[Palmland]

When the Orange Blossom Special ran its all-SAL route from Jacksonville, it stopped at Wildwood, Winter Haven, West Lake Wales, Avon Park, and Sebring, arriving in West Palm Beach in just 5 hours and 23 minutes…

Those were the days when railroads competed for passenger business. Amtrak seems to be motivated by cost control and hands off management of day to day operations.

 

[Jdub]

Just booked NB 9811 ( is this VL 1--probably?) and SB 9712 ( is this VL 2? probably?) Not a fan of VL 2..will change if the option exists.

 

[railiner]

When the Orange Blossom Special ran its all-SAL route from Jacksonville, it stopped at Wildwood, Winter Haven, West Lake Wales, Avon Park, and Sebring, arriving in West Palm Beach in just 5 hours and 23 minutes…

Just noticed that the June 1941 Silver Meteor ran Jacksonville to West Palm Beach in just 5 hours and 6 minutes!
And did it with three more stops (Starke, Waldo, and Ocala) than the OBS did in my 1953 comparison…