Long Distance (LD) fleet replacement RFP discussion H1 2024

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Weren't dedicated lounges limited to passengers in Pullman sleeping cars on most railroads back in the day? Having supplemental revenue space would be lounge cars more practical, but it wouldn't surprise me if they ended up only on the 2-day routes and the Coast Starlight.
Coach passengers do not want sky lit coach seats. This was a major complaint of the privately run Autotrain, with full domes repurposed as overnight coaches.

So, no it does not mitigate it at all. And yes, there is something to stop use of the sleeper lounge car for coach passengers - it means coach passengers constantly traipsing back and forth through the diner to get to the lounge, and no longer use the diner as a buffer to prevent their trespassing into the sleepers. It will not happen. Even if management supports it, which they will not, OBS will not permit it. OBS have creative ways of using cardboard boxes to block people from where they do not want them to go while they know managment is a habitual absentee landlord and wouldn't have it any other way.

The sightseer lounge can be standing room only through the most scenic mountain ranges on the Starlight, Zephyr and Empire Builder, is a popular feature car, but would have no replacement. Every LD consist with a lounge car and a diner has the diner against the sleepers.

Amtrak clearly wants coach passengers to stay in their seats at all times except when fetching food as in a corridor train, having no concept of long distance train realities. This entire cafe/lounge/diner design is disaster and unacceptable. While reinventing the wheel in their little bubble, they made it a triangle.

No wonder it takes a FOIA request to see the sordid details. I'd be ashamed of it too.
 
Dedicated sleeper lounge should not come at the expense of a lounge car for everyone.

What they have come up with is the equivalent of a 35000-series "panic box" snack coach, the diner, and Pacific Parlor car. No Sightseer car replacement. Imagine if Amtrak now decided to make the Sightesser open to sleeper passengers only, and coach passengers relegated to the lower level of the 35000-series car counter and nowhere to go but back to your seat.
 
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Dedicated sleeper lounge should not come at the expense of a lounge car for everyone.

What they have come up with is the equivalent of a 35000-series "panic box" snack coach, the diner, and Pacific Parlor car. No Sightseer car replacement. Imagine if Amtrak now decided to make the Sightesser open to sleeper passengers only, and coach passengers relegated to the lower level of the 35000-series car counter and nowhere to go but back to your seat.
Sort of what we have now on the Texas Eaglete and the Cap Ltd!
 
Interesting concept photo shared by Amtrak at the RPA Meeting in Alexandria today

View attachment 36233
Most likely the concept designs in the RFP documents were in color and in high detail but when Paniolo Man requested they didn't give a direct copy of the documents only a poorly scanned version. It could be that Amtrak didn't want those designs to be public because it's only a concept and the final product could be very different.
 
I think Talgo deserves another chance but probably has a bad taste in their mouths and won't.
I do not see Talgo coming back after the breach of contract settlement with Wisconsin in 2015 (Scott "defund trains" Walker fiasco) and the Washington derailment (Point Defiance Bypass) of 2017. Talgo might be amazing in Spain but I found them jarring and loud crossing US switches with ES bogies.
 
All that glass with the "skylights" makes me smile :)
I think Amtrak might just be providing that "experiential" experience promised a while ago.
One thing that was mentioned in the talk is that there will be no curved glass as they are spectacularly more expensive. Only straight glass panels will be accepted in order to not back into hugely larger maintenance cost..
 
One thing that was mentioned in the talk is that there will be no curved glass as they are spectacularly more expensive. Only straight glass panels will be accepted in order to not back into hugely larger maintenance cost..

Yes this is why they may have them on more cars than just the lounges. As we discussed before, picture those full height windows in the bedrooms instead of the two separate windows to allow upper berth viewing and a skylight to view the stars at night.

Now a while ago I suggested that they consider upper dome windows in the bedrooms to reduce the claustrophobic feeling in the upper berth. Although this may actually happen, I'm not sure if the flat windows would allow as much actual headroom as the curved roof. Depends on where that roof rail is I guess.

Picture sleeping under this curved upper window:

louge.jpg
 
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One thing that was mentioned in the talk is that there will be no curved glass as they are spectacularly more expensive. Only straight glass panels will be accepted in order to not back into hugely larger maintenance cost..
While curved windows can look swanky and sophisticated (RIP PPC's) I can live without them. My hope is that all new order windows will be actual glass with no plastic downgrades. You can tell some replacement planes are not real glass from the heat pressed compliance text and the acrylic style light refraction. 😵‍💫
 
Weren't dedicated lounges limited to passengers in Pullman sleeping cars on most railroads back in the day? Having supplemental revenue space would be lounge cars more practical, but it wouldn't surprise me if they ended up only on the 2-day routes and the Coast Starlight.
There were trains with restricted lounges, but some of those carried a second lounge open to both classes, adjacent to the dining car. The most common restricted lounges were rear observation cars behind the sleepers, or as on the CP Canadian equipment, sleeper-lounge-observation cars.

As a coach passenger on the North Coast Limited I enjoyed access to the mid-train Traveller's Rest Buffet-Lounge, designed by the Raymond Loewy firm. The tail end car was a sleeper-lounge-observation. There were also dome coaches and dome sleepers, which offered passengers a chance to move around.
 
There are no dome cars in the offing so far. But we'll see what the vendors propose.
I don't expect good old fashion dome cars. It's not even possible with the proposed Superliner-style bilevel design. The closest thing is the Holland America McKinley Explorer but that's possible only because you can pass through on the lower level. I was just showing that the original dome car had flat glass panels.
dome.jpg
 
I don't expect good old fashion dome cars. It's not even possible with the proposed Superliner-style bilevel design. The closest thing is the Holland America McKinley Explorer but that's possible only because you can pass through on the lower level. I was just showing that the original dome car had flat glass panels.
View attachment 36243
What the RFP basically asks for is a pretty straightforward replacement for the current Sightseers but with flat glass panels. Oddly in some ways the roof structure requested is close to what one finds in the Indian Railways so called Vistadome Cars, though with larger transparent openings in the roof than in those cars.

vistadome-main.jpg
 
There were trains with restricted lounges, but some of those carried a second lounge open to both classes, adjacent to the dining car. The most common restricted lounges were rear observation cars behind the sleepers, or as on the CP Canadian equipment, sleeper-lounge-observation cars.

As a coach passenger on the North Coast Limited I enjoyed access to the mid-train Traveller's Rest Buffet-Lounge, designed by the Raymond Loewy firm. The tail end car was a sleeper-lounge-observation. There were also dome coaches and dome sleepers, which offered passengers a chance to move around.
Last Amtrak example of a First Class Lounge was the Pacific Parlor Car on the LAX to Seattle Route of the Coast Starlight.
 
I'm trying to imagine what a coach car without overhead racks would be like. The picture immediately above is beautiful but I don't see a scrap of luggage. I wonder (genuinely) if people could adapt to putting their larger objects and/or coats in a shelf at the end.

I still want one in my sleeping car!

Also, I really envy the tall windows *and* how they reach down so you can see every detail passing by.
 
I'm trying to imagine what a coach car without overhead racks would be like. The picture immediately above is beautiful but I don't see a scrap of luggage. I wonder (genuinely) if people could adapt to putting their larger objects and/or coats in a shelf at the end.

I still want one in my sleeping car!

Also, I really envy the tall windows *and* how they reach down so you can see every detail passing by.
Google "Glacier Express" or "Bernina Express" and check out the "Panorama cars." No overhead luggage racks, I think there's storage at one end of the car for bags.

These are both day trains, so no sleeping cars, and I think meals are served at the seats. so I'm not sure if they have a lounge car, or whether you stay in your seat for the entire 8 hour ride.
 
I'm trying to imagine what a coach car without overhead racks would be like. The picture immediately above is beautiful but I don't see a scrap of luggage. I wonder (genuinely) if people could adapt to putting their larger objects and/or coats in a shelf at the end.
If they did that, they would have to give up some revenue seats to have enough space for baggage, lost to eliminating the overhead racks. Those overhead racks can hold lots of baggage…

I don’t think that would be a good idea. Having them in the diner might be a good addition to them in the lounge-cafe…

I don't expect good old fashion dome cars. It's not even possible with the proposed Superliner-style bilevel design. The closest thing is the Holland America McKinley Explorer but that's possible only because you can pass through on the lower level. I was just showing that the original dome car had flat glass panels.
View attachment 36243
It could be possible to have windows in the bulkhead on both sides of the end doors, that would allow vision fore and aft, at least into the next car, but if at the end of the train a view over the top of the locomotive. Or out to the rear.
Possible, but not likely, as the small benefit would not likely justify the added cost…🤷‍♂️
 
It could be possible to have windows in the bulkhead on both sides of the end doors, that would allow vision fore and aft, at least into the next car, but if at the end of the train a view over the top of the locomotive. Or out to the rear.
Possible, but not likely, as the small benefit would not likely justify the added cost…🤷‍♂️

I think those areas are the crumple zones which are meant to be 'unoccupied' for the most part for passenger safety.
 
I do think it’s gonna be interesting to see these cars 2 elevators I am disappointed about no first class on some trains .
I do also like full dome idea seems cool
 
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