Experiences of travel including rail over time in the US

[Ziv]

Just caught up on some additional info about the Vande Bharat. The delivery rate is now upto one set per week, and they are being deployed on new routes every so often.

The ones being procured currently are VB2 sets which are 16 car sets with 8 power cars and 8 trailers. Soon an 8 car version is coming out, the mini VB2 which will be deployed on more rural routes with lesser traffic potential. They will have just one Executive Class instead of two in the full 16 car sets, and of course 4 power cars instead of 8.

My birthplace Kolkata just got two more - Howrah to Ranchi, the capital of the state of Jharkhand, and Howrah to Puri, a popular seaside resort and the home of the famous Jagannath Temple, and the source of the English word Juggernaut. This train also serves the capital of Odissa State at Bhubaneshwar.

The 16 car VB2s are capable of accelerating from 0 to 60mph in about 50 sec. That performance itself is able to knock off 30-60 mins off an 8 hour scheduled compared to similar length locomotive hauled Shatabdi Express with similar stops. Since they all operate in mixed traffic on non-dedicated routes there is a lot of slowing down and speeding up involved even when there is no station stop as they make their way through congested routes. That is where the performance comes into play.

Contracts have been let out for constructing the first batch of 100 VB3 16 car Sleeper trains which will be used to replace Rajdhani Expresses as a starter to be followed by replacing other loco hauled expresses, and speeding them up in the process. These will be capable of 200kph (125mph) as and when track quality permits. They are due to come on line in 2025 or so.

Tenders have been called for the so called VB4 active tilting train sets that come after the VB3s. These are due 2026 or later.

That an 8 car train is considered a "mini" in India speaks volumes.
Even if the US/Amtrak/Brightline doubled or tripled the rolling stock in use in the US, and even if new Brightline-owned tracks were laid, and even if they found a way to get the freight railroads to give Amtrak/Brightline the priority they need on non/Brightline owned lines, we would still take a generation to get to the point where the majority of Americans would look at trains in a manner anywhere close to the way India, Britain or Italy does. As normal everyday transport that can be relied upon.
I am a case in point. I am returning to Montana and all my stuff is in storage in Billings but I am attempting to get a short term rental in Hamilton just south of Missoula. Getting the furniture and my Weber grill to Hamilton is easy, just rent a U Haul and go. But then I have to get back to Billings to get my car and bring it to Hamilton. It used to be that I could take a train from Missoula to Billings but that went away when the Hiawatha was cancelled in 1979. So now I will have to rent a car and probably pay a large "one way" fee. Or I could get a flight to Seattle or Denver and then one from there to Billings. I am not sure but I think Greyhound went the way of the dodo a few years ago too.

 

[Siegmund]

That an 8 car train is considered a "mini" in India speaks volumes.

I think it might have been considered a Mini in the United States as recently as the early or middle 80s. Look at a random picture of a 1970s Broadway Limited or Silver Meteor, and count carefully to see if Amtrak was enforcing the 18-car length limit or not the day the picture was taken...

I am a case in point. I am returning to Montana and all my stuff is in storage in Billings but I am attempting to get a short term rental in Hamilton just south of Missoula.

I wish we had the North Coast Hiawatha back too.... but in the current millennium, the solution is to rent a tow dolly from the same UHaul office where you rent your truck, and bring your car and your stuff to Hamilton at the same time.

 

[Ziv]

I think it might have been considered a Mini in the United States as recently as the early or middle 80s. Look at a random picture of a 1970s Broadway Limited or Silver Meteor, and count carefully to see if Amtrak was enforcing the 18-car length limit or not the day the picture was taken...



I wish we had the North Coast Hiawatha back too.... but in the current millennium, the solution is to rent a tow dolly from the same UHaul office where you rent your truck, and bring your car and your stuff to Hamilton at the same time.

You are so right about the length of trains, and the amount of people traveling by train, being much larger in the US just a matter of 40 or 50 years ago. I think the last time I was on the Cap Limited and the Crescent, they had 8 or 9 cars each. I have seen photos of the old Empire Builder with 15 or 16 cars, which really is not all that much longer than the 12 or so that it will have in the summer now, so the Builder is not doing as badly as some of the Eastern LD routes. But I can not even imagine what it was like in the 1930's or 1940's. People on this board talk about the trains they caught back in the day and it just amazes me that that level of train travel has just about disappeared, other than Amtrak's limited offerings.

I had not even thought about putting my car on a dolly, so thanks for that suggestion. I do not like the idea, but it is probably better than renting a car and going back for it. The thought of my beautiful little car getting towed does not appeal to me at all, but it makes sense.

 

[BlackDiamond]

But I can not even imagine what it was like in the 1930's or 1940's. People on this board talk about the trains they caught back in the day and it just amazes me that that level of train travel has just about disappeared, other than Amtrak's limited offerings.

Consider the number of people that fly today, back in the 1930s/40s all but a tiny fraction would have been on the rails back then.

 

[railiner]

I am a case in point. I am returning to Montana and all my stuff is in storage in Billings but I am attempting to get a short term rental in Hamilton just south of Missoula. Getting the furniture and my Weber grill to Hamilton is easy, just rent a U Haul and go. But then I have to get back to Billings to get my car and bring it to Hamilton. It used to be that I could take a train from Missoula to Billings but that went away when the Hiawatha was cancelled in 1979. So now I will have to rent a car and probably pay a large "one way" fee. Or I could get a flight to Seattle or Denver and then one from there to Billings. I am not sure but I think Greyhound went the way of the dodo a few years ago too.

Have you considered Jefferson Lines?
https://ride.jeffersonlines.com/#/purchaseflow/departschedules

 

[Ziv]

I did not know Jefferson even existed! I drive that road frequently and never spotted any of their buses. Jefferson is near or in the old Greyhound Terminal in Missoula. 12 minute walk from the nearest Uhaul drop-off. 6 hour trip to Billings, $70.
Is my paranoia about putting my car on a trolley worth 13 hours round-trip, an extra $70 and all the added irritations? Not sure but I am grateful for the excellent suggestions I had not considered!
Thank you both!

 

[railiner]

As Greyhound’s national network is unraveling, many regional carriers have filled in the vacuum…

 

[Steve4031]

I remember my first two-night train ride from Galesburg to Oakland in 1974 on the San Francisco Zephyr. I was only 8, but I was already interested in trains. So I remember asking how long the train was and being astounded that it was 18 cars long. That set the standard for length for me until I rode the Canadian in Canada and counted 22 cars on that trip.

 

[MARC Rider]

My first train ride that I remember was on the Paoli Local, now the SEPTA Paoli-Thorndale Line, in the early 1960s. The usual consist was two MP54 EMUs, maybe four cars during rush hour. If we were lucky, they'd be Silverliners. That was the standard by which I judged trains for a long time.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

...we would still take a generation to get to the point where the majority of Americans would look at trains in a manner anywhere close to the way India, Britain or Italy does. As normal everyday transport that can be relied upon. I am a case in point. I am returning to Montana and all my stuff is in storage in Billings but I am attempting to get a short term rental in Hamilton just south of Missoula.

I'm not following this example. If India, England, or Italy were similar to Montana they'd have few if any passenger trains. I usually cringe when people cite population density as the main reason for why the US has so little passenger rail, but in the case of states like Montana they're absolutely right.

 

[Steve4031]

There are areas in China that I believe have similar population densities as Montana. That train that goes from Beijing to Tibet passes through areas that are more challenging than Montana.

What kind of train service is there to the desert areas of China? Are there high-speed lines to these areas?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

There are areas in China that I believe have similar population densities as Montana. That train that goes from Beijing to Tibet passes through areas that are more challenging than Montana.

The train to Tibet was extremely challenging and very expensive to build but these factors were considered acceptable because the line helps project power and promotes disruptive immigration.

 

[printman2000]

My first two train trips were as a kid in the late 70's. Houston to Birmingham. We were in an Amtrak sleeper car that was moved to the Southern Crescent (non-Amtrak) in the middle of the night in New Orleans. Went to sleep on one train and woke up on another!

 

[Maglev]

My first train trip was in June, 1974 from Boston to Washington on the Minuteman, returning on the Night Owl. I recall that Amtrak had a problem with sandwich freshness at that time...

It has been interesting watching the rise and fall of the overnight NEC train over the last 50 years. I think the high point was the Twilight Shoreliner era, when one could be in a new Viewliner room eating breakfast while crossing the Potomac River.

I am nostalgic about the comforts of rail travel--plush seats facing forward with leg and foot rests in coach or the ultimate rail comfort, a private room; lavish food service; observation cars... But these amenities are only necessary because our trains are so slow.

 

[jpakala]

My first trip was in June 1944 from Pittsburgh to Chicago on the PRR and on to SD on the C&NW. Mom was in a club car in a straight chair with its back against the wall but a man playing cards at a table offered to switch seats so she could have a parlor car seat. What a difference! There was room to put me in my basket onto the floor by her large rotating chair. My brother & sister were on a different train with an adult friend and when they met up with Mom after the transfer from Union to Northwestern Station she was shocked by the coal dust on them. My brother said he could hold a paper cup out the open window of their train to Chicago and it collected cinders. They all had berths leaving Chicago that evening for SD.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

My first train trip may have been in Australia, all the way from Caberra to Perth. But I was too young to remember that one. In the late '50s we went from Buffalo to Oakland CA and on to Portland OR and back, but I have no idea which railways - presumably NY Central from Buffalo to Chicago but maybe not and probably Southern Pacific Oakland to Portland (I've done that trip or parts later on both the SP and Amtrak) and again no idea which of the many choices Portland to Chicago or Chicago to Oakland. I have vivid memories of Buffalo Central station, but I think we went there just to see it when we lived there, and how crowded trackside in Chicago was, and sleeper berths (not sure which equipment). Also took the CNR from Saskatoon to Vancouver and back multiple time in the '70s and VIA on that route again recently. Various short Amtrak trips through the years and one epic adventure last year all the way from PDX to Orlando and back on Amtrak by way of Chicago, South Bend, NYC, and DC. Have travelled by bus and plane in the states and Canada, and all three to and in Europe. I much prefer train travel, coach is ok for short hops, but multiple day trips or even just overnights are much better in a sleeper. I hope to do some more soon. If I won the lottery, a big chunk would be spent on train travel.

 

[jphjaxfl]

My first train trip was on the Rocky Mountain Rocket from Joliet, IL to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1948 to visit my Grandmother in Council Bluffs. After that it was many train trips all over the US. In 1971, I went to Europe and traveled on many trains.

 

[Ziv]

My first train trips were with my Dad when he was working as a brakeman and then as a conductor on Burlington Northern freight trains. I think I went on one from Glasgow to Williston, but I remember the Glasgow to Minot trips better because I was older. Riding in the locomotive when he was a brakeman was cool, just watching the tracks roll by. But riding in the caboose when he was a conductor was the best! Riding up in the cupola was even better than getting to sit in the engineers seat for a minute or two. I think my last trip was in 1973 and we had to have me board the train East of town because the management was much stricter at that point than it had been right after Great Northern got bought up.
My first passenger trip was on the Empire Builder from Glasgow to Seattle in about 1975. It seemed like the lap of luxury, our own sleeper compartment and my own bed! My Dad got a steak with a egg over easy on top and I got Halibut, I think. It was just a delicious meal and the porters and cooks knew my Dad was a BN conductor with his kid in tow so they treated us like royalty, which was amazing for me at 13 or so. I saw my first moose from the dome car. It was standing in a pond and casually looked up as the locomotive roared by. It took off through 2 foot of water at a dignified trot. I nested in that dome car during just about every daylight minute we were not in the dining car. My Dad played cribbage and I read and watched the miles roll by, with the porters coming by with blankets and pillows and the occasional orange crush. I can not imagine Amtrak will ever get back to that level of service, but approaching it would be a worthy aim.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I can not imagine Amtrak will ever get back to that level of service, but approaching it would be a worthy aim.

Maybe some day Amtrak dining will get so fancy they can make an egg over-easy...like Denny's.

 

[flitcraft]

[snip] If I won the lottery, a big chunk would be spent on train travel.

Looks like you've been accurately pricing current sleeper fares!

 

[BlackDiamond]

My first train trip ever would have been from our home in South Benfleet Essex UK to London Fenchurch St. station I would have been about 5 and went with my parents to visit my aunt and uncle living in London. This trip was behind a steam locomotive (probably an ex LMS 2-6-4T tank engine) and closed compartment coaches (like on those old British movies).

My first trip by train in the US was the Reading RR round trip Bethlehem PA to Philadelphia and return with my college roommate to visit his home town in the Philly suburbs. As I recall it was a 3 car train of RDC cars. My first "real" train (non commuter service) would have been the Penn Central / New Haven "Senator" from Philadelphia 30th St to Route 128 station via the Hell Gate Bridge route on Thanksgiving Eve of 1968. My one and only trip over the New Haven as a separate entity as it was absorbed into Penn Central on Jan 1 1969. I rode in one of the New Haven stainless steel coaches with lights that stopped working after Trenton but which had the advantage of better being able to view the scenery in the dark. Pulled by GG1 from Philly to NY, not sure if we got an EP5 at Penn Station, east of New Haven we had 2 FL-9's.

 

[jis]

My first train trip was from Calcutta (Howrah) to Bombay Victoria Terminus on the Bombay Mail via Nagpur in 1955. We were traveling to Bombay to receive my Dad who was returning from England on a P&O Line Ship from Southampton to Bombay at the Ballard Pier. We received him and then traveled back to Calcutta again by Bombay Mail via Nagpur. We splurged and traveled by First Class. Back then there was no lower class Sleeper service at all.

My first train trip in the US was from Boston South Station to Washington Union Station by the Senator in 1965.

 

[George Harris]

My first train trip may have been as a lump inside mommy during WW2 because my mother was with her family near Jackson TN while my father's home was in Memphis. However, knowing them and that at that time you could stand beside the highway and flag down the Greyhound, that would probably have been by bus. The first I know was a round trip between Memphis and Jackson TN on the NC&StL's City of Memphis. I think it was actually out of the Memphis suburban stop of Lenox. I remember standing in the vestibule with my father and getting a cinder in my eye. I had to have been under 5, as at that time under 5 was free, so this would probably have been in 1949. Not only are passenger trains long gone from this route, so is the track, taken up in about 1967. My first solo trip was southbound between Dyersburg and Memphis on the City of New Orleans. I was about 12. No special provisions for a child then. Have ticket, get on train. This is the route of the current CNO, although at that time it was a fast 16 1/2 hour day train. At age of 16, just for the fun of it, I made a round trip between Memphis and Little Rock, going west on the Rock Island's single car RDC and coming back on the MoPac. Since supposedly single car DMU's have trouble being seen by signals, I don't know how they did it, but they ran a consistent 70 mph. That trip included a walk across town in Little Rock from the Rock Island station to the Missouri Pacific station. Paper city map. What more could I need? The train back left LR about 30 minutes late, as the train was nominally Hot Springs to Memphis, but a St. Louis, or was it Chicago? coach and sleeper were shuffled onto the train out of Texas and a coach from Ft. Worth attached to the Memphis train. We were boarded when the train came it so we sat through several back and forths for the switching. He put the "pedal to the metal" out of LR to Bald Know and with further treating the speed limits as suggestions and along with slack in the schedule got to Memphis Union Station only about 5 minutes late. I think I will stop with the autobiography here, although there were several steps up in train travel during my college and military years. The final big one: we took as part of our honeymoon in 1973 a ride on the Crescent from Hattiesburg MS back to Washington DC in a bedroom in one of the wonderful Southern 10-6 sleepers.

 

[Fenway]

I think back to an odd weekend trip I took in August 1969 when I was a broke student.

It started on a Friday night from Boston where I took the Mohawk Cargo Shuttle from Boston to Detroit which had stops in Hartford, Albany, Syracuse, Buffalo, and Cleveland before arriving in Detroit at 2:30 AM or so ( I would love to find that timetable) - I was going to see a college friend who was working at CKLW in Windsor and there was actually a GREYHOUND bus from DTW to Renaissance Center and then I took a cab to Windsor. This is back in the youth fare days and the fare was ridiculously cheap.

Saw my friend, crashed, and then took an overnight train from Detroit to Chicago - oof

The odd thing is the cafe was open and beer was served..............................all night long.

Get into Chicago just after dawn ( my first time in the city ) and Union Station was 'quiet' I took the 'L to Harlem and later wound up taking a Gray Line 3-hour tour.

Then to get home I had a youth fare ticket from Midway to Manchester on Northeast.

The lasting memory is the crew on the Penn Central train to Chicago wanted to know how this happened

https://www.universalhub.com/2020/locomotives-southeast-expressway

 

[Willbridge]

Before my first "real" train ride on the UP Pool Trains 457/458 PDX<>SEA I rode the interurbans of Portland Traction Co. When digging for photos for my father's recent memorial service I came across a problem: it's hard to find photos of the guy with a camera.

He took this family photo, for example, at the Gresham station in 1953, a location now served by LRT. I was 6½ years old at the time. The occasion was the last run of a wooden PTCo car. We covered both Gresham branches, so it was my one and only trip to Boring. I remember that the motorman let me blow the whistle when we tried to get a sheep to get off the track.



Correction: this photo was taken in 1952.