Ukrainian trains still running

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The Six seats are in a small room think the size of a Viewliner Bedroom but with just the seats, two rows of three facing each other in the room. Then a jump seat in the aisle.

Here's a Polish (PKP) 2nd class car in 1970, complete with Polish passenger. Note that in this example there's no divider, so it might be 3 across, but perhaps 4.

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First Class in 1970 on the DB with 6-person Abteilung provided with dividers and more elbow room. The seats slid forward and on one occasion when I was the only passenger in the compartment I was able to make a berth with the opposing seat also slid forward.
 
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"We will keep repairing the tracks once the firing stops. We will keep the trains running as long as we can. There is no other option for us."

Ukraine's wartime rail chief has to be faster than the Russians tracking him - BBC News

Also links to a report on the rail trip by Central European leaders from Poland to Kyiv.
Here's more on the leaders' train trip, including a plug for the (relative) safety of rail travel.

Ukraine's rail chief reveals how EU leaders got in and out of Kyiv: 'Everyone should understand that it's war' (msn.com)
 
I tend to agree with the head of the railways there that they were very naive to tweet out or announce what they were doing before they were safely out of harms way. This is war and they would be a very good target.
 
Updates on Ukrainian rail and cross-EU/Russia rail passenger service:

Last EU train out of Russia arrives in Helsinki (msn.com)
(Note that through the Cold War trains continued to operate, albeit with border hassles. The summer-only Hoek-Warsaw Express -- powered by a Deutsche Reichsbahn Pacific -- was the first of those trains that I saw, and I was immediately sold on the idea of being stationed in the U.S. Army's Berlin Brigade.)

Ukraine war: A dangerous escape on the 'Rescue Express' - BBC News
 
The railways are essential for military logistics, for both Russia and Ukraine. Ukrainians (and their supporters in Belarus) are making sure that Ukrainian trains can run and Russian trains can't. The Russians, being in hostile territory, cannot do the same.

Ukraine is seriously talking about doing a complete standard gauge conversion after the war. Reasons are obvious...
 
Here is an excellent video of a vlogger riding the train to get out of Ukraine after the war began.




I've been following bald and bankrupt's vlogs ever since I discovered them a couple of years ago and he covers a number of travel issues that interest me. But the silly bugger had earlier crossed the border *into* Ukraine from Poland just to have a lookaround, and so got caught up in the mad rush to leave a few days later.
 
Ukraine is seriously talking about doing a complete standard gauge conversion after the war. Reasons are obvious...

I hope they take a serious look at Spain before doing that.

Huge cost overruns and network fragmentation.
 
I tend to agree with the head of the railways there that they were very naive to tweet out or announce what they were doing before they were safely out of harms way. This is war and they would be a very good target.

absolutely, and such an attack would unavoidably cause many civilian casualties.
 
I think keeping russians out trumps that concern, plus Neroden said complete gauge changeover, which presumably means the entire network. Smart move on their part and ties them even more into Central Europe.

Well, according to urban legend (and actually proven to be untrue, but whatever), the reason Spain went for a broader gauge was to make it more difficult for the French to invade. Well, the French didn't invade but the track gauge didn't come into that decision.

Having a different gauge didn't stop the Germans invading Russia in WW2 and didn't stop the counter-invasion of Russia into Central Europe.

So at the end of the day its a feel-good symbolic thing that doesn't stop invasions. The question is should a war-torn poor country be channeling big money into feel-good projects?

Finland also shares broad gauge with Russia for historic reasons, but nobody doubts those reasons are in the past, and as far as I know, nobody is asking to change the gauge for emotional or military reasons.
 
So at the end of the day its a feel-good symbolic thing that doesn't stop invasions. The question is should a war-torn poor country be channeling big money into feel-good projects?

Finland also shares broad gauge with Russia for historic reasons, but nobody doubts those reasons are in the past, and as far as I know, nobody is asking to change the gauge for emotional or military reasons.
Does having a broad gauge network narrow Ukraine's choices on where to buy new equipment? The Wikipedia article on the Finnish railways implies as much but isn't crystal-clear on the point. Because if sharing a gauge with the Russians had inclined the Ukrainians to buy Russian engines and rolling stock in the past (I don't know), I can definitely see them wanting to take their business elsewhere in the future.
 
The question is should a war-torn poor country be channeling big money into feel-good projects?
If Ukraine holds on (keyword: if) and prevails, I suspect that there will be LOTS of redevelopment money in the form of foreign aid coming their way.

What would get interesting is if the breakaway republics and Crimea keep the Soviet gauge while the rest of Ukraine switches.
 
Does having a broad gauge network narrow Ukraine's choices on where to buy new equipment? The Wikipedia article on the Finnish railways implies as much but isn't crystal-clear on the point. Because if sharing a gauge with the Russians had inclined the Ukrainians to buy Russian engines and rolling stock in the past (I don't know), I can definitely see them wanting to take their business elsewhere in the future.

Finland shares a gauge with Russia but doesn’t buy much if any Russian equipment .

on the contrary . Even Russia buys western equipment Sometimes . For example sleeper cars from siemens , commuter trains from stadler and talgo trains
 
Finland shares a gauge with Russia but doesn’t buy much if any Russian equipment .

on the contrary . Even Russia buys western equipment Sometimes . For example sleeper cars from siemens , commuter trains from stadler and talgo trains
I'm not sure how they're doing lately, but GE has a factory for the 1520 mm world in Kazakhistan.
 
Well, according to urban legend (and actually proven to be untrue, but whatever), the reason Spain went for a broader gauge was to make it more difficult for the French to invade. Well, the French didn't invade but the track gauge didn't come into that decision.

Having a different gauge didn't stop the Germans invading Russia in WW2 and didn't stop the counter-invasion of Russia into Central Europe.

So at the end of the day its a feel-good symbolic thing that doesn't stop invasions. The question is should a war-torn poor country be channeling big money into feel-good projects?

Finland also shares broad gauge with Russia for historic reasons, but nobody doubts those reasons are in the past, and as far as I know, nobody is asking to change the gauge for emotional or military reasons.
In the German advance to the east, they experimented with adjustable wheel sets. As the war turned in the other direction the Reichsbahn did attempt to pull rolling stock out of the front areas, sometimes after the Wehrmacht had retreated. In the late months of WWII they had work gangs of POW's tipping cars off of yard tracks to open lines.

That is one reason that Lend-Lease trucks were so important for the Soviet Army. The Soviet railway troops also re-gauged the main lines to Berlin. Broad-gauge arrived there on 5 May 1945, some of it constructed under fire. Hand-throw switches were standard.

The ultimate feel-good project was Stalin's trip to Potsdam. A track was re-gauged from Berlin to Potsdam. His special train was powered by an American Diesel engine. With the right incentives that trackwork can be done fast.

The Ukrainians are carrying on a necessary tradition right now -- running a European railway in a war zone -- and they'll have to worry about the gauge issue later.

In turn, I believe that the Russians have dropped their publicized plans to build a broad gauge freight line to Vienna.
 
I'm not sure how they're doing lately, but GE has a factory for the 1520 mm world in Kazakhistan.
Both GE and EMD have jointly operated technology transfer factories for 1667mm in India, They build some really cool dual cab enormously powerful diesels there, Then again so do Alstom and Siemens. If there is a large enough market the vendors will figure out a way to serve it.
 
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I promise this relates to the topic when we address the greater history of the region we can see the conflict more clearly. That and I put over an hour into making a decent response.

Well one also has to realize how intrinsically linked Ukraine and Russia both are historically and economically. What is now Russia started as the Kievan Rus and all three nations claim it as a common denominator being Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine. Now this period dates back all the way to 879 and ended in 1240 when the Duchy of Moskva started gaining more strength and power which is the birth to what became Russia. Then if you continue looking into it you will see the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth then took over after that period and the Russian forces under the Cossacks started taking the territory back in the 1600s, before Catherine the Great took over parts officially during her reign which included a split of the Polish held territories with the Habsburgs. The Russian part was Russified just like the rest of the country in the far east. You can see my trip report for photos of the Native American looking settlements near Irkutsk for more proof of that. however Ukrainian Nationalism was more prevalent in the Habsburg controlled territory.

Now World War I is where the history starts to get more murky because you had people of the Ukrainian State fighting on both sides of the war. Poland then claimed parts of western Ukraine which then caused a civil war in that area. Which eventually was integrated into Soviet Ukraine. After World War II they picked up more former Habsburg territories in Romania, Poland, and Hungary. Then in the 50s Khrushchev gave Crimea from the Russian Soviet Federative Republic RSFR to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic USSR. Crimea itself had been part of Russia since 1774 officially but it also goes back to the Kievan Rus Period to a degree as well.

Now that I've covered the more historical part of the Ukraine/Russia territory now I'll pivot back towards the rail side but I figured the history would help aid clarity.

Now when you look at the rail lines in Ukraine you need to think about this geographical history of territories. When most of this track was built it was during the Russian Empire/Soviet Union period and you'll see the railroads were built in the same way as other colonial railroads. Areas closer to the Russian border look more like a hub network that was designed for extraction of raw materials in this case grain branches. Then you have a handful of east-west lines that connect eastern Uraine and Western Ukraine. Then looking at the western network it looks like the extremities of the old lines of the Habsburg empire.

Knowing that most of this makes sense when looking at the lines. Colonial lines should always be built to the same standard as the country they feed so it's no surprise there is so much Broad Gauge, and why they also broad gauged the western lines. It also makes sense that the equipment is to the same standards especially during the Soviet Period because it was all under SZD. It makes sense not having a small sub-fleet of niche locomotives when the rest of the system doesn't need it which is why you see so much Russian equipment running there.

Then we have to look at their economic history after 1991 to see why we still see Soviet models, and modernized versions still in operation there. Ukraine had the same fate that led to the rise of Lukashenko, and Putin with economic instability and scarcity. When resources are limited you keep older stuff running, and don't have the money to buy the fancy stuff from the west. So it all makes sense in the end.

Ukraine does have some western power now, I want to say they have some variant of a GE or EMD model there now too.

Will they go standard gauge I strongly doubt this because economically they are still fairly tight in with Russia. And look at their border crossings. Most of them are eastward and northward into what was the Russian empire and Soviet Union.

What I think is more likely is we will see some form of a democratic revolution in the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus. And this grows more likely with each day the conflict draws on. We've seen record numbers of protests in both countries, and we've also seen the railroad used as a weapon of war, but also of the resistance. We've seen reports of Belarusian Railroaders and Russian Railroaders sabotaging the railroad to prevent the movement of troops and materials. The longer this goes and the more Russia bleeds the leadership will end up changing. And I hope and pray it will get better because my personal life is deeply intertwined with the fate of the Russian people at this point.
 
Before the Kievan Rus, Kiev was founded by Viking traders I believe, and the area was a hub where different cultures traded and intermingled. Supposedly Harald Godwinson, the later King Harald who fought against the Normans at the Battle of Hastings, spent some years of his youth there. Before that many other tribes and peoples lived there, some of them only transitorily, and the Ukraine was in a way a hub of civilizations, acting as a land bridge between Europe and Asia, and a place where people didn't only come to trade goods, but also influenced one another's ideas and philosophies.

Some historians say, for example, that the Hungarians lived in the southern Ukraine before moving West and settling present day Hungary in the 800s or thereabouts. As late as 1235 a Hungarian friar set out on an expedition East to discover if there were still Hungarians living there and he came back reporting that there were still plenty of people who could converse in some sort of archaic Hungarian. It is however disputed where exactly he had been. If his report was accurate these people must have vanished soon after as there is no more recent report of them. Before that other nations also settled the area and there are possible early linguistic links to the Levant and Mesopotamia, although evidence is too scant and controversial to say with any certainty.
 
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A member of the U.S. Berlin Military Veterans Association, Chris Tureaud, was on a personal reunion trip in late March that included Poland, and posted this report:
In Krakow, my friend and I went to the central train station to catch the rail to Prague. The whole station was jam packed full of Ukraine refugees and there was no rail space to be had. Poland and Germany were offering free rail to all Ukrainians to points west and south. It was good to see that there were so many volunteers assisting the refugees with transportation, food and drink and whatever else they needed. We ended up having to fly to Prague but no big deal. There were a lot of refugees in Prague as well but not nearly as many as in Krakow.
 
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