When/Why was Sunset trimmed from Miami to Sanford?

[AlanB]

This isn't that world. Amtrak needs to concentrate on the health of their overall system. I believe its better off without a LAX - ORL through train. I suspect Kummant agrees.

I think Congress should give Amtrak more money so that Amtrak can buy more equipment and restore this service.

Of course, that new equipment isn't likely to show up overnight.

Amtrak doesn't need new equipment to restore this route. The same amount of equipment that Amtrak used to run this route pre-Katrina still runs on this route today. It just sits in New Orleans unused for two days, rather than making the run to Orlando.

In this case Amtrak is underutilizing their equipment. Sitting equipment isn't making any money or helping to pay the bills.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

1. They already have the equipment to run the train. It sits unused in NOL until it's time to run it back westbound. They DON'T have to buy equipment in order to resume the full route.

2. Sunset was the most recently still running full transcontinental route that is not now running. Vegas hasn't existed in the passenger rail system for a long time. Vegas isn't part of a transcontinental train. Would it be nice to have? YES. But dropping Vegas didn't destroy a transcontinental route.

3. They don't have to appropriate more money to resume Sunset. The amount of money appropriated wasn't cut by the amount it costs Amtrak to run NOL-ORL. Amtrak simply used the excuse of Katrina damage to stop service. That excuse went away when CSX very quickly fixed the trackage. The excuse of damaged or destroyed stations is bogus. Many stops in the Amtrak network are nothing more than a flat piece of ground for passengers to board or detrain. They could resume Sunset within a couple of weeks. They lack the political will, not the means, to run it.

4. If you let them get away with dropping the southern transcontinental route, what is the next piece of the national network that you will allow them to cut? Let's not get started down the slippery slope of cutting out chunks of the national passenger train network, ESPECIALLY with the price of gas, and the price of plane tickets skyrocketing.

5. Even if YOU personally don't really care about Sunset because it doesn't run where you live, if you let Amtrak get away with this, a train that YOU use may just be next.

 

[GP35]

Jacksonville goes from 121,000 to 67,000 in 5 years.Tampa bay goes from 149,000 to 39,000 in 5 years.

Someone was very stupid or trying really hard to destroy Amtrak.

Why do you keep acting like Amtrak exists within the confines of the Sunset Limited?

You'd make a rotten chess player, methinks.

The website list 5 trains. Why do you think I was talking about Sunset unless you can show me and all the forum

members the Sunset Limited going to Tampa Bay.

I was mainly talking about how Amtrak screwed up the day train out of Jacksonville and the Star and Meteor. It seem those

trains were working fine until Amtrak fixed them.

 

[GP35]

5. Even if YOU personally don't really care about Sunset because it doesn't run where you live, if you let Amtrak get away with this, a train that YOU use may just be next.

Exactly. Everytime Amtrak kill one train to better another, that is one less train in the network and one step closer to no trains.

 

[yoohoo]

From Jacksonville to New Orleans. Thats a huge chunk of the country with no train service.

Since there is no train service from my city to most cities in the U.S., I cannot ride Amtrak.

 

[Ryan]

5. Even if YOU personally don't really care about Sunset because it doesn't run where you live, if you let Amtrak get away with this, a train that YOU use may just be next.

Exactly. Everytime Amtrak kill one train to better another, that is one less train in the network and one step closer to no trains.

On the contrary, there also exists the possibility that cutting a train that lost as much money as the Sunset apparently did (I'm new to this, so if I have the facts wrong by all means correct me) that there will be more money available to ensure that the now-running trains have the funds they need to continue running.

A system with a large number of trains running that loses lots of money is going to get shut down mighty quick. Trimming the biggest losers may be the key to saving the whole system. It isn't a slippery slope, it's a delicate balancing act.

As to my own opinion on the SL, since Kummant has basically said "it isn't coming back", I'm not sure why there continues to be this seemingly weekly debate with the SL supporters not recognizing that the Sunset Limited, as it once existed, isn't likely coming back and instead discuss how the best way to get *some* type of train service back into the area.

 

[GP35]

5. Even if YOU personally don't really care about Sunset because it doesn't run where you live, if you let Amtrak get away with this, a train that YOU use may just be next.

Exactly. Everytime Amtrak kill one train to better another, that is one less train in the network and one step closer to no trains.

On the contrary, there also exists the possibility that cutting a train that lost as much money as the Sunset apparently did (I'm new to this, so if I have the facts wrong by all means correct me) that there will be more money available to ensure that the now-running trains have the funds they need to continue running.

A system with a large number of trains running that loses lots of money is going to get shut down mighty quick. Trimming the biggest losers may be the key to saving the whole system. It isn't a slippery slope, it's a delicate balancing act.

If it worked that way, Amtrak would be in great shape today. Is it?

As to my own opinion on the SL, since Kummant has basically said "it isn't coming back", I'm not sure why there continues to be this seemingly weekly debate with the SL supporters not recognizing that the Sunset Limited, as it once existed, isn't likely coming back and instead discuss how the best way to get *some* type of train service back into the area.

Kummant could get fired tomorrow. For now its dead, the next Amtrak leader may bring it back.

 

[MrEd]

I think there was a bill passed telling amtrak to produce a plan to restore service, thus the discussion continues.

Maybe it will go back to Miami.

 

[Guest_Amtrak OBS Employee_*]

I think there was a bill passed telling amtrak to produce a plan to restore service, thus the discussion continues.
Maybe it will go back to Miami.

It will not go to MIA, rest assured...

Now OTOH, a new service may do so depending on the state of FL cooperation in the matter. That will be the only way that might happen, otherwise at some point Amtrak is probably going to reinstate some connecting service to the portion between JAX and NOL to the "Sunset" and "City of NOL." At this point in time, that makes the most sense.... we'll see though.

Now they could (if the wanted to and with the right amount of money) merely extend the "Sunset" over to JAX, and terminate it there. But that would mean Amtrak would have to bring mechanical back to JAX along with some coach cleaners to service the train. The commissary in NOL could restock the train for a roundtrip sorta like NYC does for the "Palmetto" down to SAV. So the food issue shouldn't be a problem, but the train would have to continuously remain under shore power or HEP for the layover in JAX. T&E crews would have to be requalified on the route as well as they would probably have to hire some more folks to cover the additional workload (these same jobs that were cut at the time the route was truncated/suspended). I still say Amtrak will accomplish this with a separate coach only style service, so that is more likely IMO.

BTW folks, a little off topic, but a word about the Florida Resident Railpasses for those of you in FL who use them! It is to my understanding that September of this year (2008) will be be the last chance for Florida residents to purchase their "conditional unlimited travel within FL" pass that Amtrak has marketed for several years. I am told Amtrak is discontinuing the program at the end of the fiscal year, but will still honor those passes already puchased till their expiration date or till the end of the next fiscal year (Sept 2009), whichever applies to each passholder! I HAVE NOT seen anything in writing, and can't find anything on the Amtrak website so this may not be of any issue! But for those of you who use these passes regularly, you should at least inquire about this prior to Sept of this year. And if they are cancelling the program (remember there is that little tidbit in the fine print that leaves Amtrak an out and allows them to do so), you can at least get yours renewed to extend your time a little longer! Good luck, and if anyone gets anything definite on this please post!!!

Moderators, please place this in a separate or more appropriate topic if you should deem it necessary.

OBS gone freight....

 

[Ryan]

5. Even if YOU personally don't really care about Sunset because it doesn't run where you live, if you let Amtrak get away with this, a train that YOU use may just be next.

Exactly. Everytime Amtrak kill one train to better another, that is one less train in the network and one step closer to no trains.

On the contrary, there also exists the possibility that cutting a train that lost as much money as the Sunset apparently did (I'm new to this, so if I have the facts wrong by all means correct me) that there will be more money available to ensure that the now-running trains have the funds they need to continue running.

A system with a large number of trains running that loses lots of money is going to get shut down mighty quick. Trimming the biggest losers may be the key to saving the whole system. It isn't a slippery slope, it's a delicate balancing act.

If it worked that way, Amtrak would be in great shape today. Is it?

I think you're mistaken - if you truly think that I was saying that if Amtrak could cut their least profitable route then they would be in "great shape" then you need to read my post again. Once more, my point was that cutting this route may not be a slippery slope and may in fact be necessary to ensure the overall survival of the system (similarly to amputating a badly damaged limb). Can you not agree that this may or may not be the case?

As to my own opinion on the SL, since Kummant has basically said "it isn't coming back", I'm not sure why there continues to be this seemingly weekly debate with the SL supporters not recognizing that the Sunset Limited, as it once existed, isn't likely coming back and instead discuss how the best way to get *some* type of train service back into the area.

Kummant could get fired tomorrow. For now its dead, the next Amtrak leader may bring it back.

Lots of things *could* happen. I'd much rather discuss things that are more likely.

 

[blueman271]

1. They already have the equipment to run the train. It sits unused in NOL until it's time to run it back westbound. They DON'T have to buy equipment in order to resume the full route.
2. Sunset was the most recently still running full transcontinental route that is not now running. Vegas hasn't existed in the passenger rail system for a long time. Vegas isn't part of a transcontinental train. Would it be nice to have? YES. But dropping Vegas didn't destroy a transcontinental route.

3. They don't have to appropriate more money to resume Sunset. The amount of money appropriated wasn't cut by the amount it costs Amtrak to run NOL-ORL. Amtrak simply used the excuse of Katrina damage to stop service. That excuse went away when CSX very quickly fixed the trackage. The excuse of damaged or destroyed stations is bogus. Many stops in the Amtrak network are nothing more than a flat piece of ground for passengers to board or detrain. They could resume Sunset within a couple of weeks. They lack the political will, not the means, to run it.

4. If you let them get away with dropping the southern transcontinental route, what is the next piece of the national network that you will allow them to cut? Let's not get started down the slippery slope of cutting out chunks of the national passenger train network, ESPECIALLY with the price of gas, and the price of plane tickets skyrocketing.

5. Even if YOU personally don't really care about Sunset because it doesn't run where you live, if you let Amtrak get away with this, a train that YOU use may just be next.

4. Not to be disrespectful, but i think that your arguement here is a bit of a slippery slope. Amtrak was able to cut this portion of the national network only because of a horrible natural disaster that destroyed a lot of tracks along the Gulf Coast. Amtrak did not simply stop service because they no longer wanted to serve the route. So IMHO the discontinuation of the Sunset east of New Orleans was because of the circumstances of the situation, and as such cannot be used as an example of how Amtrak may begin to cut the national network.

On a side note, I rode the SL back in the summer of '94 when i was 8. My Pop and I got on in Miami rode to Jax. and had to get bustituted to NOL due to the wildfires in the Florida Panhandle that summer. From there to LA we were back on the train and besides my senior class trip that is the best trip I have ever been on.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

The return of the Sunset Limited, or some type of passenger service East of NOL is NOT a lost cause regardless of what Kummant says. Congress can provide whatever mandate they decide to, regardless of what Amtrak HQ or Kummant think. And it's a LOT more than some "SL supporters" on this Board.

From the Northwest Florida Daily News:

bill recently passed by the U.S. House of Representatives could bring Amtrak rail service back to Crestview and other cities along the Sunset Limited route... Supporters of restoring service include U.S. representatives ...

From Florida Freedom Newspapers, Florida Panhandle:

The Passenger Rail Investment and Improvement Act (HR 6003) would require Amtrak to submit a plan to Congress for restoring the service. (Sunset Limited) The plan must include a timeline and cost estimates.
“Since the close of Sunset Limited, I often hear from constituents about the possibility of restoring this important service to North Florida,” said U.S. Rep. Allen Boyd, D-Monticello. “This legislation will get the ball rolling on ways to restore this service that will most benefit the people of North Florida and help to make train travel an affordable option in our region.”

From the Tallahassee Democrat:

Amtrak bill calls for plan on North Florida passenger service
...

• June 12, 2008

The $14.9 billion Amtrak reauthorization the House passed Wednesday includes language requiring the passenger rail service to provide Congress with a plan for restoring the service between New Orleans and Sanford,

From the DestinLog:

Amtrak could get back on track in PanhandleService was suspended east of New Orleans east after Hurricane Katrina

June 17, 2008 - 7:52PM

Brian Hughes, Florida Freedom Newspapers

A bill recently passed by the U.S. House of Representatives could bring Amtrak rail service back to Crestview and other cities along the Sunset Limited route.

The Passenger Rail Investment and Improvement Act (HR 6003) was approved last week by a vote of 311 to 104, with 224 Democrats and 87 Republicans supporting the measure.

Now, just in case it hasn't yet registered, none of the above quotes come from "SL supporters" on this Board. Why some people want to just dismiss this, perhaps in the hope that it will go away, I don't know, but there is a LOT of interest and a LOT of public outrage in the Florida panhandle (Tallahassee is the State Capital, by the way, and was served by the Sunset), and I would guess to some extent also in Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana, on this issue. There are at least a couple of million people that are affected by the Sunset's truncation. Congress has said they want something done about it, to the point where that bill requires Amtrak to produce a plan, with specific dates, for restoring that service. As I see it, if it's a question of Amtrak or Congress, Congress will get what they want, Kummant or no Kummant. The folks that lost service aren't giving up. They're ticked off, and their elected representatives are abundantly aware of it, and it's an election year. And they would like to remain in office. Even some of those folks who have been rabidly anti-Amtrak signed on to that Bill, including, to my amazement, Rep. Mica of Florida.

 

[Ryan]

Now, just in case it hasn't yet registered, none of the above quotes come from "SL supporters" on this Board. Why some people want to just dismiss this, perhaps in the hope that it will go away, I don't know, but there is a LOT of interest and a LOT of public outrage in the Florida panhandle (Tallahassee is the State Capital, by the way, and was served by the Sunset),

I'm not trying to dismiss this, and I'm not hoping that it's just going away and I don't particularly care to have my remarks characterized as such (nor do I care for the implication that I'm not smart enough for this to register).

I understand the massive amount of interest that there is in this, but I can also understand that posting about how "the sunset must come back" over and over and is an excercise in futility (and preaching to the choir). My post merely expressed this opinion and stated my disagreement with the argument that this is the first step down a slippery slope that will end in the demise of passenger railroad in America. While this bill provides for Amtrak to come up with a plan to restore service, generating that plan is going to take some time, and then implementing that plan is going to take even more time, so I don't see that this bill is going to do anything to get the trains moving between NOL and FL anytime before this election (or probably the next one or the one after that).

While I'd love to see the route restored "as it was", from the facts that I understand this isn't a feasible plan from a business and economic perspective. Unless someone can show me otherwise (like I've asked for once before) I'm going to trust the word of the man in charge over some random folks on the internet that the restoration of the SL as it was isn't economically feasible.

 

[Guest]

When was the last time a route/segment was initially started, or restarted if it had been shut down as long as the Sunset, east of NOL?

 

[Rafi]

When was the last time a route/segment was initially started, or restarted if it had been shut down as long as the Sunset, east of NOL?

I'm guessing the Downeaster would be the most recent restart.

-Rafi

 

[Walt]

BTW folks, a little off topic, but a word about the Florida Resident Railpasses for those of you in FL who use them! It is to my understanding that September of this year (2008) will be be the last chance for Florida residents to purchase their "conditional unlimited travel within FL" pass that Amtrak has marketed for several years. I am told Amtrak is discontinuing the program at the end of the fiscal year, but will still honor those passes already puchased till their expiration date or till the end of the next fiscal year (Sept 2009), whichever applies to each passholder! I HAVE NOT seen anything in writing, and can't find anything on the Amtrak website so this may not be of any issue! But for those of you who use these passes regularly, you should at least inquire about this prior to Sept of this year. And if they are cancelling the program (remember there is that little tidbit in the fine print that leaves Amtrak an out and allows them to do so), you can at least get yours renewed to extend your time a little longer! Good luck, and if anyone gets anything definite on this please post!!!

I might be totally wrong there, but I thought those passes were underwritten by Florida (State Dept of Choo Choos and Alligator Crossings?). If so, the decision to terminate the program would be by Florida and not Amtrak, no?

 

[frj1983]

While I do support a "full" transcontinental SL, I also want to play the devil's advocate here and make an observation:

When Amtrak started in 1971 and until 1993, the SL only ran from Los Angeles to New Orleans as it does today...if my math is correct, that's 22 years that it was not a "transcontinental train." What did people do back then to try and travel Amtrak in that area, if at all? And why did Amtrak decide to start running it from New Orleans into Florida? I suspect it was a time when new Superliners were coming on line and there was a lot of optimism about train service. So if for 22 years Amtrak did not have this service and survived, how will it start going down the "slippery slope" to oblivion by not having it now?

And finally, do we know the real reason that it does not run now? We have surmises and possibilities, has Amtrak ever really said: "it didn't make money?" It didn't have enough passengers?" etc.etc. and has it stated this officially and formally? Yeah I know what the timetable says, but is that the real reason?

I agree with hokienav, Kummant says it's dead...is there something we can do to get some service up and running on that route? I think that's where our energies should be pointed! OK feel free to slap me upside the head now! :blink:

 

[Ryan]

And finally, do we know the real reason that it does not run now? We have surmises and possibilities, has Amtrak ever really said: "it didn't make money?" It didn't have enough passengers?" etc.etc. and has it stated this officially and formally? Yeah I know what the timetable says, but is that the real reason

No, and I think that is (rightly) the cause of heartburn with a lot of folks - if they would just come out and give the 180 day notice and officially "kill" that segment, then folks could move ahead into the "what's next" phase. Unfortunately, when Kummant essentially did that in front of Congress, it was taken as a negative by most folks.

 

[GP35]

While I do support a "full" transcontinental SL, I also want to play the devil's advocate here and make an observation:
When Amtrak started in 1971 and until 1993, the SL only ran from Los Angeles to New Orleans as it does today...if my math is correct, that's 22 years that it was not a "transcontinental train." What did people do back then to try and travel Amtrak in that area, if at all? And why did Amtrak decide to start running it from New Orleans into Florida? I suspect it was a time when new Superliners were coming on line and there was a lot of optimism about train service. So if for 22 years Amtrak did not have this service and survived, how will it start going down the "slippery slope" to oblivion by not having it now?

And finally, do we know the real reason that it does not run now? We have surmises and possibilities, has Amtrak ever really said: "it didn't make money?" It didn't have enough passengers?" etc.etc. and has it stated this officially and formally? Yeah I know what the timetable says, but is that the real reason?

I agree with hokienav, Kummant says it's dead...is there something we can do to get some service up and running on that route? I think that's where our energies should be pointed! OK feel free to slap me upside the head now! :blink:

SL is a tri-weekly train. The best way to cripple a train or keep it cripple is to tri-weekly the train.

 

[the_traveler]

SL is a tri-weekly train. The best way to cripple a train or keep it cripple is to tri-weekly the train.

I agree. There are only 2 Amtrak trains in the country that are tri-weekly (the SL and the Cardinal), and I don't think either one has as healthy passenger counts as other trains, even going to the same places!

Just look at the Cardinal. You can travel from WAS to CHI via the Cardinal (which runs 3 days a week) or the CL (which runs 7 days a week). I think most people travel on the CL because they can on those 4 other days. And the same from NYP, where you can travel via the Cardinal (3 days a week) or the LSL 7 days a week).

On my trip in October, I am riding on the Cardinal - but ONLY because I happen to depart EMY on a day that gets me to CHI on a day the Cardinal operates! If it was 1 day earlier or later, I would have to take the CL!

 

[Rafi]

SL is a tri-weekly train. The best way to cripple a train or keep it cripple is to tri-weekly the train.

I agree. There are only 2 Amtrak trains in the country that are tri-weekly (the SL and the Cardinal), and I don't think either one has as healthy passenger counts as other trains, even going to the same places!

Just look at the Cardinal. You can travel from WAS to CHI via the Cardinal (which runs 3 days a week) or the CL (which runs 7 days a week). I think most people travel on the CL because they can on those 4 other days. And the same from NYP, where you can travel via the Cardinal (3 days a week) or the LSL 7 days a week).

On my trip in October, I am riding on the Cardinal - but ONLY because I happen to depart EMY on a day that gets me to CHI on a day the Cardinal operates! If it was 1 day earlier or later, I would have to take the CL!

I think the Cardinal's ridership figures are partly attributable to its tri-weekly frequency, but they're only attributable in the sense that it doesn't have the capacity to carry as many people as the Capitol during the same week. I mean that in both the sense that it's not running as frequently and consequently doesn't transport as many people, AND in the sense that a single Cardinal train doesn't have the same seats as a single Capitol train (someone correct me if I'm mistaken, obviously).

Make no mistake about it, though: most Cardinal trains are packed, and the sleeper is almost ALWAYS sold out. So it's not a train that runs empty by any stretch of the imagination. That said, I still think most people departing from points between Washington and Philly and heading to Chicago or west of Chicago would still opt for the Capitol for two reasons:

1). The Capitol is MUCH faster

2). The Capitol has much better amenities (Dining/coach/sightseer/overall spaciousness, primarily).

Obviously #2 can be addressed by Amtrak if they wanted to change either add more Viewliners or change it over to a Superliner consist (losing the Washington-New York leg, obviously). Something I've suggested to both Kummant and Hughes as a way to bring the Cardinal out as an integral Amtrak service, however, is the following:

...run Amtrak's Great Dome on the route between Washington and Chicago in peak seasons and market the feature. This was done to what I perceived as a great deal of success on the Adirondack last fall, and the marketing was only minimal, but the project received a substantial amount of coverage in the press. Amtrak owns only one Great Dome, and it's normally kept out west for special excursions, but the Cardinal, since it's a single level train (and consequently has no sight seeing car) that travels through very picturesque scenery, is an ideal candidate for the Great Dome. And since the Cardinal runs only three times a week, getting the dome onto the majority of the runs is viable. The expense is limited to maintenance on the Dome (which is in good condition) and the minimal cost of bringing it to Chicago from California. The only other thing I'd do to the Cardinal is add on an extra sleeper car in peak periods. The train runs with just one viewliner right now, and as a result, sleeper prices are just absurdly high. If there was more availability of sleeper rooms at reasonable prices, it would actually be my preferred train to get to Chicago on business when I had the time to kill.
If we were to consider "big ticket" ideas for the Cardinal and Amtrak's Long Distance network in general, I believe this is a way to bring the Cardinal back up in terms of ridership and possibly a daily run. Here's the concept:

The Cardinal currently runs from New York to Washington to Cincinnati to Indianapolis to Chicago. Heading west, the train could split (like the Empire Builder) in Cincy or Indianapolis with one section continuing to Chicago as usual, and the other section continuing to Effingham or Centralia (for City of New Orleans connections), St. Louis (for Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited connections), and possibly Kansas City (for Southwest Chief connections). Heading east, both sections combine again in either Cincy or Indianapolis, of course. This of course means a new route, but not necessarily new stations. If you think about it, much of the Cardinal's problems with ridership today stem from three main problems: on time performance, with missed connections in Chicago, lack of "big cities" at reasonable hours, and the slow speed. Couple those shortcomings with the fact that the Capital Limited and Lake Shore are much faster trains, and the Cardinal carries very few people making east-west trips if they're not getting on/off in the Virginias.

In that sense, if Amtrak was to have a single long distance train that served the Northeast Corridor from NY-Washington, served Virginia, provided a one-seat ride to Missouri cities, AND provided a direct, RELIABLE, EASY connection to New Orleans, Texas, and California, it would represent a service that would not only alleviate crowding on the Capital and Lake Shore, but it would also help with crowding and confusion at Chicago. And the biproduct of that added service, obviously, is a new breath of fresh air for the oft-forgotten Cardinal.

Rafi

 

[the_traveler]

run Amtrak's Great Dome on the route between Washington and Chicago in peak seasons and market the feature. This was done to what I perceived as a great deal of success on the Adirondack last fall, and the marketing was only minimal, but the project received a substantial amount of coverage in the press. Amtrak owns only one Great Dome, and it's normally kept out west for special excursions, but the Cardinal, since it's a single level train (and consequently has no sight seeing car) that travels through very picturesque scenery, is an ideal candidate for the Great Dome.

I agree.

I grew up in upstate NY and during the 70's, the Adirondack ran with a (ex-D&H IIRC) dome, but only between ALB and MTR. (The dome was too tall to enter the NYG - at that time - tunnels, so it was removed in ALB.) So I see no reason why a dome could not be used between CHI and WAS only.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

I might be totally wrong there, but I thought those passes were underwritten by Florida (State Dept of Choo Choos and Alligator Crossings?). If so, the decision to terminate the program would be by Florida and not Amtrak, no?

If you're correct, that would most likely be the case. However, I really just don't know how to answer that one at this time. I will research it as my time permits, but for now I will leave this for someone else who has some better knowledge on that part of the subject. As I stated in my posting, it may not be of any issue at all. I just want those who rely on the use of those passes to at least check that info out.

OBS gone freight...

 

[Green Maned Lion]

SL is a tri-weekly train. The best way to cripple a train or keep it cripple is to tri-weekly the train.

I agree. There are only 2 Amtrak trains in the country that are tri-weekly (the SL and the Cardinal), and I don't think either one has as healthy passenger counts as other trains, even going to the same places!

Just look at the Cardinal. You can travel from WAS to CHI via the Cardinal (which runs 3 days a week) or the CL (which runs 7 days a week). I think most people travel on the CL because they can on those 4 other days. And the same from NYP, where you can travel via the Cardinal (3 days a week) or the LSL 7 days a week).

On my trip in October, I am riding on the Cardinal - but ONLY because I happen to depart EMY on a day that gets me to CHI on a day the Cardinal operates! If it was 1 day earlier or later, I would have to take the CL!

Question: Does it occur to one that as three-a-week schedules can lead to low ridership, so can low ridership lead to three-a-week schedules?

The Sunset Limited is one of the oldest trains in US. During its over 100 year history, a brief experiment between 1994 and 2005 had it running from NOL to Florida. Prior to that the train ran to NOL, period. Amtrak has no obligation to run this train in this manner. None at all. That Amtrak should maintain a train over that portion of the southern transcon, I agree. But that train should not be a through train from LAX. By breaking it up, you allow a lot other things to happen.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

I don't believe the State of Florida has any financial connection with the railpass.

I also would much rather have a daily NOL-JAX train than a through Sunset 3x/week. A daily NOL-JAX (if not NOL-ORL) would be wonderful as a connector not just for the Sunset but also (and especially) for the City of New Orleans train. And OTP Eastbound especially would probably be much better. Having said that, though, the current Sunset OTP seems to be a LOT better Eastbound into NOL that it was before Katrina. Jax currently has two Northbound and two Southbound connections a day. 91/97/92/98. Move the Palmetto's Southern end to Jax and there would be three connecting sets to/from the North and two to the South.