why

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

The move to the back was claimed to be a safety issue. You know how you fix the door problem? You flip the sleepers around the other way. DUH!

Why is it everytime Amtrak makes a decision people assume that Amtrak is out to screw with railfans...

It's quite obviously an issue as you want public places on the train to have the most possible exits, especially if they're in the middle of the consist. It would not be enough to simply turn the sleepers around as then you have another problem with the vestibules between the two sleepers since the vestibules would be on opposite ends... Amtrak's method streamlines the operation to allow for less mistakes in the yard and easier train turning as well as car swap outs.

No, turning the sleepers would have worked. What battalion51 is saying to do would be exactly the same as pulling the current consist backwards, except with the baggage car next to the Viewliners, not the coaches.

Uh no, there would have been a heck of lot more work involved to switch the coaches around as well so the end result would be the same as we have now! When in fact we simply swapped the cars around in the consist (back to the old way as it always had been), and avoided a whole lot of having to wye certain cars and turning consists around, etc. This is why it is best to leave this type of work to the professionals (us railroaders)! And keep in mind, Amtrak management doesn't always make the best "railroad minded" decisions, but we have to hand it to them in this case! They followed through on something which made safety sense using a "common sense" approach on how to implement it in the simplest means possible!

WOW... a "government created corporation" and "common sense" in the same sentence!!! Can't take place very often.

OBS gone freight...

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

The move to the back was claimed to be a safety issue. You know how you fix the door problem? You flip the sleepers around the other way. DUH!

There is much more to it than just that, my friend!

OBS gone freight...

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

WOW... a "government created corporation" and "common sense" in the same sentence!!! Can't take place very often.
OBS gone freight...

WOW... a railroad worker agreeing with a "government created corporation"!!! Can't take place very often.

Righteous man, I knew SOMEBODY around here didn't think this was a conspiracy to make "ugly" trains.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

I grew up (11 years) about 500 feet from the Coast Line (the SP's north-south mainline in California and the route of the Coast Starlight) and about 1/4 mile from a private driveway crossing a few houses down. That meant the trains were usually blowing their horns right as they passed my bedroom.
Never bothered me. In fact, if it were daytime, as soon as I'd hear the train coming, I'd run out to the back fence to watch it and wave at it. And if it were night and I were lying in bed, I'd run to the window. And if I were sleeping, I'd never be awoken, but my dreams were made happy.

(Except one vivid nightmare where a train kind of entered my bedroom in the way that only something in a dream can happen, but that was an isolated incident!)

I spent about the 1st 6 years of my life about that far from the SP tracks in SF East Bay. I get rocked to sleep by the horn now while training, and I'm a light sleeper.

Funny, I had that train entering the house dream too, but coming at the back door. When it got close, I slammed the door shut. No problem, no more train.

i would like to know the idiot who made this nightmare happen whyyyyyyyyy whyy the consist look shaful know its just soo terrible to me im so sick of it that i stopped railfanning amtrak silvers beacuse of the cars swiching around this issssssssss crap :angry:

So this person (or people) is an idiot because they went back to the basics of railroading, which resulted in the implementation of something for your traveling safety because "you believe it makes the train's consist look bad!" Maybe Amtrak should dabble again in freight transport (like they did with the old mail contract), and break some safety operating rules by hauling some propane tankers or chlorine in the same consist, right behind the locos and next to the car your traveling in! That makes about as much sense as well!!! [sarcasm] And would make for one ugly consist, too. h34r:

OBS gone freight...

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

WOW... a "government created corporation" and "common sense" in the same sentence!!! Can't take place very often.
OBS gone freight...

WOW... a railroad worker agreeing with a "government created corporation"!!! Can't take place very often.

Righteous man, I knew SOMEBODY around here didn't think this was a conspiracy to make "ugly" trains.

That's right!!!!

OBS gone freight...

 

[battalion51]

Ok lets look at Winter Haven as a prime example. The station is situated in a curve, where the head end is not visible from the rear. So it's borderline impossible to see the sleepers from the coaches when the train is spotted up. Shall we continue?

 

[MattW]

Though I don't think it is a conspiracy to create ugly trains, it definitely didn't help. We're supposed to be trying to expand American passenger rail. Sure the consists look fairly uniform now with one mildly oversize baggage, coaches, then the oversize Viewliners, but what's going to happen when those baggages become Viewliners? Uglier consists and lack of the dazzle and appearance factor needed to impress politicians and even regular people. Especially the moron nimby's like are opposing the beltway project here in Atlanta. If you have a bunch of mis-matched, oddly shaped trains running around, they'll have even more ammo against the rail project.

All you would have to do is flip the sleepers and everything would have been fine! I can't elaborate on the specifics as I don't have a pic of a pre-switch Eastern Consist in front of me right now, but I did it in my head once. The solution would have kept the better looking consists, and still allowed the multiple-vestibule thing.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Ok lets look at Winter Haven as a prime example. The station is situated in a curve, where the head end is not visible from the rear. So it's borderline impossible to see the sleepers from the coaches when the train is spotted up. Shall we continue?

Yes we shall.

You managed to provide ONE example out of (how many stations) where there is a MINOR problem. This is easily solved with good communication between the crew (remember those two-ways they carry?) Train crews are an observant bunch and what exactly is the safety issue here? That the AC won't be able to see a fire on board a sleeper or that the HC wouldn't be able to see an Engine explode? It also depends upon where the pax board the train.

Let us not forget the OBS crew who can help with getting pax in the right place.

You fail to address the issues raised by OBS who points out the many holes in your argument that "if they just turned around the sleepers"... You just mentioned ONE station amongst about the hundred or so affected by this move and do not address the true nature of the issue-- the emergency exits and safety of the train in case of emergency which is EVERYBODY's primary concern.

Oh right... you think that Amtrak didn't even care about that when they made this decision. You think that they moved the coaches for, what exactly? That they went through all this decision-making and man hours to switch everything around for, NOT the FRA's peace of mind but the sleeper's complaints about the horn?

If it doesn't make sense... it's not true.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Though I don't think it is a conspiracy to create ugly trains, it definitely didn't help. We're supposed to be trying to expand American passenger rail. Sure the consists look fairly uniform now with one mildly oversize baggage, coaches, then the oversize Viewliners, but what's going to happen when those baggages become Viewliners? Uglier consists and lack of the dazzle and appearance factor needed to impress politicians and even regular people. Especially the moron nimby's like are opposing the beltway project here in Atlanta. If you have a bunch of mis-matched, oddly shaped trains running around, they'll have even more ammo against the rail project.All you would have to do is flip the sleepers and everything would have been fine! I can't elaborate on the specifics as I don't have a pic of a pre-switch Eastern Consist in front of me right now, but I did it in my head once. The solution would have kept the better looking consists, and still allowed the multiple-vestibule thing.

First: Safety first. Always.

Secondly... how many people have actually complained about the new "ugly" trains.. besides railfans. You realize that railroad competency outside railroading and railfanning circles is almost nil. Most pax don't care how the train looks on the outside as long as they get to their destination on time, get fed, and get good service. None of these are affected by the move.

Amtrak's primary goal is the SAFETY of the pax and, secondly, the comfort and service of the pax... not pleasing the railfans. I'm sorry, that's the way it is, and that's the way it's got to be.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Ok lets look at Winter Haven as a prime example. The station is situated in a curve, where the head end is not visible from the rear. So it's borderline impossible to see the sleepers from the coaches when the train is spotted up. Shall we continue?

OK, let's test your railroading knowledge, my friend. That is a good scenario....

Ok, I wanna here from you how a conductor (put yourself in his/her shoes) should handle this issue. As a T&E railroader by profession, I already know what the solution should be, here (even though I am concerned mostly with freight railroading). I have already observed my passenger T&E peers implementing the proper solutions to this issue.

So let's have an answer from you to my previous question on how would you handle it as a conductor (taking present conditions into account)?

OBS gone freight...

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

All you would have to do is flip the sleepers and everything would have been fine! I can't elaborate on the specifics as I don't have a pic of a pre-switch Eastern Consist in front of me right now, but I did it in my head once. The solution would have kept the better looking consists, and still allowed the multiple-vestibule thing.

Uh, there is more to than just flipping cars around.... I refer you to my posting which should be #26 above!!

OBS gone freight...

 

[Guest]

All you would have to do is flip the sleepers and everything would have been fine! I can't elaborate on the specifics as I don't have a pic of a pre-switch Eastern Consist in front of me right now, but I did it in my head once. The solution would have kept the better looking consists, and still allowed the multiple-vestibule thing.

Uh, there is more to than just flipping cars around.... I refer you to my posting which should be #26 above!!

OBS gone freight...

you all have interesting facts obout this but all i want is the consist to turn the other way around i mean people dont get sick on amtrak anymore safty the last ttime there was a derailment with amtrak was back in the 2001 theres noting to be scared of know beacuse the tecnaligy has updated the railroads making them better but i think it was just dumb swicthing the train around <_< and im not going to ececpt this i am not riding on the nec in the silverstar that looks like a cardinal :angry:

rayrays not happy

 

[Amtrak839]

The move to the back was claimed to be a safety issue. You know how you fix the door problem? You flip the sleepers around the other way. DUH!

Why is it everytime Amtrak makes a decision people assume that Amtrak is out to screw with railfans...

It's quite obviously an issue as you want public places on the train to have the most possible exits, especially if they're in the middle of the consist. It would not be enough to simply turn the sleepers around as then you have another problem with the vestibules between the two sleepers since the vestibules would be on opposite ends... Amtrak's method streamlines the operation to allow for less mistakes in the yard and easier train turning as well as car swap outs.

No, turning the sleepers would have worked. What battalion51 is saying to do would be exactly the same as pulling the current consist backwards, except with the baggage car next to the Viewliners, not the coaches.

Being that some people can become sick (nausa, dizzyness, vertigo) from riding backwards in a moving vehicle, doesn't Amtrak try as best they can to made sure that all sleeper rooms with seats that only face in one direct are oriented so that the passengers are facing the direction that the train is going in? In rooms with duel facing seats, like the Superliner H rooms, an individual can switch seats if it becomes necessary, but on the singular facing seats, like the Viewliners H room, switching is not an option.

I'm not saying it's the right solution, I'm just saying for the purpose of buffering the diner with vestibules for an emergency evacuation it would have worked. Obviously there are other issues, such as the one you pointed out, which is why Amtrak just moved the sleepers to the rear.

 

[Amtrak839]

The move to the back was claimed to be a safety issue. You know how you fix the door problem? You flip the sleepers around the other way. DUH!

Why is it everytime Amtrak makes a decision people assume that Amtrak is out to screw with railfans...

It's quite obviously an issue as you want public places on the train to have the most possible exits, especially if they're in the middle of the consist. It would not be enough to simply turn the sleepers around as then you have another problem with the vestibules between the two sleepers since the vestibules would be on opposite ends... Amtrak's method streamlines the operation to allow for less mistakes in the yard and easier train turning as well as car swap outs.

No, turning the sleepers would have worked. What battalion51 is saying to do would be exactly the same as pulling the current consist backwards, except with the baggage car next to the Viewliners, not the coaches.

Uh no, there would have been a heck of lot more work involved to switch the coaches around as well so the end result would be the same as we have now! When in fact we simply swapped the cars around in the consist (back to the old way as it always had been), and avoided a whole lot of having to wye certain cars and turning consists around, etc. This is why it is best to leave this type of work to the professionals (us railroaders)! And keep in mind, Amtrak management doesn't always make the best "railroad minded" decisions, but we have to hand it to them in this case! They followed through on something which made safety sense using a "common sense" approach on how to implement it in the simplest means possible!

WOW... a "government created corporation" and "common sense" in the same sentence!!! Can't take place very often.

OBS gone freight...

I did not mean it was an ideal solution, but for the purpose of buffering the diners with vestibules it would have worked. Obviously, because of the issues you and sky pointed out it made more sense for Amtrak to move the sleepers to the rear.

 

[Amtrak839]

All you would have to do is flip the sleepers and everything would have been fine! I can't elaborate on the specifics as I don't have a pic of a pre-switch Eastern Consist in front of me right now, but I did it in my head once. The solution would have kept the better looking consists, and still allowed the multiple-vestibule thing.

Uh, there is more to than just flipping cars around.... I refer you to my posting which should be #26 above!!

OBS gone freight...

you all have interesting facts obout this but all i want is the consist to turn the other way around i mean people dont get sick on amtrak anymore safty the last ttime there was a derailment with amtrak was back in the 2001 theres noting to be scared of know beacuse the tecnaligy has updated the railroads making them better but i think it was just dumb swicthing the train around <_< and im not going to ececpt this i am not riding on the nec in the silverstar that looks like a cardinal :angry:

rayrays not happy

Feel free to seek other means of transportation for your travel needs. More seats for those of us who will enjoy the ride regardless of what the consist looks like. As long as the train is on time, the crew is friendly/helpful, and there is quality on board service that is easily accessible, all pax should be happy. The consist doesn't really matter.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

All you would have to do is flip the sleepers and everything would have been fine! I can't elaborate on the specifics as I don't have a pic of a pre-switch Eastern Consist in front of me right now, but I did it in my head once. The solution would have kept the better looking consists, and still allowed the multiple-vestibule thing.

Uh, there is more to than just flipping cars around.... I refer you to my posting which should be #26 above!!

OBS gone freight...

you all have interesting facts obout this but all i want is the consist to turn the other way around i mean people dont get sick on amtrak anymore safty the last ttime there was a derailment with amtrak was back in the 2001 theres noting to be scared of know beacuse the tecnaligy has updated the railroads making them better but i think it was just dumb swicthing the train around <_< and im not going to ececpt this i am not riding on the nec in the silverstar that looks like a cardinal :angry:

rayrays not happy

Amtrak's not in the business of catering to your personal whims, sorry.

Oh, and the last time there was a derailment was, this year. The SWC hopped off at a switch in CUS. 353 took out a car of teenagers and the CZ took out another car last week. The CL earlier this year struck a tree and last week hit the back of a tow truck. Any one of these accidents had the potential to derail the train, thankfully not, however the reason we have such safe rail roads is because we HAVE anal-retentive safety rules that keep both crew and pax safe. NEVER take chances with two-million pounds of steel and 4200hp of diesel.

 

[Guest rayyyyyyyyyyyray]

All you would have to do is flip the sleepers and everything would have been fine! I can't elaborate on the specifics as I don't have a pic of a pre-switch Eastern Consist in front of me right now, but I did it in my head once. The solution would have kept the better looking consists, and still allowed the multiple-vestibule thing.

Uh, there is more to than just flipping cars around.... I refer you to my posting which should be #26 above!!

OBS gone freight...

Feel free to seek other means of transportation for your travel needs. More seats for those of us who will enjoy the ride regardless of what the consist looks like. As long as the train is on time, the crew is friendly/helpful, and there is quality on board service that is easily accessible, all pax should be happy. The consist doesn't really matter.

thats where your wrong the consist does matter mabe not to you but the hundreads of railfanners that have railfanned the silvers since they were born.but with the way your talking you seem to just ride amtrak just to get were your going well thats not the way i want it and the piont that me and my railfanners are trying to say is PUT THE CONSIST BACK TO ORIGINAL FORM its just the way they should be and i ride amtrak to hear the k5lA AND SEE THE Butiful sights and the sleepers in the front :angry:

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

All you would have to do is flip the sleepers and everything would have been fine! I can't elaborate on the specifics as I don't have a pic of a pre-switch Eastern Consist in front of me right now, but I did it in my head once. The solution would have kept the better looking consists, and still allowed the multiple-vestibule thing.

Uh, there is more to than just flipping cars around.... I refer you to my posting which should be #26 above!!

OBS gone freight...

Feel free to seek other means of transportation for your travel needs. More seats for those of us who will enjoy the ride regardless of what the consist looks like. As long as the train is on time, the crew is friendly/helpful, and there is quality on board service that is easily accessible, all pax should be happy. The consist doesn't really matter.

thats where your wrong the consist does matter mabe not to you but the hundreads of railfanners that have railfanned the silvers since they were born.but with the way your talking you seem to just ride amtrak just to get were your going well thats not the way i want it and the piont that me and my railfanners are trying to say is PUT THE CONSIST BACK TO ORIGINAL FORM its just the way they should be and i ride amtrak to hear the k5lA AND SEE THE Butiful sights and the sleepers in the front :angry:

Hundreds of railfans pictures versus 27 million pax and thousands of railroad workers safety.

Hard choice. :huh:

 

[transit54]

thats where your wrong the consist does matter mabe not to you but the hundreads of railfanners that have railfanned the silvers since they were born.but with the way your talking you seem to just ride amtrak just to get were your going well thats not the way i want it and the piont that me and my railfanners are trying to say is PUT THE CONSIST BACK TO ORIGINAL FORM its just the way they should be and i ride amtrak to hear the k5lA AND SEE THE Butiful sights and the sleepers in the front :angry:

Last time I checked, Amtrak derived revenue by selling tickets to individuals looking to get between certain points, not by catering to railfans. As far as I'm concerned, the make-up of the consist is the least of my worries.

 

[Amtrak839]

All you would have to do is flip the sleepers and everything would have been fine! I can't elaborate on the specifics as I don't have a pic of a pre-switch Eastern Consist in front of me right now, but I did it in my head once. The solution would have kept the better looking consists, and still allowed the multiple-vestibule thing.

Uh, there is more to than just flipping cars around.... I refer you to my posting which should be #26 above!!

OBS gone freight...

Feel free to seek other means of transportation for your travel needs. More seats for those of us who will enjoy the ride regardless of what the consist looks like. As long as the train is on time, the crew is friendly/helpful, and there is quality on board service that is easily accessible, all pax should be happy. The consist doesn't really matter.

thats where your wrong the consist does matter mabe not to you but the hundreads of railfanners that have railfanned the silvers since they were born.but with the way your talking you seem to just ride amtrak just to get were your going well thats not the way i want it and the piont that me and my railfanners are trying to say is PUT THE CONSIST BACK TO ORIGINAL FORM its just the way they should be and i ride amtrak to hear the k5lA AND SEE THE Butiful sights and the sleepers in the front :angry:

I've been riding Amtrak since 1994 and railfanning since 1997. The Silver Palm was the first route I railfanned, by the way. Starting filming and photographing in 2007. I talk to a lot of railfans at Alexandria Union Station (one of, if not the, most popular places to railfan in northern Virginia) and none of them care about the consist change. I go there once or twice a month. I've spent 11 hours straight camped out on the platform, and been harassed by cops for pursuing my hobby. So, I understand things very well from a railfan's perspective. I also realize that I am just a railfan, and, like every railfan, I have little to no influence over Amtrak in any way. You do not seem to realize this. Amtrak exists to transport people. Not to entertain oddballs like you and me who have nothing better to do than stand next to the tracks with a camera.

 

[MrFSS]

Thats where your wrong. The consist does matter. Maybe not to you, but the hundreds of rail fans that have rail fanned the Silvers since they were born. But with the way your talking you seem to just ride Amtrak just to get were your going. Well that's not the way I want it and the point that me and my railers are trying to say is PUT THE CONSIST BACK TO ORIGINAL FORM. Its just the way they should be and I ride Amtrak to hear the K5lA AND SEE THE Beautiful sights and the sleepers in the front :angry:

In addition to what everyone else has said about this, you are talking to the wrong audience. You should be discussing this with Amtrak. No one here can make any changes such as you suggest. Why not go to them with your complaint - suggestions?

 

[haolerider]

All you would have to do is flip the sleepers and everything would have been fine! I can't elaborate on the specifics as I don't have a pic of a pre-switch Eastern Consist in front of me right now, but I did it in my head once. The solution would have kept the better looking consists, and still allowed the multiple-vestibule thing.

Uh, there is more to than just flipping cars around.... I refer you to my posting which should be #26 above!!

OBS gone freight...

you all have interesting facts obout this but all i want is the consist to turn the other way around i mean people dont get sick on amtrak anymore safty the last ttime there was a derailment with amtrak was back in the 2001 theres noting to be scared of know beacuse the tecnaligy has updated the railroads making them better but i think it was just dumb swicthing the train around <_< and im not going to ececpt this i am not riding on the nec in the silverstar that looks like a cardinal :angry:

rayrays not happy

In all honesty, I don't think Amtrak cares if rayray is not happy, nor do I think they care if you are not going to accept it! There may be many reasons for supporting this change - or not supporting it, but rayrays happiness probably did not fit into the decision making process.

 

[Guest]

Thats where your wrong. The consist does matter. Maybe not to you, but the hundreds of rail fans that have rail fanned the Silvers since they were born. But with the way your talking you seem to just ride Amtrak just to get were your going. Well that's not the way I want it and the point that me and my railers are trying to say is PUT THE CONSIST BACK TO ORIGINAL FORM. Its just the way they should be and I ride Amtrak to hear the K5lA AND SEE THE Beautiful sights and the sleepers in the front :angry:

In addition to what everyone else has said about this, you are talking to the wrong audience. You should be discussing this with Amtrak. No one here can make any changes such as you suggest. Why not go to them with your complaint - suggestions?

i went and complained to amtrak 3 times they said they would try and fix this problem :angry: me and my fellow railfanners care alot obout the change sum of you guys might not beacuse you just ride amtrak for the heck of it well me and my family are not likr that we ride amtrak for the raifanning reasons :angry:

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Thats where your wrong. The consist does matter. Maybe not to you, but the hundreds of rail fans that have rail fanned the Silvers since they were born. But with the way your talking you seem to just ride Amtrak just to get were your going. Well that's not the way I want it and the point that me and my railers are trying to say is PUT THE CONSIST BACK TO ORIGINAL FORM. Its just the way they should be and I ride Amtrak to hear the K5lA AND SEE THE Beautiful sights and the sleepers in the front :angry:

In addition to what everyone else has said about this, you are talking to the wrong audience. You should be discussing this with Amtrak. No one here can make any changes such as you suggest. Why not go to them with your complaint - suggestions?

i went and complained to amtrak 3 times they said they would try and fix this problem :angry: me and my fellow railfanners care alot obout the change sum of you guys might not beacuse you just ride amtrak for the heck of it well me and my family are not likr that we ride amtrak for the raifanning reasons :angry:

Here's the honest truth: Amtrak doesn't give a damn. They won't give a damn. They shouldn't give a damn. You are talking about sacrificing the safety of the majority for the aesthetic pleasing of a very small minority. It doesn't seem to register with you that this is a SAFETY issue and that railroaders old and young have championed and agreed with Amtrak on this change.

Amtrak is not in the business of pleasing your lenses or your opinions of how their trains look. They run intercity transportation in a safe manner. Their first priority is safety, their second is pax comfort, you're not even in the top ten list.

As for your judgements of this community-- MOST of us are railfans. Some of us are railroaders, and some of us are just travelers. Our opinions are not reflective of the public at large, and if your opinions and maturity are reflective of the railfan community at large (which I believe they are not, and that you are a fringe minority as I thing few TRUE railfans would want to compromise safety for beauty)... then I think YOUR community is not one I would find to be beneficial, in any way, to railroads.

Next-- you're going to demand CSX haul a caboose or two for some photo ops.

Selfish. Just selfish. <_<

 

[PetalumaLoco]