Why No Wyoming?

[gmushial]

They carefully examined Wyoming and realized nobody lived there.

A lot of sheep.

Wyoming, where men are men and sheep are nervous.

;-) x10000

 

[gmushial]

Last month I was in the WP Railroad Museum in Portola, California and I had read in that museum that the WP line known as the Inside Gateway north of Keddie had been sold to BNSF. I stayed in the Pullman House B&B, which I can recommend, overlooking the RR yard. The lady on duty that night and I had nice chats. Her husband works for a company that transports railroad crews. He has told her that when driving Union Pacific crews, all he hears in the vehicle are endless complaints and counting the days to retirement. With BNSF crews, it is an entirely different story, with a much more positive attitude.

I find that interesting - the UP culture: last August ('13) I thought I was going to take a position with UP in Omaha - the IT people I met there were truly a cut above (Steve Gurney et al), but then I had to deal with the UP Police - they do the resume validation: which proved to be a truly surreal experience (never had encountered anything so "unusual" (wishing to be polite) in my professional life) - the whole experience cost me big $'s (foolishly burned bridges what I was unable to re-establish - that was a mistake on my part)... but wonder if the unhappy UP people aren't unhappy with the people they have to work with, but with the UP Police et al... I was very much looking forward to working with/for them, especially given their very forward looking IT approach. Maybe BNSF doesn't have an adversarial relationship this way.

 

[gmushial]

I think the last time it was used was following the terrible truck-Amtrak collision east of Reno in June, 2011 when it was re-routed for a few days. Perhaps others are aware of this detour on other occasions.

I thought I remembered something like that... but didn't want to assert such with only a very vague recollection...

Any guess on the time penalty of going that route? (beyond that: what is the actual routing from Reno to SAC? ... and the SAC end rejoin the over-the-top route before SAC, or at?)

The Feather River route (former Western Pacific) is longer than the Donner route. There is a time penalty for taking it, besides the delays related to having a UP pilot. Although it was touted by the WP as a scenic selling point for the original California Zephyr, arguably the Donner route (former Southern Pacific) is the more scenic of the two. The Feather River route is scenic, but in my opinion, the Donner route is more scenic.

Heading westbound, the Feather River route departs from the normal CZ route at Winnemucca NV. It heads due west (as the CZ heads southwest) to Portola CA. It then follows the Feather River (CA Route 70) though the northern Sierras to Oroville, then south to Yuba City where today it joins the route used by the Coast Starlight on to Sacramento.

Many thanks for the details - didn't realize that it separated from the CZ route that far east (had assumed it did something like parallel US395 north from Reno, and then into the canyon... but I guess not)... maybe I'll get lucky one of these days and get detoured that way... have seen the donner summit route enough times now that I'm inclined to read a book... but the Feather River Canyon would be an interesting difference. Thanks again.

 

[greatcats]

If I am not mistaken, the line parallel to US 395 is the former WP branch line, now partially abandoned, for what reasons who knows? As I drove east from Portola into Nevada, I saw the main head off to the northeast, and the disused branch headed south, trackage intact, but overgrown.

 

[gmushial]

If I am not mistaken, the line parallel to US 395 is the former WP branch line, now partially abandoned, for what reasons who knows? As I drove east from Portola into Nevada, I saw the main head off to the northeast, and the disused branch headed south, trackage intact, but overgrown.

Again, thanks. ... and you're about nine steps ahead of me... I was just thinking that along 395 would be where the route would/might go... but hadn't noticed the trackage - will have to look more carefully next time over there [from RDD over 44 and down 395 is the fastest way to most places east of here, so drive that (too) often].

 

[PRR 60]

The WP's Reno branch permitted them to service customers in the Reno area. After the UP/WP merger, the line was unnecessary. Portions are still used to serve local customers en route, I believe from the Reno end. Much of the track looks like it has not been used in years.

 

[George Harris]

Let's put it this way, Looking at UP's employee timetable, the junction point between these lines, at Weso, just east of Winnemucca, is mile 421.0 on the former SP and mile 535.8 on the former SP. Even if we subtract the 40 miles that the WP is longer than the SP between Oakland and Sacramento, we still have a line that is 75 miles longer out of Sacramento than the route over Donner. By the way, best enjoy that Feather River Canyon scenery, as you will going 25 mph for some 68 miles through it.

 

[gmushial]

Let's put it this way, Looking at UP's employee timetable, the junction point between these lines, at Weso, just east of Winnemucca, is mile 421.0 on the former SP and mile 535.8 on the former SP. Even if we subtract the 40 miles that the WP is longer than the SP between Oakland and Sacramento, we still have a line that is 75 miles longer out of Sacramento than the route over Donner. By the way, best enjoy that Feather River Canyon scenery, as you will going 25 mph for some 68 miles through it.

Is 25 the normal speed through there? Or slow orders?

 

[Alice]

Normal. It is a steep and curvy route through a skinny canyon. I was on an excursion a few months ago and we had to stop for some minor landslides and one large rock on the tracks. Frequently I see a pilot hi-railer in front of some freight trains. One of them cleared the track for us. UP has been using the Feather River route more than usual this year and seems to be doing the bulk of dispatching one way in the daytime and the other way at night.

 

[gmushial]

Normal. It is a steep and curvy route through a skinny canyon. I was on an excursion a few months ago and we had to stop for some minor landslides and one large rock on the tracks. Frequently I see a pilot hi-railer in front of some freight trains. One of them cleared the track for us. UP has been using the Feather River route more than usual this year and seems to be doing the bulk of dispatching one way in the daytime and the other way at night.

As an artifact of all the maintenance work on the Donner summit route perchance?

 

[PRR 60]

The Feather River line is actually less steep than the Donner line, and the maximum elevation is about 1800 feet lower (5221' vs 7057'). The problem with the Feather River line as compared to Donner is that it is longer and more susceptible to rock and mud slides than Donner. The route also bypasses Union Pacific's Sparks yard - a major crew and fueling stop.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Poor Wyoming. Even threads about it get derailed. :giggle:

 

[George Harris]

Normal. It is a steep and curvy route through a skinny canyon. I was on an excursion a few months ago and we had to stop for some minor landslides and one large rock on the tracks. Frequently I see a pilot hi-railer in front of some freight trains. One of them cleared the track for us. UP has been using the Feather River route more than usual this year and seems to be doing the bulk of dispatching one way in the daytime and the other way at night.

Escort of trains by hi-rail through the canyon is fairly common, if not the normal practice. There is a full page in the ETT that I have describing how it is to be done. (This ETT is from 2005 and was on line on a Federal web site for a while.) The essence is constant contact, escort 2 miles ahead of the train with the escort calling the mileposts as it passes them. If escorting 2 trains the second train is to be no more than 8 miles behind the escort, and obviously no closer to it than signals permit. (NOTE: Hi-rails are NOT detected by the signal system.)

As to speed limits, here they are between Oroville and Reno Jct.

Location on points for reference:

138.9 Haggin (point where ex WP crosses ex SP in Sacraamento)

179.4 Marysville

203.7 Oroville

280.7 Keddie (wye to inside gateway line now owned by BNSF)

322.3 Portola

341.5 Reno Jct.

532.1 Winnemucca

Speed Limits

from - to . . .. .speed limit

201.7 - 202.0: . . 30

202.0 - 224.3: . . 45

224.3 - 225.2: . . 35

225.2 - 227.2: . . 45

227.2 - 230.5: . . 25

230.5 - 232.2: . . 45

232.2 - 299.8: . . 25

299.8 - 324.1: . . 30

324.1 - 341.5: . . 70

341.5 - 343.5: . . 50

 

[gmushial]

Normal. It is a steep and curvy route through a skinny canyon. I was on an excursion a few months ago and we had to stop for some minor landslides and one large rock on the tracks. Frequently I see a pilot hi-railer in front of some freight trains. One of them cleared the track for us. UP has been using the Feather River route more than usual this year and seems to be doing the bulk of dispatching one way in the daytime and the other way at night.

Escort of trains by hi-rail through the canyon is fairly common, if not the normal practice. There is a full page in the ETT that I have describing how it is to be done. (This ETT is from 2005 and was on line on a Federal web site for a while.) The essence is constant contact, escort 2 miles ahead of the train with the escort calling the mileposts as it passes them. If escorting 2 trains the second train is to be no more than 8 miles behind the escort, and obviously no closer to it than signals permit. (NOTE: Hi-rails are NOT detected by the signal system.)

As to speed limits, here they are between Oroville and Reno Jct.

Location on points for reference:

138.9 Haggin (point where ex WP crosses ex SP in Sacraamento)

179.4 Marysville

203.7 Oroville

280.7 Keddie (wye to inside gateway line now owned by BNSF)

322.3 Portola

341.5 Reno Jct.

532.1 Winnemucca

Speed Limits

from - to . . .. .speed limit

201.7 - 202.0: . . 30

202.0 - 224.3: . . 45

224.3 - 225.2: . . 35

225.2 - 227.2: . . 45

227.2 - 230.5: . . 25

230.5 - 232.2: . . 45

232.2 - 299.8: . . 25

299.8 - 324.1: . . 30

324.1 - 341.5: . . 70

341.5 - 343.5: . . 50

Poor Wyoming gets no respect ;-) ... but this is good stuff/most interesting - thanks for posting. ... one question though: does anyone have a link to a picture of these hi-rail escort trains? I can imagine what we're talking about, but a picture would be nice.

 

[Alice]

Just imagine that you are parked in a good place waiting for a train. A hi-railer (work truck) comes down the tracks, and you figure they are doing work, there will be no trains, and you might as well go home. But it is a nice day and you haven't finished your sandwich, so you stay. Then a train comes, no photos because your camera is safely stashed out of reach. On the Feather River route, manifest freight can be mile-long, unit trains of tankers (crude?) are shorter. Of course, other days they really are doing work and the trains are stacked up in town. You pass them when you drive down by the double-tracked sections approaching Oroville.

Whooz posted one of my favorite videos, at Williams Loop. This section of track doesn't have slide problems so no hi-railers.