Given the work underway and the low volume and the abandoned bus connections, they should have announced that Columbus would be omitted from the new service until things are straightened out.
St. Paul, Milwaukee, Chicago (TCMC) second daily service
- Thread starter MARC Rider
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I am inclined to agree! I am sure they felt like that would've been untenable since it's the "Madison stop" and people from Madison use that station one way or another. Madison people are generally incredibly obsessed with the idea of getting Amtrak service, it's crazy! If I had a dollar for every time I'd heard someone say or read an Internet comment the effect of "Wait why is this train [Borealis] "skipping" Madison?? Why is there no train to Madison?!" I would legitimately have a substantial sum of money! I mean, I do feel bad for them, but the fact that there's seemingly always more Madison-area people who are just finding out why there's no train service amuses me. It's not a gigantic city or metro area! I'd have thought these facts would be better known.
Given that Madison is the second most populous city in Wisconsin, the state capital, and the home of a University of Wisconsin campus enrolling almost 50,000 students, it seems it would make sense for this city to have Amtrak service or at least a Thruway connection.
jis
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I never worry about people loudly complaining that they do not have train service and need it. That is how you get funding to get the train. I think it is perfectly fine for Madisonians to complain loudly and make life miserable for their political leaders to goad them into action.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Madison shouldn't have Amtrak service, or, to respond to Jis's post below, that people shouldn't complain!! I just find it very funny that there are continually *new* people from a small city/metro who, despite all of the advocacy and valid complaining over the decades, seemingly have no clue as to why the Borealis doesn't serve Madison, or why Madison doesn't have any train service.
Between the Scott Walker administration killing the Milwaukee-Madison project and all of the years of publicity around other efforts, you would think the majority of people in such a politically engaged region would know! So to me there's this funny Groundhog Day-like feeling when I watch new people continually ask the same questions and have the same confused responses that I've seen Madison people have for the last 10+ years!
The problem is Madison people are generally in Madison, not as exposed to talk-radio elsewhere in the state where Madison and the city of Milwaukee are the reliable boogeymen, scapegoats, and punching-bags (all in one!) of every ambitious demagogue.Oh, don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Madison shouldn't have Amtrak service, or, to respond to Jis's post below, that people shouldn't complain!! I just find it very funny that there are continually *new* people from a small city/metro who, despite all of the advocacy and valid complaining over the decades, seemingly have no clue as to why the Borealis doesn't serve Madison, or why Madison doesn't have any train service.
Between the Scott Walker administration killing the Milwaukee-Madison project and all of the years of publicity around other efforts, you would think the majority of people in such a politically engaged region would know! So to me there's this funny Groundhog Day-like feeling when I watch new people continually ask the same questions and have the same confused responses that I've seen Madison people have for the last 10+ years!
Patience - patience - next up the Eau Claire xxx xxx xxx Madison xxx xxx xxx train ???
Hundreds of miles of track not seeing passenger service in years or simply made into
hiking/biking leisure walking trails will need attention upgrading.
Problem is any train funding package going through around NIMBY red republican areas is going to be
a supreme effort.
When the population density gets to the degree of the northeast corridor trains will be back in vogue !
Hundreds of miles of track not seeing passenger service in years or simply made into
hiking/biking leisure walking trails will need attention upgrading.
Problem is any train funding package going through around NIMBY red republican areas is going to be
a supreme effort.
When the population density gets to the degree of the northeast corridor trains will be back in vogue !
Borealis #1340 & EB #8
TODAY May 31
#1340 running on time and on the tail of the LATE #8 EB
Same could be said for EB #7 & a LATE #1333 perhaps on another day
AND then all 4 trains operating on a single track (sidings here and there of course)
TODAY May 31
#1340 running on time and on the tail of the LATE #8 EB
Same could be said for EB #7 & a LATE #1333 perhaps on another day
AND then all 4 trains operating on a single track (sidings here and there of course)
TODAY June 1 - - - it is happening again - an instant replay - - -
#1340 was running on time then ran into the tailgate of delayed #8
#1333 approaching these two opposing trains on a single track - - -
Interesting to see how this develops
#1340 was running on time then ran into the tailgate of delayed #8
#1333 approaching these two opposing trains on a single track - - -
Interesting to see how this develops
I realize this is beyond Amtrak’s organizational and operational capability, but it would be nice if, on days when 8 is running 2-3 hours late, they could just run the Borealis equipment in 8’s slot and have 8 take over 1340’s slot, and at least keep the MSP-CHI service somewhat on-time.
The people showing up for 1340 would unlikely all fit on #8
This would require active management.
So what happens when the Empire Builder is very late? It’s been up to 24 hours late. The Borealis passenger pick this train for a more dependable trip. Might be easier for the Borealis to run in its slot, and just handle the passengers from the late EB. Yeah days will have the two trains run on there markers like the one mentioned, but have a dependable region train is what the States payed for.
Today 6/1 - 1340 has overtaken 8 and passed it between Columbus and Milwaukee
westbound 7 threading the single track through these eastbound
westbound 7 threading the single track through these eastbound
I said 2-3 hours late. 24 is significantly higher than that.
Not everyone of the 1340 train would need to be accommodated
Primarily only those with continuing connections beyond Chicago -
8 should not be unnecessarily delayed
And this situation was not applicable today -
1340 passed the delayed 8 in an effort to keep 1340 somewhat on time
Arm Chair - next day quarterbacking version 101
NW cannonball
Conductor
Here in MSP, this new service Borealis does absolute zilch for us getting to CHI in time for connecting to west-bound trains or the TE.. There's only
The LSL and maybe the CONO and the Capitol Ltd. I use whatever "Midnite Bus" MSP-MKE and the first Hiawatha MKE-CHI to connect to the other Western Long Distance routes from CHI. The Amtrak website shows a "thruway Bus" MSP-MKE-CHI about that I dunno.
But for day-trips MSP-RDW or MSP-WIN -- welcoming the new service eastbound to RDW WIN LSE TOH and the earlier get-home times
Troubled times for the "B" and "EB" trains vicinity of Columbus WI track work ---
TransitTyrant
Lead Service Attendant
Oh dear. The duration of these delays is going to rather muck up the perceptions of the Borealis, at least from a MN perspective where it was promised to be the "train to Chicago that runs on time." I'm worried that people are going to pretty turned off by the delays that apparently can end up being (based on last night which granted was also caused by signals but in general so far) pretty bad. Better than the EB, but not good when a primary selling point for the Borealis was supposed to be that it wouldn't delay you all the time, and up to hours late.
TransitTyrant
Lead Service Attendant
It will still depart St Paul on time which was one the issues with the Builder in that it’s arrival in the Twin Cities is often delayed. Amtrak probably should modify the schedules so as the trains don’t conflict around Columbus the way they do currently.
You're right, point taken! People will at least be pleased (and it will psychologically feel better) to be rolling out of SPUD on time. When I think about it, I think the average passenger is probably more understanding or at least less grumpy about delays incurred after you board the train, compared to a really late initial departure from the station they get on it. It just "feels" better when your train departs on time, at least to me, even if you late arrive late.
I agree Amtrak needs to modify the schedule in some way to prevent the "Columbus confliction," even if that means lengthening the Borealis' schedule by ~15-20 minutes and/or departing earlier/later. I'd think people would mind less if the advertised time increased or the departure times changes a bit than they mind arriving 25-55 minutes late!
Steve's Wanderlust
Train Attendant
Trying to provide Borealis with a marketably amicable departure time from MSP has its pitfalls. This past week's delays were as I suspected would persist through challenging seasons, but less so in Summer. I understand and appreciate the states and Amtrak cooking up a new service, but I felt from the time they announced this past month's debut runs that the concept hasn't spent enough time in the proverbial oven. Some work to build infrastructure to optimize OTP needs to be completed.
Establishing the service and building ridership earlier is an admirable idea, but OTP on the Milwaukee Road river line is a feat within a careful dance of slots. A lot more reverberating effects in winter yet to be seen aside, the bunching at Columbus could occur at several points on any day of the decent season in which they launched the service. I suspect the mild winter greased the wheels, perhaps a touch too optimistically.
Establishing the service and building ridership earlier is an admirable idea, but OTP on the Milwaukee Road river line is a feat within a careful dance of slots. A lot more reverberating effects in winter yet to be seen aside, the bunching at Columbus could occur at several points on any day of the decent season in which they launched the service. I suspect the mild winter greased the wheels, perhaps a touch too optimistically.
On another note the 1333 sure has a problem arriving anywhere near on time at SPUD.
First point of congestion is the Hastings river crossing
Then the merging of the tracks in St. Paul Park (vicinity of Glen Road & Hy61) and next up passage by the CPKC freight yard getting on the inner right trackto cross through the Division St WYE and into SPUD
The "B" train is capable of 60 + mph but crawls through this area at less than 15 mph frequently stopping for host railroad 100 ++ car freight units - - -
YES a dispatchers nightmare moving 60 some trains daily through the WYE.
First point of congestion is the Hastings river crossing
Then the merging of the tracks in St. Paul Park (vicinity of Glen Road & Hy61) and next up passage by the CPKC freight yard getting on the inner right trackto cross through the Division St WYE and into SPUD
The "B" train is capable of 60 + mph but crawls through this area at less than 15 mph frequently stopping for host railroad 100 ++ car freight units - - -
YES a dispatchers nightmare moving 60 some trains daily through the WYE.
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