SunRail Deland extension construction

Once SunRail is operating, an Amtrak passenger could debark at DeLand and use SunRail to fine-tune an arrival point that is not at an Amtrak station. There is a rail stop map on line. Ticketing is electonic--tap on/tap off. SunRail runs between DeLand and south of Orlando to near Kissimmee. I'm not sure of the station but south of the Orlando train station at a SunRail stop there is a connector bus to the airport. Right now there is no weekend service.

Finally- service to start August 12!

Sunrail/FDOT had an open house today to show off the new station in Deland. Actually it’s an historic Amtrak station with a new platform for SunRail. The new parking lot was full - lots of curious residents showed up along with several Orlando TV stations. Booths were set up to provide info and there were many Sunrail/FDOT/Volusia County transit (Votrans) representatives to answer questions.

The train was open for visitors with helpful staff to answer questions and explaing the ticketing system for newcomers. They will repeat this next weekend before it opens for service on August 12. Votrans recently started a VoRide service that operates like Uber, but I think it’s $2 for a senior anywhere in town. The rep said call 30 min before you need it.





The county will build restrooms nearby in connection with a trailhead for the recently completed Spring to Spring (DeLeon, Blue, Gemini) trail (partially follows the tracks) and are working on plans for a shuttle downtown (3 miles) like Sanford has. The trail is paved and connects to another one over to the coast as shown on the map. There had been about a two mile gap in this area. Blue Spring State Park is a major tourist attraction in this part of the state.








The Silver Star arrived with two VLI sleepers


The ramp for disabled was on display as was the bathroom located in the cab car. The seats with a table have power outlets. One of the hosts said be sure a grab the seat on the left side of the front of the cab car for a railfan view of the track ahead. First photo is looking south towards Orlando.





The Sunrail track dead ends just north of the station.



This last photo looking south shows the downtown connection that goes to a nearby industry. It stops about 3 blocks before downtown. It has many grade crossings so I guess that's why it wasn’t considered for SunRail use. The photo also shows the old SCL/Amtrak platform that has been long out of use but was partially reclaimed from the debris and weeds. I wonder why. As you can see it's not really not accessible from the station without walking over gravel. Maybe it's part of the completion of the trail that had ended about a mile south of here but not likely without some protrection for hikers/bikers.

Service starts Monday, August 12. A report from the West Volusia Beacon’ talks about the new service and the funding that transitions from the FDOT to the counties served. This also mentions possible fare increase next year. Service will use current schedules but about 20 minutes before/after the existing times at Debary, the current terminus.

I’ll take a ride next week.

Yesterday I sampled our new SunRail service from Deland to Kissimmee. The photos tell most of the story with the first ones at Deland. My train, the 9:40, arrived about 10 minutes before it reversed direction to head south. I was pleasantly surprised to see a sign that advertised new shuttle sercvice from downtown Deland to the station, 3 miles west. Strangely, though, it only operates in the afternoon. I was blown away by the new parking lot being almost full. Perhaps a lot of first time riders, like myself, heading out for an excursion? Or, as one of SunRail staff mentioned, maybe some commuters found Deland more convenient than the old end of the line, Debary - 12 miles away. Time will tell. The plaltform had maybe 20 passengers waiting to board with many struggling with the ticket machine. Fortunately, as at all stations I visited there was a friendly SunRail staff member providing instruction. Apparently this is a new system and new machines that have some bugs, as I found out later.


Inbound train that will become the 9;40 I was on.



I included this out of focus photo to show the 'Old Florida' look of the railroad between Deland and Debary. It parallels Lake Beresford and the St.John's river. A very popular hike/bike trail is next to it.



Once the train crosse the St. John's at Sanford it's all suburbnan sprawl and then downtown Orlando. This is the Lynx/Central station. Lynx is the Orlando area bus system that will manage SunRail once FDOT turns the responsibility for its operation over to the counties (managed by the Central Florida Reional Transportation Authority - CFRTA) in 2025.





The next stop was the Church St. Station, It's the old ACL station that was last used in the 1920's and had fallen into a derelict area. A developer transformed it into a very popular entertainment, dining, and bar location. At one time it was the most popular SunRail stop. Then Disney developed Disney Srpings and Universal has its version. Today it's more than 30% vacant. The next stop was the Orlando Amtrak station that is very close to the large Orlando Health hospital. It along with the Advent Health hospital stop just north of Orlando were the next popular stops until Covid.. Their ridership has never recovered. This is also true of the many offices in downtown Orlando.

I was surprise to see the third track in Orlando was blocked by track equipement. The conductor said they haven't used it in a long time.






As we neared the Sand Lake Rd stop, we met a northbound. This stop is directly west vof Orlando International airport and where you catch a free, non stop bus ride to the airport, about 15 minutes. There are also buses that connect to he theme parks.



Total time from Deland to Kissimmee, my destination, was 1 hours and 40 minutes. I had planned to return on the Silver Metror but it was running almost 2 hours late as were the southbound Silver Meteor and Star. The small Amtrak waiting room was hot and crowded and it was 95 degrees outside. To be continued.

I decided I would grab a quick lunch and catch the next northbound SunRail to Winter Park to revisit that attractive town. Old town Kissimmee was very nice and I found a good, quick and inexpensive lunch at Broadway Pizza Bar. Their lunch special was an excellent chicken and apple wrap with pasta salad for $7.99. I got back to the station with 5 minutes to spare.

This train, like all three I rode, were clean, on time, with a friendly and helpful crew. I learned from the conductor on one of them they work two round trips each day, five days a week. There are 20 trips each way a day, so you can do the math. He said they would have to hire a lot to staff for weekend operation, something everyone wants but no wants to pay for. For the airport shuttle to be truly useful that's necessity, I think. The growth in SunRail is from leisure travelers, not commuters. And, to lure commuters back, a daily operation seems necessary given the large number of health care facilities on the line that mostly operate 7 days a week.



My wife and I occasionally go to Winter Park for lunch. It'll be so nice to take the train now. It's hard to beat its restaruants, shops, and parks in this upscale community. When I arrived I immediately headed across the park to one of our favorite spots, Pannullo's (has the sort of orange awning). We normally sit at one of the outside tables but after walking around Kissimmee, all I wanted was AC and a cold beer.



I did have a chance to see the late Silver Star arrive with it's standard consist.



While waiting for my train back to Deland, I talked with one of the SunRail staff helping passeners negotiate the new ticket machine. He said one train in the morning had about 40 passengers get off. If you buy a ticket (as opposed to a SunRail Card or their new Mobile App), you scan the ticket. Unfortunately the new scanner is very slow and he had a line of passengers waiting. The Sun Card is the favorite of commuters. You just load money on the card and it can be used for any origin/destination on any train. You just 'tap' it on the reader as you arrive and leave the platform. I tried the App that worked well, until it didn't. You select the trip you want to take (specific origin/destination and time) and it's stored on your phone. You call it up when you're are ready to board and a QR code pops up for the conductor to scan. Except on one of the trips, it didn't. The conductor sighed, and said yes that's one of the bugs if using an IPhone. I also learned that Winter Park is now the most popular stop on SunRail.

I boarded my train home arriving about 3pm - just before a tropical downpour. It was a good, if hot, trip and I hope SunRail succeeds. One of the politcians running for Chariman of the County Commission responded to my enquiry by giving, I thought, a positive reply. It remains to be seen how sincere he was and if others agree.

"Lastly, as it relates to SunRail, my view is that we should seek ways to expand its use so that it becomes more than just a commuter rail. We need to find creative ways to tap into day travel and tourism opportunities to make the system as viable, useful and beneficial as possible.

Wasn't Church Street station SAL at the end of its use as a passenger station,?

Palmland said:

When I arrived I immediately headed across the park to one of our favorite spots, Pannullo's (has the sort of orange awning)

Click to expand...

Yes, my wife and I went there on Amtrak from Palatka for lunch a few months ago. Their food is quite good, and the service was excellent.

west point said:

Wasn't Church Street station SAL at the end of its use as a passenger station,?

Click to expand...

I have always heard it was ACL, but you may be right. According to a 1916 Official Guide the ACL and SAL stations were 100 yards apart. The SAL had two local trains from Wildwood. The ACL had 3 trains, two of them from New York. Both went on to Tampa and Port Tampa where one connected to a steamship for Havanna. Competition for Mr. Flagler, I guess.

Palmland said:

At one time it was the most popular SunRail stop. Then Disney developed Disney Srpings and Universal has its version. Today it's more than 30% vacant.

Click to expand...

SunRail began service in 2014. That was many years after Disney Springs (originally Pleasure Island, then Downtown Disney) and Universal CityWalk opened, and well into the decline of Church Street Station as Orlando's nightlife center.

Palmland said:

As we neared the Sand Lake Rd stop, we met a northbound. This stop is directly west vof Orlando International airport and where you catch a free, non stop bus ride to the airport, about 15 minutes. There are also buses that connect to he theme parks.

Click to expand...

The bus is not free, but SunRail tickets are accepted on the bus as transfers, and bus transfers (which must be requested as you enter the bus) are accepted as partial credit on a SunRail ticket. The bus is not a shuttle, but rather is part of a larger scheduled route, so it runs about every 30 minutes and is not coordinated with the SunRail schedule.

joelkfla said:

The bus is not a shuttle, but rather is part of a larger scheduled route, so it runs about every 30 minutes and is not coordinated with the SunRail schedule.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the corrections. It appears there is one bus route that is dedicated to service between SunRail and the airport that meets all trains. Has this been changed?

Lynx route 111 to Sun Rail

Palmland said:

Thanks for the corrections. It appears there is one bus route that is dedicated to service between SunRail and the airport that meets all trains. Has this been changed?

Lynx route 111 to Sun Rail

Click to expand...

Lynx 111 is discontinued, replaced by Lynx 311. The table below lists SunRail southbound trains at Sand Lake, the next bus scheduled to the airport, and the time difference. Wait times range from 1 minute to 29 minutes. Not exactly "timed to meet all trains."

Too bad, but I guess not enough ridership. Still it looks like it should be a popular route for riders to/from the airport and still nonstop to Sand Lake.


I wonder if Lynx discussion should be moved to Central Florida SunRail thread since the Deland expansion is complete.

Today’s West Volusia Beacon had an excellent Sunrail trip report (much better than mine) of a trip on the new SunRail service from Deland. It included a good description of using the Sand Lake Rd stop and transfer to Orlando International Airport for new terminal C.

Palmland said:

Too bad, but I guess not enough ridership. Still it looks like it should be a popular route for riders to/from the airport and still nonstop to Sand Lake.

I wonder if Lynx discussion should be moved to Central Florida SunRail thread since the Deland expansion is complete.

Click to expand...

111 wasn't discontinued due to ridership. It was discontinued because 311 almost exactly duplicated it's original route when Lynx and Disney conceived it several years ago. Yes everyone, the 111 originally ran to Disney Springs, before being cutback as Disney choose not to pay for that segment any longer, which caused a lot of inconveniences for people heading to the park when it happened years ago, as this article and video from 2012 shows.

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/lynx-considers-eliminating-1-disney-bus-route_nsds7/287791383/

311 is an express route trying to stand out on it's own, so I imagine the bus won't try to connect with Sunrail trains, even though it would be nice if it did. OIA passengers going to Disney for only $2 is a steal for passengers, who use to pay a lot more using other means to get there. Hate to turn this into a Lynx thread, but there is a reason why certain things have occurred with this agency and it's been getting funding for service improvements lately, which is a good thing.

Palmland said:

I learned from the conductor on one of them they work two round trips each day, five days a week. There are 20 trips each way a day, so you can do the math. He said they would have to hire a lot to staff for weekend operation, something everyone wants but no wants to pay for. For the airport shuttle to be truly useful that's necessity, I think. The growth in SunRail is from leisure travelers, not commuters. And, to lure commuters back, a daily operation seems necessary given the large number of health care facilities on the line that mostly operate 7 days a week.

Click to expand...

Unless they can speed the line up and get to the point where 1:35 runs with a 10 min turnback they can't even try and get crews to work 3RT. If they could do so moving to 2 crew sets who work 3 on 4 off alternating with 4 on 3 off would allow weekend service with a smaller amount of new crews.

Caesar La Rock said:

311 is an express route trying to stand out on it's own, so I imagine the bus won't try to connect with Sunrail trains, even though it would be nice if it did. OIA passengers going to Disney for only $2 is a steal for passengers, who use to pay a lot more using other means to get there. Hate to turn this into a Lynx thread, but there is a reason why certain things have occurred with this agency and it's been getting funding for service improvements lately, which is a good thing.

Click to expand...

Let's hope SunRail does a better job of marketing their services, in connection with the counties. If not, the statement in the article I linked above is probably accurate:

"The point is, if the counties aren’t willing to respond, and respond quickly to the needs of the public, SunRail could become an embarrassing white elephant. Flexibility, imagination, and even some risk-taking will be necessary. "

Depending just on commuters isn't going to cut it anymore.

Palmland said:

Let's hope SunRail does a better job of marketing their services, in connection with the counties. If not, the statement in the article I linked above is probably accurate:

"The point is, if the counties aren’t willing to respond, and respond quickly to the needs of the public, SunRail could become an embarrassing white elephant. Flexibility, imagination, and even some risk-taking will be necessary. "

Depending just on commuters isn't going to cut it anymore.

Click to expand...

That statement can also apply to Lynx as well, which has so many chances to become more then just another bus system. I hope for the sake of both Lynx and Sunrail, the counties start to realize they have to take responsibility for them sooner rather then later.

What would be the best but will never happen as too expensive is extend Sun Rail into Daytona Beach which is in the same county Volusia. The speedway would certainly bring in fans especially for weekend service which is not now know to happen.

BTW that unfortunately will make the present Deland Sun Rail station in the wrong place.

west point said:

What would be the best but will never happen as too expensive is extend Sun Rail into Daytona Beach which is in the same county Volusia.

Click to expand...

That would be nice, but far more likely is a Brightline train from Orlando to Cocoa then reverse direction to Jax. It’s only 40 miles to the coast and cruising at 110mph there is probably faster than SunRail on a more direct route.

There has been talk for years about extending SunRail to Daytona but no real interest by those who control the budget.

The fundamental problem that SunRail suffers from is the fact that Hot Air does not translate to Greenbacks. Everyone and their dog waxes eloquent these days in the Orlando area about SunRail but no one has found any success finding the money even to make it a daily and even in ones dreams hourly service during daytime hours, let alone everything else.

As for extensions or SunRail, the current push is more towards Polk County and Lakeland than anything towards Daytona. I think the assumption is that any service to Daytona will happen as an extension of the proposed East - West Corridor using Brightline's track, similar to what is happening in Miami with its Northeast Corridor. Anyway, I suspect Sunshine Corridor and Airport extension at present takes much higher priority over anything else in the Orlando area. Anything to Daytona depends on those coming to fruition. Any thought of a SunRail new construction along the I-4 Corridor to Daytona appears quite unlikely given the costs involved.

jis said:

The fundamental problem that SunRail suffers from is the fact that Hot Air does not translate to Greenbacks.

As for extensions or SunRail, the current push is more towards Polk County and Lakeland than anything towards Daytona.

Click to expand...

From what my relatives tell me you are probably right. Some also believe that there are some persons with monetary interest trying to keep or at least delaying Sun Rail from going to McCoy airport.

I've ignored Sunrail to Daytona Beach for a bit, but I gotta say something about it. With the current outlook and from personal input from a friend who has lived in Daytona since the late 1980s, visits the area, and has ridden the public transportation there, here is the reality.

To be blunt, Sunrail to Daytona Beach won't happen any time soon, I guarantee that. Volusia County just dropped fixed route bus service on the west side after 30 years of it existing, due to low ridership and is replacing it with ride share.

The Deland expansion honestly feels like a vanity project just to finish what was originally envisioned years ago. Sunrail everyone is going further south to Polk County and Lakeland. Orange County is set on getting the Sunshine Corridor studied and funded. Those are Sunrail's next big expansion taking place.

Caesar La Rock said:

The Deland expansion honestly feels like a vanity project just to finish what was originally envisioned years ago.

Click to expand...

Yes, looking at the parking lot seems to support this view. While Deland is nearly twice as large as Debary, the Debary Sunrail parking lot is about 4 times as large as the one they just built in Deland. This is interesting since Amtrak does not use the Debary lot since it does not stop there like it does in Deland, where it shares this smaller parking lot.