Colorado planning

Shop deals on ebay
shop deals on amazon
Advertise with us
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Willbridge said:
Larimer County's non-interest in joining RTD was because it already had a muni system in Fort Collins and subsequently one was set up in Loveland
Click to expand...
I had thought it was because they were satisfied with the intercity service provided by Colorado Motorway, at the time of RTD’s inception. The James family sold their Denver Boulder Bus Company to RTD, and shortly thereafter found a buyer for their CMW with Continental Trailways, which already ran a few trips through many of the same towns on its Denver-Wyoming routes, albeit with an intrastate traffic restriction. When Continental Trailways took it over, they began cutting service, and when it was acquired by Greyhound, even more cuts.

Today, Greyhound is down to just a single trip that way, that just serves Fort Collins on its way across Wyoming to Salt Lake City.
“Bustang” does provide multiple trips with some stops between Denver and Fort Collins…
 
railiner said:
I had thought it was because they were satisfied with the intercity service provided by Colorado Motorway, at the time of RTD’s inception. The James family sold their Denver Boulder Bus Company to RTD, and shortly thereafter found a buyer for their CMW with Continental Trailways, which already ran a few trips through many of the same towns on its Denver-Wyoming routes, albeit with an intrastate traffic restriction. When Continental Trailways took it over, they began cutting service, and when it was acquired by Greyhound, even more cuts.

Today, Greyhound is down to just a single trip that way, that just serves Fort Collins on its way across Wyoming to Salt Lake City.
“Bustang” does provide multiple trips with some stops between Denver and Fort Collins…
Click to expand...
That may have played a part, but local bus service was the main issue. The creation of RTD did include Weld County, and that's how Greeley ended up with a local bus system. The antis wanted out of the new district, but there were people in Greeley-Evans who wanted local bus service, so a threadbare system was set up. Interurban service was ignored, and Greyhound faded away to the single trip run by Express Arrow four days a week.

The local-only phenomenon comes from a political town mentality. I ran across an article in an Eastern Oregon paper from the dawn of motor buses that had merchants from Nyssa objecting to an application for a bus line between there and Ontario, because it would take folks away from local businesses. When I started at ODOT a colleague told me that he had heard the same view expressed elsewhere.


Here's the last Trailways station in Fort Collins. I was following this because some legislators were floating the idea of making RTD statewide. Colorado did not then have a DOT. Our policy was that we were against the statewide idea, but staff had to be ready in case.
1986 055.jpg
 
Snow Plow Clearing a Track - Southern Pacific Co Trains Railroad Original Antique Postcard
$8.99
Snow Plow Clearing a Track - Southern Pacific Co Trains Railroad Original Antique Postcard CardCow
Southern Pacific 9019 Trains Railroad Original Vintage Postcard
$6.99
Southern Pacific 9019 Trains Railroad Original Vintage Postcard CardCow
NORTH CAROLINA BY TRAIN: FOR RESIDENTS AND VISITORS
$4.99
NORTH CAROLINA BY TRAIN: FOR RESIDENTS AND VISITORS Amazon.com Services LLC
Amtrak's French Turbine Train Railroad Scenic Original Vintage Postcard 1977
$12.99
Amtrak's French Turbine Train Railroad Scenic Original Vintage Postcard 1977 CardCow
GRAND FUNK RAILROAD SIGNED USA ELECTRIC GUITAR MARK FARNER BREWER 3X JSA
$1,099.99
GRAND FUNK RAILROAD SIGNED USA ELECTRIC GUITAR MARK FARNER BREWER 3X JSA PIRATES2005
Scenes Along The Oversea Railroad - Key West Extension Florida - 1919 Curt Teich Souvenir Postcard Folder #1039
$21.75
Scenes Along The Oversea Railroad - Key West Extension Florida - 1919 Curt Teich Souvenir Postcard Folder #1039 grinvideoproductions
USA by Rail: plus Canada's main routes (Bradt Travel Guide)
-15%
$21.97 $25.99
USA by Rail: plus Canada's main routes (Bradt Travel Guide) Amazon.com
Southern Pacific Steam Locomotive Trains Railroad Original Antique Postcard
$12.99
Southern Pacific Steam Locomotive Trains Railroad Original Antique Postcard CardCow
All Aboard: The Complete North American Train Travel Guide
-69%
$6.23 $19.95
All Aboard: The Complete North American Train Travel Guide RNA TRADE LLC
The Fact Digest May 1941 Life In A Shelter, Railroad Facts
$10.00
The Fact Digest May 1941 Life In A Shelter, Railroad Facts J And J Collectibles
AMTRAK SILVER STAR : ROUTE MAP FOR YOUR TRIP
$2.99
AMTRAK SILVER STAR : ROUTE MAP FOR YOUR TRIP Amazon.com Services LLC
USA by Rail Plus Canada, 8th Edition
-70%
$7.57 $24.99
USA by Rail Plus Canada, 8th Edition ThriftBooks-Phoenix
Ken Carson - Hawkeye / Working on the Railroad - Media 7" 45 RPM
$5.99
Ken Carson - Hawkeye / Working on the Railroad - Media 7" 45 RPM Heiden Productions
The Daylight Southern Pacific's New Streamline Train Trains Railroad Original Antique Postcard
$6.99
The Daylight Southern Pacific's New Streamline Train Trains Railroad Original Antique Postcard CardCow
Completion of the First Transcontinental Railroad trading card (Promontory Summit Utah, 5/10/1869) 2009 Topps Heritage #113
$4.00
Completion of the First Transcontinental Railroad trading card (Promontory Summit Utah, 5/10/1869) 2009 Topps Heritage #113 Autograph Warehouse (AW Authentic)
In recognition of the fact that start-up money might be available from new sources, and from the political recognition that unrelated complex tax measures are headed for Nov. 2024 ballots, the Front Range district's executive board has recommended holding off a vote till Nov. 2026.

https://www.cpr.org/2024/05/21/front-range-rail-vote-delayed/
 
The ColoRail newsletter is available now in pdf form at:

https://www.colorail.org/newsletter-archive

Issue #95 includes information on the General Meeting to be held in Boulder on Saturday, June 1st, and on pages 7 & 8 a wrap-up of the successful WPX season.

The General Meeting will follow up on this year's rail and transit bills.
 
Very interesting article (and some of the links were fascinating as well).

Had those rail routes held on another 5-6 years into the big 70's ski boom they might already have regular services today. There is certainly enough demand year round (certainly in summer & winter plus local/regional commuter traffic off season) for tourism traffic to have kept them going.
 
PaTrainFan said:
Interesting. I was not aware the Moffat Tunnel was state-owned.
Click to expand...
It was built and owned by the Moffat Tunnel Commission. Normally, the commissioners had short, safe, male Anglo names and were unknown to the general public. After it was paid off, new commissioners began discussing whether they had the authority to operate passenger trains. I attended one of their last meetings; last because lobbyists swung into action and the Republican legislature abolished the commission and handed the tunnel to CDOT. The Union Pacific leases the tunnel.

There was a funny consequence. In the rush, some politicians thought that CDOT (aka the Highway Department) would get to spend the reserves that the commission had built up. It turned out that the savings account had to be split up based on population in the 1920 census, which meant that Democrats in Denver got most of the money. The beautiful waterfront park north of Union Station is the result.

As an election judge I used to have to explain the commission vote to people. Only people who owned property within the Denver boundaries when the district was formed were supposed to vote. It was a headache for some, but others of us got a kick out of it.
1992 Moffat voter002.jpg1992 Moffat voter001.jpg
 
Thanks, that's amazing and led me to read the two Wikipedia pages on the matter. Reminds me of Disney's district in Florida. Also brings to mind the many semi-public entities and state agencies with their own revenue. PANYNJ must be the largest. But that's another matter.

In the case of Moffat and Disney, it does seem democratic civic engagement and awareness won out eventually? Ben Franklin would be proud?

Next time I'm in Denver I'll visit the park.
 
Willbridge said:
Just an update, but it shows the continued interest here in improving the national network. At this weekend, radio reporters are supposed to be fretting about holiday traffic

https://www.cpr.org/2024/09/03/feds...tance-passenger-rail-routes-through-colorado/
Click to expand...
What a dream that would be, if it all happened. The one least likely, is that proposed route from Denver to Minneapolis via Pierre...I'm still scratching my head over that one....😁

I suppose they figure to gain support by including state capitals...
 
And would anyone know if there has been any planning or proposals in recent years in linking Denver and Kansas City, perhaps as part of a, say, St. Louis to Denver route?
 
Charles785 said:
And would anyone know if there has been any planning or proposals in recent years in linking Denver and Kansas City, perhaps as part of a, say, St. Louis to Denver route?
Click to expand...
Yeah, you would think that would be a good route.
If not, the proposed one which in part connects Omaha to Kansas City, might offer the possibility of a decent connection…
 
Charles785 said:
And would anyone know if there has been any planning or proposals in recent years in linking Denver and Kansas City, perhaps as part of a, say, St. Louis to Denver route?
Click to expand...
As @railiner says, there has been discussion of adding a KC to Omaha route - then the CZ. There has also been talk about a connection to the SWC at LaJunta. The advantage to that would be serving Pueblo and Colorado Springs.

I doubt the old Kansas and Pacific route across Kansas will ever again see the likes of the City of StLouis or Portland Rose. The line has been downgraded and sees only locals and occasional unit coal or grain trains.
 
Palmland said:
As @railiner says, there has been discussion of adding a KC to Omaha route - then the CZ. There has also been talk about a connection to the SWC at LaJunta. The advantage to that would be serving Pueblo and Colorado Springs.

I doubt the old Kansas and Pacific route across Kansas will ever again see the likes of the City of StLouis or Portland Rose. The line has been downgraded and sees only locals and occasional unit coal or grain trains.
Click to expand...
Right…UP freight trains between Denver and Kansas City now take the roundabout route via Cheyenne, and the Gibbon Cutoff…the old City of Denver route between Lasalle and Union is gone.
 
Charles785 said:
And would anyone know if there has been any planning or proposals in recent years in linking Denver and Kansas City, perhaps as part of a, say, St. Louis to Denver route?
Click to expand...
Sadly, the FRA LD Service Study does not include restoration of direct service between KC and Denver on their lengthy, and sometimes fanciful, list of possible routes. If that study isn't even considering it then it has virtually no chance of being restored anytime in the next half-century. The FRA Study gives preference to routes that were in-service as of April 1971, but discontinued later. Unfortunately, MoPac (Colorado Eagle) and UP (City of St. Louis) had long pulled out of the KC-Denver market by 1971.
https://fralongdistancerailstudy.org/
 
lrh442 said:
Sadly, the FRA LD Service Study does not include restoration of direct service between KC and Denver on their lengthy, and sometimes fanciful, list of possible routes. If that study isn't even considering it then it has virtually no chance of being restored anytime in the next half-century. The FRA Study gives preference to routes that were in-service as of April 1971, but discontinued later. Unfortunately, MoPac (Colorado Eagle) and UP (City of St. Louis) had long pulled out of the KC-Denver market by 1971.
https://fralongdistancerailstudy.org/
Click to expand...
Actually, while partner N&W pulled out of the City of Louis operation in June of 1968, thereby cutting off thru-service to St. Louis, UP continued service between Kansas City and Denver with the City of Kansas City in this manner all the way to April 30, 1971.
 
39kartma said:
Actually, while partner N&W pulled out of the City of Louis operation in June of 1968, thereby cutting off thru-service to St. Louis, UP continued service between Kansas City and Denver with the City of Kansas City in this manner all the way to April 30, 1971.
Click to expand...
Yes, and a coach Train 117/118 ran the daylight DEN<>KCY run after the UP was ordered to continue operating the Portland Rose.

The FRA study had a formula for identifying routes and DEN<>KCY didn't fit. However, as noted above, an OMA<>KCY link made it in as part of a LD route. A Thruway bus ran OMA<>KCY for a while, with a stop in St. Joe. I used it once to Train 5 and it made a good service, but it was killed by Train 6 running late so often.
 
lrh442 said:
Sadly, the FRA LD Service Study does not include restoration of direct service between KC and Denver on their lengthy, and sometimes fanciful, list of possible routes. If that study isn't even considering it then it has virtually no chance of being restored anytime in the next half-century. The FRA Study gives preference to routes that were in-service as of April 1971, but discontinued later. Unfortunately, MoPac (Colorado Eagle) and UP (City of St. Louis) had long pulled out of the KC-Denver market by 1971.
https://fralongdistancerailstudy.org/
Click to expand...
The UP’s City of Kansas City, the successor to the City of St Louis, was not “long gone”, KC to Denver service on UP lasted to Amtrak day.
 
CDOT schedules meetings on Mountain Rail study. Not certain what the graphics mean...

0876d9d0-f046-4d4b-98db-19f877e20228.png


A more modern approach is likely to be taken when ColoRail holds its fall meeting in Fort Collins on Saturday, November 16th.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top