Colorado planning

[railiner]

Larimer County's non-interest in joining RTD was because it already had a muni system in Fort Collins and subsequently one was set up in Loveland

I had thought it was because they were satisfied with the intercity service provided by Colorado Motorway, at the time of RTD’s inception. The James family sold their Denver Boulder Bus Company to RTD, and shortly thereafter found a buyer for their CMW with Continental Trailways, which already ran a few trips through many of the same towns on its Denver-Wyoming routes, albeit with an intrastate traffic restriction. When Continental Trailways took it over, they began cutting service, and when it was acquired by Greyhound, even more cuts.

Today, Greyhound is down to just a single trip that way, that just serves Fort Collins on its way across Wyoming to Salt Lake City.
“Bustang” does provide multiple trips with some stops between Denver and Fort Collins…

 

[Willbridge]

I had thought it was because they were satisfied with the intercity service provided by Colorado Motorway, at the time of RTD’s inception. The James family sold their Denver Boulder Bus Company to RTD, and shortly thereafter found a buyer for their CMW with Continental Trailways, which already ran a few trips through many of the same towns on its Denver-Wyoming routes, albeit with an intrastate traffic restriction. When Continental Trailways took it over, they began cutting service, and when it was acquired by Greyhound, even more cuts.

Today, Greyhound is down to just a single trip that way, that just serves Fort Collins on its way across Wyoming to Salt Lake City.
“Bustang” does provide multiple trips with some stops between Denver and Fort Collins…

That may have played a part, but local bus service was the main issue. The creation of RTD did include Weld County, and that's how Greeley ended up with a local bus system. The antis wanted out of the new district, but there were people in Greeley-Evans who wanted local bus service, so a threadbare system was set up. Interurban service was ignored, and Greyhound faded away to the single trip run by Express Arrow four days a week.

The local-only phenomenon comes from a political town mentality. I ran across an article in an Eastern Oregon paper from the dawn of motor buses that had merchants from Nyssa objecting to an application for a bus line between there and Ontario, because it would take folks away from local businesses. When I started at ODOT a colleague told me that he had heard the same view expressed elsewhere.


Here's the last Trailways station in Fort Collins. I was following this because some legislators were floating the idea of making RTD statewide. Colorado did not then have a DOT. Our policy was that we were against the statewide idea, but staff had to be ready in case.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Whoever drew that sign did a nice job with it!

 

[Willbridge]

Whoever drew that sign did a nice job with it!

Given the service reductions, they had time to work on it.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Given the service reductions, they had time to work on it.

Ha, yes! But still a nice job.

Funny, I was running arounds yesterday and we saw two Trailways buses nearly simultaneously - one crossing over and another merging and was thinking of the various threads here.

 

[Willbridge]

Here's a link to the Colorado governor's press release regarding his signing bills that provide money for intercity rail and urban transit.

https://www.colorado.gov/governor/n...ng-colorados-air-quality-and-expanding-access

 

[Willbridge]

In recognition of the fact that start-up money might be available from new sources, and from the political recognition that unrelated complex tax measures are headed for Nov. 2024 ballots, the Front Range district's executive board has recommended holding off a vote till Nov. 2026.

https://www.cpr.org/2024/05/21/front-range-rail-vote-delayed/

 

[Willbridge]

The ColoRail newsletter is available now in pdf form at:

https://www.colorail.org/newsletter-archive

Issue #95 includes information on the General Meeting to be held in Boulder on Saturday, June 1st, and on pages 7 & 8 a wrap-up of the successful WPX season.

The General Meeting will follow up on this year's rail and transit bills.

 

[Willbridge]

Here's an update on rail passenger projects in Colorado.

https://www.rockymountainpost.com/e...ster-than-front-range-colorado-lawmaker-says/

 

[PaTrainFan]

Here's an update on rail passenger projects in Colorado.

https://www.rockymountainpost.com/e...ster-than-front-range-colorado-lawmaker-says/

Interesting. I was not aware the Moffat Tunnel was state-owned.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Very interesting article (and some of the links were fascinating as well).

Had those rail routes held on another 5-6 years into the big 70's ski boom they might already have regular services today. There is certainly enough demand year round (certainly in summer & winter plus local/regional commuter traffic off season) for tourism traffic to have kept them going.

 

[Willbridge]

Interesting. I was not aware the Moffat Tunnel was state-owned.

It was built and owned by the Moffat Tunnel Commission. Normally, the commissioners had short, safe, male Anglo names and were unknown to the general public. After it was paid off, new commissioners began discussing whether they had the authority to operate passenger trains. I attended one of their last meetings; last because lobbyists swung into action and the Republican legislature abolished the commission and handed the tunnel to CDOT. The Union Pacific leases the tunnel.

There was a funny consequence. In the rush, some politicians thought that CDOT (aka the Highway Department) would get to spend the reserves that the commission had built up. It turned out that the savings account had to be split up based on population in the 1920 census, which meant that Democrats in Denver got most of the money. The beautiful waterfront park north of Union Station is the result.

As an election judge I used to have to explain the commission vote to people. Only people who owned property within the Denver boundaries when the district was formed were supposed to vote. It was a headache for some, but others of us got a kick out of it.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

Thanks, that's amazing and led me to read the two Wikipedia pages on the matter. Reminds me of Disney's district in Florida. Also brings to mind the many semi-public entities and state agencies with their own revenue. PANYNJ must be the largest. But that's another matter.

In the case of Moffat and Disney, it does seem democratic civic engagement and awareness won out eventually? Ben Franklin would be proud?

Next time I'm in Denver I'll visit the park.

 

[Willbridge]

Just an update, but it shows the continued interest here in improving the national network. At this weekend, radio reporters are supposed to be fretting about holiday traffic

https://www.cpr.org/2024/09/03/feds...tance-passenger-rail-routes-through-colorado/

 

[railiner]

Just an update, but it shows the continued interest here in improving the national network. At this weekend, radio reporters are supposed to be fretting about holiday traffic

https://www.cpr.org/2024/09/03/feds...tance-passenger-rail-routes-through-colorado/

What a dream that would be, if it all happened. The one least likely, is that proposed route from Denver to Minneapolis via Pierre...I'm still scratching my head over that one....

I suppose they figure to gain support by including state capitals...

 

[Charles785]

And would anyone know if there has been any planning or proposals in recent years in linking Denver and Kansas City, perhaps as part of a, say, St. Louis to Denver route?

 

[railiner]

And would anyone know if there has been any planning or proposals in recent years in linking Denver and Kansas City, perhaps as part of a, say, St. Louis to Denver route?

Yeah, you would think that would be a good route.
If not, the proposed one which in part connects Omaha to Kansas City, might offer the possibility of a decent connection…

 

[Palmland]

And would anyone know if there has been any planning or proposals in recent years in linking Denver and Kansas City, perhaps as part of a, say, St. Louis to Denver route?

As @railiner says, there has been discussion of adding a KC to Omaha route - then the CZ. There has also been talk about a connection to the SWC at LaJunta. The advantage to that would be serving Pueblo and Colorado Springs.

I doubt the old Kansas and Pacific route across Kansas will ever again see the likes of the City of StLouis or Portland Rose. The line has been downgraded and sees only locals and occasional unit coal or grain trains.

 

[railiner]

As @railiner says, there has been discussion of adding a KC to Omaha route - then the CZ. There has also been talk about a connection to the SWC at LaJunta. The advantage to that would be serving Pueblo and Colorado Springs.

I doubt the old Kansas and Pacific route across Kansas will ever again see the likes of the City of StLouis or Portland Rose. The line has been downgraded and sees only locals and occasional unit coal or grain trains.

Right…UP freight trains between Denver and Kansas City now take the roundabout route via Cheyenne, and the Gibbon Cutoff…the old City of Denver route between Lasalle and Union is gone.

 

[lrh442]

And would anyone know if there has been any planning or proposals in recent years in linking Denver and Kansas City, perhaps as part of a, say, St. Louis to Denver route?

Sadly, the FRA LD Service Study does not include restoration of direct service between KC and Denver on their lengthy, and sometimes fanciful, list of possible routes. If that study isn't even considering it then it has virtually no chance of being restored anytime in the next half-century. The FRA Study gives preference to routes that were in-service as of April 1971, but discontinued later. Unfortunately, MoPac (Colorado Eagle) and UP (City of St. Louis) had long pulled out of the KC-Denver market by 1971.
https://fralongdistancerailstudy.org/

 

[39kartma]

Sadly, the FRA LD Service Study does not include restoration of direct service between KC and Denver on their lengthy, and sometimes fanciful, list of possible routes. If that study isn't even considering it then it has virtually no chance of being restored anytime in the next half-century. The FRA Study gives preference to routes that were in-service as of April 1971, but discontinued later. Unfortunately, MoPac (Colorado Eagle) and UP (City of St. Louis) had long pulled out of the KC-Denver market by 1971.
https://fralongdistancerailstudy.org/

Actually, while partner N&W pulled out of the City of Louis operation in June of 1968, thereby cutting off thru-service to St. Louis, UP continued service between Kansas City and Denver with the City of Kansas City in this manner all the way to April 30, 1971.

 

[Willbridge]

Actually, while partner N&W pulled out of the City of Louis operation in June of 1968, thereby cutting off thru-service to St. Louis, UP continued service between Kansas City and Denver with the City of Kansas City in this manner all the way to April 30, 1971.

Yes, and a coach Train 117/118 ran the daylight DEN<>KCY run after the UP was ordered to continue operating the Portland Rose.

The FRA study had a formula for identifying routes and DEN<>KCY didn't fit. However, as noted above, an OMA<>KCY link made it in as part of a LD route. A Thruway bus ran OMA<>KCY for a while, with a stop in St. Joe. I used it once to Train 5 and it made a good service, but it was killed by Train 6 running late so often.

 

[toddinde]

Sadly, the FRA LD Service Study does not include restoration of direct service between KC and Denver on their lengthy, and sometimes fanciful, list of possible routes. If that study isn't even considering it then it has virtually no chance of being restored anytime in the next half-century. The FRA Study gives preference to routes that were in-service as of April 1971, but discontinued later. Unfortunately, MoPac (Colorado Eagle) and UP (City of St. Louis) had long pulled out of the KC-Denver market by 1971.
https://fralongdistancerailstudy.org/

The UP’s City of Kansas City, the successor to the City of St Louis, was not “long gone”, KC to Denver service on UP lasted to Amtrak day.

 

[Willbridge]

CDOT schedules meetings on Mountain Rail study. Not certain what the graphics mean...

A more modern approach is likely to be taken when ColoRail holds its fall meeting in Fort Collins on Saturday, November 16th.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Timber Steam Trains!!

Awww, it's in Fraser! I wonder if the Fraser Brazier is there there...