Fare Buckets discussion 2023 Q4 - 2024

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zephyr17 said:
You look it up on the app or website when you decide you might like to do it. Amtrak has multiple yield management buckets and inventory is allocated to them. Both Flex and Value step up through the buckets as the inventory allocated to each bucket sells out and the next one up opens.

Airlines are not particularly forthcoming, either, about their yield management practices on fares when the same restrictions apply. Since all Amtrak fares are either Flex or Value, the same restrictions apply to all fare buckets. It appears to me under current practices that they share the same inventory buckets, with an upcharge for Flex. I think that is a change from their former practice when there were much greater fare differences, a highly restricted fare type called Saver could sell out and Flex appeared pretty much fixed at high bucket. Now it looks to me like both Flex and Value are available now at all bucket price points with a relatively small price difference between them and Saver was eliminated.
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Thanks, there is no question that airlines make it difficult to figure this out. But at least with some airlines, you can check what the price differential is at any time. Certainly United makes it possible when you do a "Change Flight" and I have used this a lot, especially after change fees went away. I can not quite see how to do this with Amtrak Flex. Indeed, most Amtrak changes in my experience have been possible only by calling, which adds time to the mix.
 
Aarem said:
Thanks, there is no question that airlines make it difficult to figure this out. But at least with some airlines, you can check what the price differential is at any time. Certainly United makes it possible when you do a "Change Flight" and I have used this a lot, especially after change fees went away. I can not quite see how to do this with Amtrak Flex. Indeed, most Amtrak changes in my experience have been possible only by calling, which adds time to the mix.
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Checking fares and changing the ticket are two different things. You can look up the fare any time by making a "dummy" reservation. That is the fare you will be charged if you modify to that train at that point in time. If you decide to do it later, the fare can be different. Exactly the same thing applies to the airlines, except perhaps SWA, the fare is only offered in any discount fare class at that point in time, if you don't take it, it can, and probably will, change later. Their restricted fares actually tend to fluctuate more than Amtrak's. The only one that tends not to is unrestricted, full-fare "Y" class.

As to modification, a simple coach ticket change can be done online pretty easily with Flex fares. I understand people on the NEC do it at the last minute fairly frequently. I tend to do changes with an agent for more complex itineraries, though.

Airline websites are generally better designed and have better functionality than Amtrak's poor one. Nevertheless, you can still check fares for other dates/times on it.

The main difference in the fare quotes between Amtrak and airlines is a last minute change/purchase for airlines would generally be at full, "Y", walk up fares. You can usually always see those on airline sites since unrestricted fare are always available. Amtrak's Flex used to be a pretty direct equivalent, now they progress through buckets with the Value fares.
 
zephyr17 said:
Well, with what appears to be the switch to two Viewliners from two Superliners starting in November, there's only 4 Bedrooms on each departure instead of 10.
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Rumor has it that it might be three Viewliner, but may not be so immediately in November. In any case that just adds two more bedrooms
 
dlagrua said:
Amtrak pricing has surely gone up to the highest levels that we have seen. Price a cross country bedroom trip and it can be as high as $7000 in spring and summer. Yikes!
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And people continue to pay those prices. No different than those who spend thousands at Disney on a single visit, and don't blink an eye doing it. There are three kinds of people............those that can, those that can't, and those that won't regardless.
 
Sidney said:
$424 for a nine hour trip and during the day. That’s the lowest price?.. and incredibly, someone will actually pay that.
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Bonser said:
But once Amtrak sells that seat doe a relatively short ride they can’t sell it for the longer one. So I hate to admit it but I can understand their reasoning.
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This past January, I made coach reservations for two on the CS the from KEL to KLA in June because the roomette price was nearly $500 for the 10-hour trip, even though I was booking nearly 6 months in advance. At the same time, I made roomette reservations from KLA to LAX (23 hrs) for about the same price. Before departure, I injured myself and really wanted a roomette, but I refused to pay that price. I was offered an opportunity to bid up and I checked online and found roomettes were still available, so I bid $200, just slightly over the minimum...and I got it!
Now, $200 plus the price of the coach seats was still a little expensive, but when the price of 4 dining car meals (2 lunches and 2 dinners, about $130), is considered, not bad at all, at least in my opinion.
 
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I'm looking at booking from CMO (Chemult, Oregon) to Sacramento in late January. I first looked at OKJ (Oakland Jack London Square) as a destination, then decided I wanted to stop in Sacrament for a couple hours (breakfast with a cousin). The roomette from CMO to OKJ was $336, and from CMO to SAC (a shorter trip) it is $536!! Wow, that's quite a premium, and for what?

For perspective, I can book CMO to MTZ for $320. Amtrak will let me do that, and then book from SAC to OKJ, any time after the Starlight has arrived in MTZ. So I could just get off early, and let my attendant know why. Just wondering what kind of glitch or error there is regarding SAC.
 
Probably not a glitch. Amtrak pricing inventory varies by destination or set of destinations in a metropolitan area. Inventory for Sacramento probably jumped buckets while those for the Bay Area didn't. Also Amtrak sometimes overcharges for relatively short segments in sleepers to preserve space for passengers with longer rides. This usually is done for daytime segments, not overnight, so I don't think that's it.

There is no issue with getting off early. Just let the attendant know.
 
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I logged into my account.
Via "My Trips" I selected "Details" from my "Upcoming Trips" list.
In that window I chose the button "Modify Trip".
There I selected the same date as the original trip, chose the same options and refund to original form of payment.
Just got another room number.
 
PeeweeTM said:
I'm now hunting for the next lowest Sunset Limited bucket! ;)
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Your finding of the $719 Roomette fare is now the lowest one found, so there may or may not be a lower one. Maybe.

The SL now has 6 Roomette buckets and 5 for the other sleepers.

In addition, all previously posted SL buckets are now up by $1. Mickey Mouse strikes again!! (and a spot check of some other trains indicates they've probably all gone up by $1)
 
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TheVig said:
And people continue to pay those prices. No different than those who spend thousands at Disney on a single visit, and don't blink an eye doing it. There are three kinds of people............those that can, those that can't, and those that won't regardless.
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True, unfortunately it's pushing out riders who enjoy taking the train but now finding the fares to be too pricey. On the website after you click "add to cart" you get surprised by how much the fare increase. The higher fares are to Amtrak's benefit so...
 
Pipp said:
True, unfortunately it's pushing out riders who enjoy taking the train but now finding the fares to be too pricey. On the website after you click "add to cart" you get surprised by how much the fare increase. The higher fares are to Amtrak's benefit so...
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The biggest sleeper consists on Superliner trains these days are 2 standard sleepers and transdorm. That means a capacity of about 30-34 roomettes, depending how many are released for sale in the transdorm, 10 bedrooms, 2 family rooms and 2 accessible rooms on each departure at most. Not all trains have that many. The biggest Viewliner consists are 3 sleepers. They apparently only sell 10 of the 12 roomettes in each car, so that means 30 roomettes, 6 bedrooms and 3 accessible rooms. Again, not all trains have that many sleepers.

The supply, as you can see, is highly constrained. It really does not take all that much demand to fill it. Rationing a scarce luxury commodity, which a sleeper room is, despite maintenence and service issues we all know about, is done by price in market economies. Amtrak is merely leveraging the advantage control of a scarce supply gives it, as any rationally run organization would do. The intelligence and rationality of Amtrak executive management is often questionable, but here they are making perfectly rational pricing decisions.

Many here argue sleepers are a poor value proposition, that First Class airfares and cruise cabins are often cheaper. I agree that sleepers at best are a poor value proposition, even at lower buckets. At high buckets they are a downright terrible value proposition. However, value proposition is not what determines pricing decisions, supply and demand does and at that point it is pretty much math. As long as there are enough new riders who want to try out train travel but do not understand what they may be getting themselves into, and enough veteran riders who do but go anyway, to fill that highly limited inventory, pricing will remain high. That will hold until either Amtrak degrades so much it manages to drive off its limited sleeper clientele or increases capacity.

We all can and do make our own purchasing decisions just as Amtrak makes its own pricing decisions. A sleeper room is very much a discretionary "luxury" purchase. No one is entitled to one any more than one is entitled to a lie-flat First Class airline seat. For myself, I won't purchase in higher buckets (or get bedrooms). That is where tools such as railsforless.us and @niemi24s' invaluable bucket charts come in, as well as observing yield management pricing patterns for trains I ride most frequently. Those tools help enable me to ride at a price I am willing to tolerate, which in no way should be conflated with "cheap".

Bottom line, we are observing an iron law of economics in action. You can mourn it all you like, but you cannot change it any more than King Canute could hold back the tide.
 
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