FRA estimates 36 hours for Chicago/Nashville/Atlanta/Miami service (43mph average over the 1,531 mile route). The new Floridian is 46 hours 29 minutes (49mph average over 2,302 mile route).
And track improvements, etc. could get that down to below 30 hours?
The 36 hours is after $3 Billion worth of track and infrastructure improvements. Of course another $3 Billion would get you several more hours possibly. And another $6 Billion would get you even more hours of reduction.
Another alternative might be via the City of New Orleans, and a restored Sunset-East.
So sad. I’m sure everyone is tired of hearing about the streamliner era of the 50’s, 60’s but.. The Dixieland left Chicago at 9:10am and arrived at Miami 4:55pm next afternoon, about 31 hours.
I know the LIRC track was improved back in 2018 to support freight going 49mph max, up from 25mph. Wish there was an easy way to find speed limits
Top speeds in the 50s and 60s were 79 most places, the same as now. Welded rail is no faster than well maintained stick rail. CTC and computerized track warrants do not inherently mean faster speeds than ABS and train orders.
Good points although, as you mention, the railroads will demand track improvements due to self inflicted capacity constraints. And there is also the cost of building new stations. In most of the major cities the grand old ones have been repurposed into hotels or convention centers (although JAX could possibly revert to its original purpose). And then there is equipment. But $36 billion still seems extravagant.
$36 Billion world be excessive but it appears it isn't $36 Billion, but $3 Billion and a 36 hour schedule.
$3 Billion sounds like a lot but when you consider what gets routinely spent on highway improvements in this country, where they might drop that much just rebuilding one freeway interchange, it really isn't that outlandish.
Fact check needed.
$435 million for a single, relatively little used interchange in a city of under 90,000--Duluth, MN! Crazy money even then, but no $3 billion! Still is more money than the state of MN has ever invested into passenger rail, ha. Even if the Northern Lights Express to Duluth happens, they've allocated under $200 million so far to that project, and in the $10s of millions total for the Borealis and all the study work.
Admittedly I was using a bit of hyperbole here, but I think you get the point, that vast sums of money get routinely shoveled out for highway projects without anyone questioning it, whereas relatively smaller amounts spent on rail get scrutinized.
One story had it at $510m for the Duluth interchange. For some context, the county is 201K, and metro Duluth including the Wisconsin side is 327K. That's not quite in top 100 in the US, but it's the second largest metro MN. And the city is built below a cliff in the Iron Range.
of it. The powers that be are investing in container facilities. While this might explain some things, it's still clear MN has so far only added one single frequency train; its cost saving is apparently why that train runs with Horizon cars; and getting back a minimal train to Duluth will take a while. Choices. It's hard to emphasize that frequency works, in those circumstances. "An empty highway is seen as a sign of success, an empty train as one of failure."
I agree, but the amount of traffic even on lightly used interchanges is probably vastly greater than what passenger trains would bring…
Sure you don't mean CSX? True. both CSX and NS have lines between Chattanooga and Atlanta, but if you are coming from Nashville, you will be on CSX. Also, the CSX line is both shorter and faster than the NS route, though both are far from I-75 in both length and reasonable time. This segment is a small example of many of the issues with a direct Chicago to Florida train. You are going cross grain to the Appalachian chain, so the rail lines will be longer and curvier. The CSX line between Atlanta and Chattanooga was built in about 1850 as the Western and Atlantic, and so far as I know this segment is still owned by the state of Georgia. (It was the route of the Andrews Rail in the War Between the States, otherwise known as the Great Locomotive Chase. The L&N ran a memorial of that even on its centennial with the restored 4-4-0 General pulling one late 1800's coach. The engine ran as its original steamer, but modified to burn diesel fuel instead of wood.) The NS line was built by the Southern sometime between the end of the war and around 1900.
No problem. my home turf. Both these more or less parallel lines are fairly heavily used. It actually would not have surprised me if someone had proposed using the NS Chatty to Atl. I could see some politician in Rome GA saying, hey, we need to train to come through here. Oh, by the way, my wife's second cousin's next door neighbor runs a consulting business, why don't we give him about $50,000 to study this.
Regarding the Tacoma I-5 work, all that cost and 20 years of construction have done little to reduce the miles of congestion we get at certain times of day.One story had it at $510m for the Duluth interchange. For some context, the county is 201K, and metro Duluth including the Wisconsin side is 327K. That's not quite in top 100 in the US, but it's the second largest metro MN. And the city is built below a cliff in the Iron Range.
A good part of the project is for trucks going to the port. The volume at the port has stagnated, due to decreases in coal and grain, with ore still the bulk
Now, expensive interchanges. I did find one at $900m, the NJ side of Philly. And it's had other problems.
One mega project in cost is the Tacoma HOV lanes, $1.8b. Fully separated HOV lanes look a lot like rail corridors, and must cost more. They are safer than 10-lane freeways, but not as safe as trains.
I too was surprised at the $3b number for setting up Amtrak between Chicago and Florida via Atlanta. It seemed low. Brightline Florida cost several billion, how much ever went to tracks and bridges, and two tunnels under a highway, and rebuilding the highway's ramps. (The new corridor part was only 20 miles of the project.) In Virginia the NER is a big success, but the payouts to NS and CSX have been in nine figures several times, and the distances are not large. There was almost no choice as I-95 is about maxxed out in width, including separated lanes. (To make passenger volume, rail in VA is oriented to the NEC, as it is in NC for travel outside the state, in the state-supported category. That's to make volume, a different goal would be to make network. Another would be to serve more small places. Bring back flag stops!)
As the Transit Costs Project said, English-speaking places consistently come in high, including Hong Kong and Singapore. And for some reason, the Netherlands. Back around 1960 in the U.S. there was hue and cry over the "million-dollar-a-mile" cost the interstate highway system had risen to. At the time, the federal gasoline tax at the pump was about 50%. It's now 18.4 cents. Perhaps there was some postwar pride mixed with bemusement at not being able to control costs.
Edit: 9 figures, not 6 to upgrade tracks
