I'm taking the westbound CZ in a month! For Glenwood Canyon, should I also get to the SSL extra early? Is 20 mins before Glenwood Springs station enough?
California Zephyr first time rider
- Thread starter maboevers
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
You will love the Zephyr! There really isn't a "best" side of the train because there is incredible scenery on both sides of the train. Westbound, I'd recommend grabbing a seat in the lounge car right after you leave Denver and staying there until lunch time - that is when you climb up and go through the Rocky Mountains and there is so much to see you really want to be in the lounge.
I have a standard carry-on-size suitcase and it fits nicely on the "step" in the roomette next to the seat. I like to keep it in the room with me for easy access.
I have a standard carry-on-size suitcase and it fits nicely on the "step" in the roomette next to the seat. I like to keep it in the room with me for easy access.
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
I've taken the Zephyr several times and the only times I've seen the SSL actually full was westbound through the Rockies usually until around Winter Park. At other times it may be crowded, but you can usually find a seat.
Sometimes you have to be a bit adamant about sharing seats... couples will try to "reserve" an entire booth to themselves, if the car is crowded every open seat is an open seat and the scenery is worth it.
I like sitting at a booth better than the lounge seats - but I always make it very obvious that I welcome others to join me - this is a great way to make friends on the train as well!
20 minutes before Glenwood Springs you'll be in Glenwood Canyon westbound.
Myself, I'd go to the Sightseer 30 or 40 minutes after Granby for Gore Canyon and stay in it until Glenwood Springs.
caravanman
Engineer
Lots to see from the Zephyr. Some pics from my 2014 visit.
The good ones do.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
Amtrak staff behavior can be highly variable. But in my experience it is more the rule than the exception that in Sleepers the Sleeping Car Attendant comes by to welcome new boardings and offers to give a short orientation. Of course frequent riders like me have a little chit chat about other stuff and really don;t go through the orientation one more time. But for new riders that is a very nice thing.
Anybody have any timing suggestions on when to make sure to hit the SSL going eastbound? I know that it seems to be the less favorable direction, but my partner and I will be going EMY to DEN mid-November with two 2nd floor roomettes across from each other and wanna make sure that we get the most out of it that we can. I'm presuming we'll encounter a good bit of snow by then?
Probably head to the SSL around Green River or a bit after so as to ensure seats through Ruby Canyon.
They'll likely be some snow at higher elevations. A "good bit" by only mid-November is chancy at best.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
The main reason this forum was originally created was to fill in the gaps left by Amtrak's official sources. Even if you're a careful traveler and ask every question you can think of many Amtrak call center staff have never ridden Amtrak and have no idea how it actually works in person. Sleeper attendants will know how things work on their train and will generally ask if you're familiar with Amtrak and go over the basics to get you up to speed. They may check-in periodically to see if you need anything but there will be times they're busy or off duty so it's not like flying where service staff are always available. One way that traveling on Amtrak is similar to flying is if you're traveling in coach the service staff will mostly ignore you unless you flag them down or do something they dislike.
Beautiful pictures! For the uninitiated, the one with the tracks streaming away is from the back car of the train, usually after a bunch of coaches. Well worth the walk. Totally legal for sleeping car passengers and a chance to find out how the other half lives. The back door, if hopefully not too dirty, is a great place to hang out and take pictures.
Couldn't help but notice that one of the side pictures looking forward appears to be from an open door window. Strangely enough, it is extremely easy to open the door window in a Superliner train. And no harm done *except* that you will get yelled at for it. It is technically easy but very illegal. I think these days not opening windows is part of the safety announcement.
Which brings back a *very* old story. People under 60 may not know that until about 40 years ago, trains simply dumped toilet waste directly onto the tracks. An old railroad jingle:
"Passengers will please refrain
From flushing toilets while the train
Is standing in the station."
The Superliners were built with dump toilets. I'm not sure if it happened immediately, but soon a valve was added that only opened the dump if the train was moving over a certain speed. Later common sense prevailed and kicking and screaming Amtrak installed retention tanks and honey wagons to empty them. Not something they really wanted to get involved with.
Which brings me back to the open Superliner window. Many years ago I was standing with some other train nuts at an open window, taking pictures when a conductor walked by. He said,
"I'd close that window if I were you, boys. If you feel a fine mist in the air, it ain't Mountain Dew..."
Superliner Is were built with "indirect dump". Waste went into a "macerator" then into small retention tanks which would periodically dump as a fine mist at speeds over 30(?). I recall announcements on the Starlight approaching Vancouver, WA for attendants to set their cars to "inhibit", inhibiting the dump cycle to prevent the Starlight from crapping on Portland.
Superliner IIs had full retention tanks from the start.
Both types always had the vacuum toilets that fed into storage tanks. The difference was the capacity of the tanks and method of emptying them.
I remember the direct dump toilets, which had a flap at the bottom, some of which opened into a pipe that dumped on the tracks somewhere else. On others the flap just opened and you could look down at the ties flashing by when you flushed.
There were never any toilet malfunctions or stinky cars with those very simple direct dump toilets. The downside to passengers was the toilets were usually locked in larger stations and even traversing through some metropolitan areas.
Grey water was and is drained directly onto the tracks. You can still see the ties through the shower drains on some cars.
Finally, I remember hanging out a vestibule Dutch door on an SP excursion train as a teenager and wondering where the water that would sometimes hit me was coming from in the middle of the Mojave Desert's Antelope Valley.
Last edited:
My favorite part is Gore Canyon. It is on the south side of the route. If I am not on the correct side, I will go to the SSL (sightseer lounge) to see what I want. Do open up the photos below, and check out the wildlife (eagles, elk) viewable in Gore Canyon. I've heard there are mountain sheep, as well, but haven't seen one yet.
The eagle is in the top of a dead tree right on the riverbank (third image):
The elk is just above the river, left center (second image):
I also like the section between Grand Junction and Green River. Though not as spectacular as some areas, the red rock and river make a very striking contrast with the usual brilliant blue sky. View in this section on both sides:
The eagle is in the top of a dead tree right on the riverbank (third image):
The elk is just above the river, left center (second image):
I also like the section between Grand Junction and Green River. Though not as spectacular as some areas, the red rock and river make a very striking contrast with the usual brilliant blue sky. View in this section on both sides:
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
I have taken photos that show what happens when the Superliner retention systems break and spill sewage all over the floor, but far more common is when the fumes from the retention system get sucked into the HVAC. Guess which route has more problems with the retention system than any other I've traveled. (CZ) If this was the common sense solution I'd choose the uncommon version next time.
That's probably because of the lower pressure differential due to altitude. The vacuum system does not exert as much force against the lower pressure so is even more prone to clogging than it normally is. The Zephyr tops at 9200 feet and stays over 6,000 feet for extended periods. That's higher and longer than other trains.
Last edited:
Very good point. Also it is the train where one is most likely to want to open a door and see the scenery
Anyway, this is mostly very old venting. I don't want to discourage newbies from the amazing CZ experience!
That's against Amtrak policy and they make announcements about it if they see you. The engineer has mirrors and often checks the consist on curves. If they see someone has a window open they'll radio back. If they catch you at it you'll get a stern warning if it's a conductor, maybe a softer one if it's an attendant.Very good point. Also it is the train where one is most likely to want to open a door and see the scenery
It isn't like the old days when nobody really cared about "vestibuling".
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
I've been on the Zephyr several times and I've never seen the SSL completely full eastbound, but of course it could happen. It will get a bit shadowy and dark going through the Rockies but that means looking out and down on the city of Denver in twilight as you descend the "Big 10" curves.
As for snow... I've ridden the Zephyr in January and not seen any snow at all, and I rode in October and it was like being inside of a snow globe - completely magical. November is a good chance in my book!
Last edited:
Prohibiting passengers from opening windows is not just another of those arbitrary “rules”. It can be downright dangerous at times, such as passing a freight train either standing or moving on an adjacent track, where sometimes things like steel cargo tie-down bands can be loose, and can slap you right across your eyes.
Just don’t do it!
Just don’t do it!
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
It's enjoyable to ride in vestibules when it's permitted. When Iowa Pacific ran the "Pullman" cars on the back of the City of New Orleans it was allowed and I've been on a few mainline steam excursions when they allowed it too (some only allowed with safety glasses).
I understand and follow Amtrak's rule, but I'm a certified Vestibule Hog when it's allowed! (Not to be confused with Lounge Lizard in the SSL.. I'm that too! haha)
cirdan
Engineer
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2011
- Messages
- 3,849
I much prefer being able to reserve. I tend to prefer eating lunch late, and I wouldn't want to be refused service because all seats are taken in the last round.
The private Rocky Mountaineer train through the Colorado Rockies has a custom designed open air viewing area.
Looking for that picture, I found this really well done YouTube promo piece.
Note that the RM is a "coach" only train, you spend nights in decent hotels, which simplifies things somewhat.
If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.
Digressing a bit, the RM seems to be a popular and for some folks worthwhile experience. However I'm not going to give them money because when COVID hit, they cancelled several years worth of trains in Canada, and refused to issue refunds, only vouchers. If you didn't use the vouchers in a year, you lost your money completely. Apparently Canada law and their fine print allowed voucher payment for cancellations, but not in the US. This wouldn't affect the Denver run, but buyer beware...
Last edited:
cirdan
Engineer
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2011
- Messages
- 3,849
In Europe this practice continued until much more recently, and can still be encountered in several countries today. Even on tier 1 inter city trains.
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
I'm under 40 and I remember them - not sure when they were completely discontinued.
Yes! Alaska Railroad has this too. I've ridden them on Alaska but not Rocky Mountaineer yet... I'd like to take it in Canada one day but for now my budget is VIA Rail in Coach haha.
These platforms are set back a bit further than the vestibule doors - still open air, but much better when it comes to clearances.
Latest posts
-
-
-
Superliner trains' removal and restoration of cars 2024- Latest: F900ElCapitan
-
-
-
-
-
-
