Rail service and travel by rail in India and Bangladesh

cirdan said:

Without wishing to detract from the argument about the better build of these cars, no doubt having already saved countless lives, a caveat is that the amount of damage inflicted is dependent on the speed at the moment of impact. In physics, the kinetic energy scales with the square of the speed, meaning a train going at double the speed has four times the kinetic energy, or a 41% greater speed means a 100% increase in kinetic energy. It is this kinetic energy that is chiefly responsible for things being torn apart on impact. So one should be careful comparing damage without also knowing the speeds involved in both cases.

Click to expand...

We know the speed (50mph) and we also know that an ICF consist would have had several cars split open at that speed.

caravanman said:

Gosh, I too am impressed that the LHB carriages did not telescope or rip apart, as well as the front of the loco looking "fairly okay"... I wonder what type of goods wagons were run into, maybe quite low level, given the loco's frontal condition.
I seem to remember reading that couplings should not break apart in an accident, but I can't be sure? Definitely a blessing that it was not ICF old style stock!
The video lingers on the points at one time, and it certainly looks like many bolts are missing...

Click to expand...

The last car of the freight train, a Guard Van was completely demolished and apparently dissipated a significant amount of energy. The next wagon was damaged beyond repair.

For comparison of damage BTW, in the rear end collision of a freight into Kanchanjungha Express in North Bengal with an ICF consist, the last car was flattened and destroyed beyond recognition. The third and fourth car from the rear lost structural integrity and the second car from the rear climbed on top of the freight locomotive. The speed at impact was 40kph, half the speed of this one, but the momentum/KE of the loaded freight train arguably was more than that of a loaded 24 car passenger, though it was a relatively light train as far as freights go.

The LHB cars did exceptionally well in the Coromandal Exp. crash at Bahanaga Bazar too in the 130kph crash though the first car lost structural integrity. The fact that 5 of the cars in the front were General Unreserved Second Class played a key role in the significant level of casualty.

Here are some interior photos of the first delivered Vande Bharat Sleeper EMU...

AC 2 Tier Sleeper:

AC First Class Compartment:

All berths are 6' long.

They are capable of being certified for 200kph (125mph), but are currently certified for 160kph (100mph) where civil speed limits allow.

According to an article in the website greaterkashmir.com (which unfortunately has a bunch of malicious links in it) the first through service from New Delhi to Srinagar is slated to start operating over the completed Kashmir Rail Link in January 2025.

The holdup , as discussed earlier in this thread, has been the so called Tunnel T1/T33 which crosses the Main Thrust Fault, a 70 M stretch of very weak and crumbled rock formation with huge amount of water incursion. The tunnel through that section has now been completed and stabilized, and track laying work is in progress, to be completed by 20th December.

Although there is yet to be a firm date announcement, the scuttlebutt is that service will be inaugurated around 26th of January, India's Republic Day. In addition to local intra-state service between Jammu and Baramulla, there will at least be one through service from New Delhi to Srinagar, operated by a Sleeper Vande Bharat consist. It will be an overnight train departing New Delhi around 7pm, arriving in Srinagar the next day at around 8am.

Here is a fair use excerpt from the article posted in the malicious link infested web site:

Banihal, Nov 17: In a move aimed at improving connectivity with Kashmir, the New Delhi-Srinagar Vande Bharat Express is set to start in January 2025.

The train will cover a distance of 800 km in less than 13 hours.

The semi-high speed train will depart from New Delhi at 7 pm and reach Srinagar at 8 am the next day. A trial train is currently being run between Sangaldan and Reasi.

. . . .

Engineers say that work is currently underway on Tunnel T33 and will be completed in about a month.

Officials said, “The work will be completed on all 4 stations between Reasi and Katra by December 20, after which the Director Safety will observe a trial train run for 15 days till January 5.”

According to officials, after January 5, the remaining work on this track would be completed. Officials of Northern Railway said that Prime Minister Narendra Modi would probably dedicate the New Delhi-Baramulla railway line to the nation on January 26.

Click to expand...

Howrah Station Complex serves Kolkata and is the largest station in India with 23 platform tracks and over a million footfall each day. It consists of two terminals, - Terminal 1 or the Old Complex with platforms 1 through 15 and Terminal 2 or the New Complex with tracks 16 through 23. Each terminal has a cabway that serves two platforms where you can pull up in your road transport next to the train.

The Terminal 1 Cabway serves Platforms 8 and 9 which are used by premier named trains like the Rajdhani (New Delhi), Poorva Express (New Delhi), Kalka Mail/Netaji Express (Delhi Jn., Kalka), Amritsar Mail, Mumbai Mail, via Prayagraj (Allahabad) Cheoki, Saraighat Express (Guwahati/Assam), and various Shatabdi Expresses (New Jalpaiguir for Darjeeling, Ranchi, Patna etc.) and 16 car Vande Bharat Expresses (New Jalpaiguri, Patna).

The Terminal 2 Cabway is between 21 and 20, and is used by premier trains headed towards Mumbai via Nagpur (Mumbai Mail via Nagpur, Geetanjali Express, Mumbai/Pune Duronto Express) and towards South India (Chennai (Chennai Mail), Bengaluru (Howrah - SMVT Superfast), Secunderabad/Hyderabad (Falaknuma Express) etc.).

Howrah Terminal 2 is slated to grow even bigger with the addition of two more platforms, well, actually one completely new platform (24) and the second one (16) is restoration of a platform that is out of general use at present. So it will become a 24 platform track station. The work is funded and is expected to be completed within a year.

Physically there is still space for further expansion with the addition of upto 4 more platforms, before its tarts butting upto the Railway Museum adjacent to the station. Meanwhile many trains from the South and South-West have been moved out fro Howrah to the new satellite station Shalimar a couple of miles down the road along the riverfront. Still the pressure for growth is huge, and this is not the last expansion.

Of course in addition to the surface rail platforms, it also has two Metro platforms now in India's deepest Underground station on the East -West Metro Line 2.

jis said:

Railway Museum adjacent to the station.

Click to expand...

I have passed through Howrah Station several times, I never realised there was a rail museum nearby. Looks like I will have to go back to India again!

Folk might like this Youtube video of the station activities, although slightly dated:

caravanman said:

I have passed through Howrah Station several times, I never realised there was a rail museum nearby. Looks like I will have to go back to India again!

Click to expand...

You will almost not recognize Howrah Station with the number of changes already done or in progress:

1. The Arch Bridge across the throat serving Howrah Station (Chandmarhi Bridge) which carries the historical Grand Trunk Road across the rail tracks is being replaced by a cable stayed bridge which is about double the size and 1.5 time the length of the arch bridge, which will be removed. This will facilitate a broader throat allowing addition of more through tracks to the station reducing congestion in that part of the approach.

2. The large head house for the Kolkata Metro Howrah Station between tracks 15 and 16 is quite impressive. Of course the actual station tracks and platforms are some 90' below. Two platform track with platforms on both sides all platforms with screen doors and fully air conditioned. When it is in full CBTC operation the system is capable of running 2 min headway/

3. A total of 6 platforms (12 platform tracks) are being lengthened to be able to handle 26 car trains. At present there are only 4 tracks that are long enough for that.

4. The entire concourse area is going through a massive upgrade, allegedly to make it similar to be equivalent to what the Kolkata International Airport Terminal looks like.

5 Already mentioned above is the addition of platforms.

In spite of all this three satellite terminal are being developed to off load traffic from Howrah Complex. These are a Shalimar, Shantragachhi on the South Eastern Railway side and Dankuni on the Eastern Railway side. These all eventually will be connected by Metro lines, but that is at least 10 years away. Until then one will have to use EMU Suburban service to get to them from the Howrah Complex.

Additionally there is now a completely new station in Kolkata called Kolkata in the Chitpur locality of Kolkata near Dum Dum Jct. on the Kolkata Circular Railway suburban line, which offloads traffic from both Howrah and Kolkata's other large terminal Sealdah, which is also undergoing a huge expansion. As it turns out Howrah is the largest station in India and Sealdah is the second largest station in India by traffic and footfall.

jis said:

3. A total of 6 platforms (12 platform tracks) are being lengthened to be able to handle 26 car trains. At present there are only 4 tracks that are long enough for that.

Click to expand...

26 cars + the lead in loco or switcher. So what is the length of the longest car in passenger service? That will determine the length of the 26-car platform Then what are the sit-down capacities of each type? Are some other cars shorter?

There are many types of passenger cars in India, the newer loco hauled cars are called LHB cars, at just over 77' in length, and the older style of cars are known as ICF cars, are about 73' in length.

There are many classes of travel, most of the loco hauled trains will have 4 or 5 classes, with varying capacity. Air Conditioned 2 tier berths, which are my usual preference offer a sleeping berth for all passengers. The LHB have 54, and the ICF have 46 berths.

All seating cars are known as chair cars, and have about 80 seats, from memory. The unreserved most basic coaches seem to accommodate many more than the designed numbers. There are a few double deck trains, with seats numbering 120 per car.

Newer train units are being introduced frequently now, with modern facilities, but I don't know the seating capacities.

caravanman said:

There are many types of passenger cars in India, the newer loco hauled cars are called LHB cars, at just over 77' in length, and the older style of cars are known as ICF cars, are about 73' in length.

Click to expand...

77 feet would put platform just over 2100 feet including a shuttle loco and road loco. certainly, makes Amtrak a third world RR with capacity limitations.

west point said:

26 cars + the lead in loco or switcher. So what is the length of the longest car in passenger service? That will determine the length of the 26-car platform Then what are the sit-down capacities of each type? Are some other cars shorter?

Click to expand...

Would be 26 cars plus one loco typically since nothing operates into/out of Howrah with more than one locomotive. But it is possible that they will use 2 locos as the baseline since some train might show up with either a second loco because one loco failed or because it got assigned a WAG12 married pair 12,000HP loco.

Longest car is 78' for LHB and 72' for ICF/Schlieren.. The 26 cars is using LHB since the ICF/Schlieren cars are in the process of being withdrawn and replaced by LHBs.

The reason I say 2 locos as all trains are pulled into the blocks by a switcher and then the road loco at the head end of the train.

west point said:

The reason I say 2 locos as all trains are pulled into the blocks by a switcher and then the road loco at the head end of the train.

Click to expand...

The road loco of an outgoing train need not have a platform next to it though. All the space you need is to platform 26 cars plus a shunter or a road loco for incoming trains. It is the latter where you have to make allowance for an incoming train possibly coming in with two locos (a failed loco and a substitute) or an articulated twin unit (WAG12).

caravanman said:

There are many types of passenger cars in India, the newer loco hauled cars are called LHB cars, at just over 77' in length, and the older style of cars are known as ICF cars, are about 73' in length.

There are many classes of travel, most of the loco hauled trains will have 4 or 5 classes, with varying capacity. Air Conditioned 2 tier berths, which are my usual preference offer a sleeping berth for all passengers. The LHB have 54, and the ICF have 46 berths.

All seating cars are known as chair cars, and have about 80 seats, from memory. The unreserved most basic coaches seem to accommodate many more than the designed numbers. There are a few double deck trains, with seats numbering 120 per car.

Newer train units are being introduced frequently now, with modern facilities, but I don't know the seating capacities.

Click to expand...

Indeed

A standard overnight Mail/Express as opposed to special category expresses (e.g. Rajdhani, Duronto, Hunsafar, Garib Rath etc.) are basically three trains in one:

1. Unreserved Second Class (GS) 4-6 cars per train
2. Reserved Non-AC Chair Car (D) and/or 3 Tier Sleeper (S) 3-16 cars
3. Reserved optional AC Chair Car (C) and/or Executive Chair Car (E), and a mix of AC Sleepers (3 Tier (B), 2 Tier (A), First Class compartments (H) all types may not be present in a train).

It is uncommon to find any Chair Car in overnight trains, they are predominantly A and B Class with predominance of B Class, and may carry one H Class or a combo H and A Class car. OTOH daytime express trains usually may have at least one or two C Class, and the balance D and GS. Most Regional passenger trains and MEMUs have only GS Class.

In addition there special higher density AC Sleepers Economy (M and G) which appear in some trains. AFAIK G is exclusive to Garib Rath Expresses being the lowest fare AC Sleeper accommodation in IR. Garib Rath roughly translates to Chariots for the Poor.

caravanman said:

I have passed through Howrah Station several times, I never realised there was a rail museum nearby.

Click to expand...

I've often thought it would be great if you could set your phone to alert you anytime you were near something like a railroad museum. Kind of like how in-car maps will show you petrol stations, restaurants, and hotels for each upcoming exit. Back in the day third party GPS systems could be loaded with user-created lists of whatever you wanted, but I'm not sure if that's still possible now that most of them are gone and most people use their phone's default instead.

jis said:

The road loco of an outgoing train need not have a platform next to it though. All the space you need is to platform 26 cars plus a shunter or a road loco for incoming trains. It is the latter where you have to make allowance for an incoming train possibly coming in with two locos (a failed loco and a substitute) or an articulated twin unit (WAG12).

Click to expand...

Does Indian Railways not when needed attach a second loco for purposes of positioning moves, in the way railroads in many other countries do, even Amtrak at times. A non-revenue loco-only move would require an additional engineer as well as planning and coordination of a path for the move, and so just adding that loco to a train that is running anyway may be the preferable option.

cirdan said:

Does Indian Railways not when needed attach a second loco for purposes of positioning moves, in the way railroads in many other countries do, even Amtrak at times. A non-revenue loco-only move would require an additional engineer as well as planning and coordination of a path for the move, and so just adding that loco to a train that is running anyway may be the preferable option.

Click to expand...

Institutionally the commercial department handles passenger rakes while the power department handles the locomotives. The loco sheds often are nowhere near the passenger rake storage yards. So the rake and the loco are coming from different locations and hence they do not come pre-packaged. The rake is pulled in by a shunter and the loco comes in and attaches to the train. For arrivals the process is reversed.

Having said that, they are not very doctrinaire about it, and are flexible. They tend to do what works out to be most efficient for a given situation. In case of Howrah Station the Eastern Railway rakes and locos come respectively from Tikiapar Passenger Yard and Liluah Electric Loco Shed both within a couple of km, but which are not easy to get to from each other, so the rakes and locos come separately to the station. For South Eastern Railway OTOH, both the passenger yard and the Electric Loco Shed are in Shantragachhi 5km away. In this case the train is formed together with the loco at Shantragachhi Yard and is towed in as a unit over the 5km by a shunter, and vice versa.

In a large station like Howrah there are half a dozen shunters running around doing yard work anyway, so the additional staff is not a major issue. The shunters would be needed anyway to pull even the fully formed train into the station since it is prudent to make sure that the yard moves take up as little time as possible crossing the station interlocking plant into the platform. So slow speed backups using the road power is a no no.

I understand what you mean. I think your reply relates more to switching and train formation operations, whereas my enquiry was more related to long distance positioning moves which might lead to trains being double headed (or alternately the second loco hauled as a dead load) even when from the point of view of power and performance double-heading is not required. Such moves might extend the length of a rake beyond its normal length.

Are exit signals at each platform located just at the end of a platform? If not the only space on the platform would be for shunter and train. If located at end of platform the space for shunter and road loco is needed. JIS what are your observations? Maybe some of each at different stations and even some platforms at same station?

west point said:

Are exit signals at each platform located just at the end of a platform? If not the only space on the platform would be for shunter and train. If located at end of platform the space for shunter and road loco is needed. JIS what are your observations? Maybe some of each at different stations and even some platforms at same station?

Click to expand...

The starter signal for each platform track is near the fouling mark of the point where the track meets another track which typically is well beyond the end of the platform. Afew platforms though even today are way longer than 26+2, and those have the starter signal somewhere near the end of the platform.

cirdan said:

I understand what you mean. I think your reply relates more to switching and train formation operations, whereas my enquiry was more related to long distance positioning moves which might lead to trains being double headed (or alternately the second loco hauled as a dead load) even when from the point of view of power and performance double-heading is not required. Such moves might extend the length of a rake beyond its normal length.

Click to expand...

I guess I don’t understand what you mean by positioning move? Positioning from where to where for what purpose?

jis said:

I guess I don’t understand what you mean by positioning move? Positioning from where to where for what purpose?

Click to expand...

As in moving locomotives from workshops to the cities where they will work (or vice versa), or reshuffling equipment to cover seasonally changing demand and schedules.

cirdan said:

As in moving locomotives from workshops to the cities where they will work (or vice versa), or reshuffling equipment to cover seasonally changing demand and schedules.

Click to expand...

They don’t do much empty equipment positioning on commercial runs. They run separate equipment positioning trains. Commercial runs, specially of trunk line mail/express do not have slack space for additional cars beyond their normal consists.

Of course every commercial run is positioning of that equipment for the next linked run. Some trains have dedicated rakes. Other trains have rakes that are shared among multiple trains. This information can be found documented in the indrailinfo web site, on the page for each train together with the rake composition. Also the normal loco type and link (including the home shed of the loco) is documented there.

One more thing that is documented is the en route direction reversals if any. Many trains reverse direction of travel. IIRC the largest number of enroute reversals is at least four and maybe five. One or two reversals are numerous. At least one Rajdhani also has one enroute reversal - the Bilaspur Rajdhani at Nagpur.