Fort Worth to Los Angeles bad service

drdumont · Dec 5, 2024

The whole trip was fraught with unpleasant, unfriendly service.
The SB Eagle was at least a city block down the tracks from the platform in FTW. All the way down past the old control tower. When I asked the SCA why, I was told "Coaches are back there". He seemed miffed when I showed him my Bedroom ticket. Never got an answer to my query.

Trip kinda went downhill from there, including having the Conductor called upon me in the Diner West of SAS. I had been shown to a seat at a table occupied by two folks.
Ahhh. Old School Dining car! As I was getting settled against the window, I had laid my tablet on the seat next to me in order to get my leg brace unlocked. The DC "server" barked at me that "Others were coming and you cain't reserve no seat". OK, let it slide. As coffee and OJ was plunked down, she then brusquely told me to put away my tablet OR ELSE. I was reading my morning prayer (not out load, not moving my lips, no sound from me). When I asked (I confess, with some asperity) if I could finish my prayer, she told me "This ain't no lounger (sic) car, this here's the Diner!". As I attempted to explain, she turned and yelled down the car, calling the Conductor, that she "had a situation here". He simply told me to comply or get out. Period. End of lecture. As I was locking my leg brace, she told me to "Go on now".

Apropos of nothing whatsoever, I happen to be 77, was dressed in coat and slacks, polished shoes and yarmulke.

Returning to my room, I called AGR, was transferred to a Customer Agent and related the story. This seemed to strike a chord, they offered me a refund, which was really unnecessary. A typewritten letter arrived a week later, with an apology and a credit for a round trip of my choice in the future, in a sleeper, yet.

Don't know the back story, but Conductor later came and apologized: "I didn't know the facts...". We had a nice chat, the matter was closed.
Never saw that "server" again. I returned for lunch and dinner WITH MY TABLET, not a word was said. The new "Server" was the usual pleasant, attentive kind, and was tipped heavily. By then of course we had a new Operating crew, but I wonder what became of that shrew...
In all my 70+ years traveling by train, dating back to the 50's, I've not seen the likes of that, even during the Dark Days of the 1970s.

I've made a couple of trips since then, including the Crescent and Sunset/Eagle all the way to DAL. I napped thru FTW, don't know where they are boarding nowadays.

Our Round trip to Chicago over Thanksgiving was pleasant as well, (With the exception of the FLEX slop), The DAL staff are great, and literally INSIST we ride from the station to trainside.

John Santos · Dec 5, 2024

Last time I rode the Eagle (in April to San Antonio to watch the eclipse), the southbound dining car attendant (who was also the cafe attendant in the split diner/cafe car) was very brusk with many detailed instructions about when you could use the diner and when you could use the cafe and how long you could occupy the tables, etc. but it turned out she was just overworked doing both jobs and actually allowed people to set there as long as they wanted, provided no one was waiting for a seat. Also, there were extremely onerous variations of her rules that only applied to Jim (who was in the roomette directly across the hall from me.) Jim just laughed and I think they were old friends, but people could easily have misunderstood. Returning home, the diner attendant was average, nothing special. The food was flex but there was a cook downstairs who was trying to make the best of what she was given.

The FTW stop was very long and I had plenty of time to walk back to the station, wander around and watch the other trains, etc. The Eagle was parked way down the platform for no obvious reason. (Maybe to allow a Heartland Flyer to arrive and depart and the Eagle might have been blocking the tracks if it parked closer to the station.)

I was thinking when I read your post that you might have an action under the ADA, but I think what actually happened (calling AGR and getting a credit and obviously having the customer service system actually work to improve the service, was much better and far less stressful for you than suing Amtrak or silently fuming for the rest of the trip (as I would most likely have done.)

alpha3 · Dec 5, 2024

Glad it was a better ending for you, but I'm still totally mystified as to why Amtrak puts up with these miserable employees that go out of their way to make a trip as unpleasant as possible. I've also had both versions, good and bad.

Tlcooper44 · Dec 5, 2024

So sorry for your awful trip experience.
This story is rather astonishing - the level of customer service in this story would be completely unnacceptable on the airlines (though I struggle to find a comparable situation), let alone any other service.

drdumont · Dec 5, 2024

John Santos said:
I was thinking when I read your post that you might have an action under the ADA, but I think what actually happened (calling AGR and getting a credit and obviously having the customer service system actually work to improve the service, was much better and far less stressful for you than suing Amtrak or silently fuming for the rest of the trip (as I would most likely have done.)

Indeed, I could have gone that way. I try not to make a big deal about my leg. I'm pretty fortunate that it doesn't really hamper me and there are many folks not as fortunate. Does give the TSA the clammydamps when it shows on the scanner. It's carbon fiber, apparently news of this technology has not reached the consciousness of those Stalwart Defenders of the Airways.

My main gripe here was the churlish attitude of this wannabe fascist. Assuming I was a seat hog, a table hog, or whatever, I presume she assumed I was, with no Idea that I have been riding trains from before she was born (even before I was born), knew the ropes, and was indeed delighted to be seated in the Old School Diner manner, regardless of the hideous cuisine. The cowardly act of calling in reinforcements, then HIS assumption that I was some kind of FLEX terrorist bent on disrupting the peace and tranquility of the Diner was what was really unacceptable. He later admitted off the record that he had misstepped and after thinking over the episode was really regretful. We parted at the crew change with a genuinely warm handshake.

While I will appreciate even more my complementary round trip on the ( Zephyr out, Empire Builder In ) courtesy of this harridan, I sincerely hope that bringing the episode to AMTRAK's attention had some salubrious effect on training and supervision. Hope springing eternal and all that...

Oh, for the return of the Passenger Service Attendant (I can't remember the terminology) who supervised not only the Diner, but the rest of the Attendants. I guess it was just a kindler, gentler time.

Bob Dylan · Dec 5, 2024

I know this OBS person, they are notorious for how they treat passengers, and lots of the Crew Members do not want to work with such a dictator!

Several years ago a similar Food Service Grouch, after many complaints, was removed from the Texas Eagle route out of Chicago for such behaviour.

Unfortunately,as the old saying goes, you never know just what you'll get when riding on Amtrak!

como · Dec 5, 2024

I'm sorry about the bad experience, Some of what you describe is just a decline in customer service everywhere, and more importantly, a decline in people being kind to each other. Of course we never know what was going on in the server's life that day, and if her interaction with you was in response to other events.

Devil's Advocate · Dec 5, 2024

I've seen this sort of attitude many times on Amtrak. The worst interactions are rarely directed at me personally, but when I see Amtrak staff barking orders and treating other customers like wet garbage it really bothers me and makes me feel very negative toward Amtrak. Every person to which I've suggested Amtrak as an alternative means of travel eventually reached the "never again" point thanks to their sometimes appalling service standards.

alpha3 said:
Glad it was a better ending for you, but I'm still totally mystified as to why Amtrak puts up with these miserable employees that go out of their way to make a trip as unpleasant as possible. I've also had both versions, good and bad.

I guess it's just cheaper and easier to respond to serious complaints with routine apologies and goodwill vouchers. No fuss, no muss.

como said:
Some of what you describe is just a decline in customer service everywhere, and more importantly, a decline in people being kind to each other. Of course we never know what was going on in the server's life that day, and if her interaction with you was in response to other events.

Regardless of the cause if any staff feels taking their frustrations out on customers is the answer then front line service jobs are not for them. I had horrible days when I worked front line service jobs but none of us were ever allowed to bark commands or tell anyone to take a hike and anyone who tried was dismissed.

zephyr17 · Dec 5, 2024

Devil's Advocate said:
I had horrible days when I worked front line service jobs but none of us were ever allowed to bark commands or tell anyone to take a hike and anyone who tried was dismissed.

That's probably because someone was probably there or close to admonish those who did that. And people knew it.

That OBS crews are wholly unsupervised in field for all practical purposes is at the root of a lot of these problems.

This problem is literally decades old. It is Amtrak’s biggest single problem that is wholly under its control. Outstanding service goes unrecognized and rotten apples go undisciplined. And executive management has never made any serious moves to address it.

drdumont · Dec 5, 2024

como said:
I'm sorry about the bad experience, Some of what you describe is just a decline in customer service everywhere, and more importantly, a decline in people being kind to each other. Of course we never know what was going on in the server's life that day, and if her interaction with you was in response to other events.

That's no excuse. She was paid to serve the customers, not to vent her spleen. Works the other way, too - why should I be excused for barking at a server because I'm in a bad mood?

drdumont · Dec 5, 2024

zephyr17 said:
That's probably because someone was probably there or close to admonish those who did that. And people knew it.

That OBS crews are wholly unsupervised in field for all practical purposes is at the root of a lot of these problems.

This problem is literally decades old. It is Amtrak’s biggest single problem that is wholly under its control. Outstanding service goes unrecognized and rotten apples go undisciplined. And executive management has never made any serious moves to address it.

That is where the Onboard Service Supervisor shone. Crap like this just didn't happen.

drdumont · Dec 5, 2024

Bob Dylan said:
I know this OBS person, they are notorious for how they treat passengers, and lots of the Crew Members do not want to work with such a dictator!

Several years ago a similar Food Service Grouch, after many complaints, was removed from the Texas Eagle route out of Chicago for such behaviour.

I know exactly of that person. When I commuted weekly from FTW-AUS, if I saw her I didn't bother trying to eat. I remember when she disappeared and the others expressed their joy.

I am in hope this one received a similar treatment.

Remember the Ogre of the Chicago Metropolitan Lounge? haven't seen her the last few trips...

Traveller · Dec 5, 2024

como said:
I'm sorry about the bad experience, Some of what you describe is just a decline in customer service everywhere, and more importantly, a decline in people being kind to each other. Of course we never know what was going on in the server's life that day, and if her interaction with you was in response to other events.

drdumont said:
That's no excuse. She was paid to serve the customers, not to vent her spleen. Works the other way, too - why should I be excused for barking at a server because I'm in a bad mood?

I think you are being a little unfair on como, I also found a decline in Amtrak and generally in service across the board too. Also people as a whole were being a little less kind to each other than they were a short while back
This problem is not just a US problem. it is repeated in most countries I have visited in the last 3 years, the world is not as content as it used to be.

I am sure those in the service industry face less than pleasant members of the public on a daily basis, but of course it is part of their job description. Maybe us polite and reasonable people ought to cut them a little slack, or try humour to ease a situation.

During my recent 7 week US public transport trip I met a couple of Amtrak OBS people who should not be working for Amtrak, maybe one was the Dragon you had to deal with? completely unsuitable for the job.

drdumont · Dec 5, 2024

Traveller said:
I think you are being a little unfair on como, I also found a decline in Amtrak and generally in service across the board too. Also people as a whole were being a little less kind to each other than they were a short while back
This problem is not just a US problem. it is repeated in most countries I have visited in the last 3 years, the world is not as content as it used to be.

I am sure those in the service industry face less than pleasant members of the public on a daily basis, but of course it is part of their job description. Maybe us polite and reasonable people ought to cut them a little slack, or try humour to ease a situation.

During my recent 7 week US public transport trip I met a couple of Amtrak OBS people who should not be working for Amtrak, maybe one was the Dragon you had to deal with? completely unsuitable for the job.

As I depended on such people every day for over 45 years, I made it a point to NEVER piss off or speak harshly to anyone who could influence my food, airline seat or hotel room. Fortunately, I never had to deal with the public in my line of work. And you are correct, people everywhere have become less accommodating and more rude.
In my particular episode, I took great pains not to appear churlish to that harridan, as I had observed her behavior towards another person. Not everyone has experienced community seating in the Diner, or other railroad etiquette. I did not want to be removed from the train, else she might have learned some rather startling seafaring language and possibly a floor full of former table contents. Fortunately, my better breeding prevailed.
You are indeed correct, we now live in a world of Karens and Kevins, road rage and shootings, foul language and vandalism. I grew up in a kinder, gentler era. 20 years ago, I would never have even considered carrying a sidearm. Now I never leave home without it.

Cal · Dec 5, 2024

I'm very sorry about your diner experience. Others have said the same thing, but they should probably not be in the job, despite the circumstances. I'm very glad the conductor apologized, and I hope in a future situation he won't blindly believe the LSA/SA.

fillyjonk · Dec 5, 2024

drdumont said:
The whole trip was fraught with unpleasant, unfriendly service.
The SB Eagle was at least a city block down the tracks from the platform in FTW. All the way down past the old control tower. When I asked the SCA why, I was told "Coaches are back there". He seemed miffed when I showed him my Bedroom ticket. Never got an answer to my query.

Trip kinda went downhill from there, including having the Conductor called upon me in the Diner West of SAS. I had been shown to a seat at a table occupied by two folks.
Ahhh. Old School Dining car! As I was getting settled against the window, I had laid my tablet on the seat next to me in order to get my leg brace unlocked. The DC "server" barked at me that "Others were coming and you cain't reserve no seat". OK, let it slide. As coffee and OJ was plunked down, she then brusquely told me to put away my tablet OR ELSE. I was reading my morning prayer (not out load, not moving my lips, no sound from me). When I asked (I confess, with some asperity) if I could finish my prayer, she told me "This ain't no lounger (sic) car, this here's the Diner!". As I attempted to explain, she turned and yelled down the car, calling the Conductor, that she "had a situation here". He simply told me to comply or get out. Period. End of lecture. As I was locking my leg brace, she told me to "Go on now".

Apropos of nothing whatsoever, I happen to be 77, was dressed in coat and slacks, polished shoes and yarmulke.

Returning to my room, I called AGR, was transferred to a Customer Agent and related the story. This seemed to strike a chord, they offered me a refund, which was really unnecessary. A typewritten letter arrived a week later, with an apology and a credit for a round trip of my choice in the future, in a sleeper, yet.

Don't know the back story, but Conductor later came and apologized: "I didn't know the facts...". We had a nice chat, the matter was closed.
Never saw that "server" again. I returned for lunch and dinner WITH MY TABLET, not a word was said. The new "Server" was the usual pleasant, attentive kind, and was tipped heavily. By then of course we had a new Operating crew, but I wonder what became of that shrew...
In all my 70+ years traveling by train, dating back to the 50's, I've not seen the likes of that, even during the Dark Days of the 1970s.

I've made a couple of trips since then, including the Crescent and Sunset/Eagle all the way to DAL. I napped thru FTW, don't know where they are boarding nowadays.

Our Round trip to Chicago over Thanksgiving was pleasant as well, (With the exception of the FLEX slop), The DAL staff are great, and literally INSIST we ride from the station to trainside.

I rode a WB eagle from BNL to MIN (that would then continue on to LA) on November 29 and YIKES was everyone (except my SCA) super grouchy. My SCA told me she could bring me my dinner because I'd get it faster than having to wait for a late reservation. Two hours (and being told twice by her "yeah they're really busy but I think it's in now") I walked down there just to check and got yelled at and then my order slammed down (in its carry out bag) in front of me. And getting on I got yelled at for not knowing which sleeper (they had three, two front and one back, and none of the numbers were the same as on my ticket) I was supposed to get on.

I wrote it off as "day after Thanksgiving and too many people are traveling" but if my December trip on the 18th is similarly unpleasant, I may rethink Amtrak in the future.

I just grow weary of being polite to people and being met with rudeness. Something's changed in the past 2-3 years and people just seem meaner, both people working in customer facing jobs and ordinary citizens. I try hard to remain polite and pleasant but it's hard when people are unpleasant back

Cal · Dec 5, 2024

fillyjonk said:
none of the numbers were the same as on my ticket)

Just curious, what numbers were you looking at on the car?

Sorry to hear that the crew weren't great.

AmtrakBlue · Dec 6, 2024

Cal said:
Just curious, what numbers were you looking at on the car?

Sorry to hear that the crew weren't great.

It’s not unusual for the consist numbers to be wrong on trains. This member is not a newbie so I’m sure they were referring to the consist number next to the door and not the car number at the middle of the car.

Tom C · Dec 6, 2024

While the situation shouldn’t have happened in the first place I’m somewhat encouraged to at least hear that the call to AGR helped resolve the situation. Amtrak needs to empower customer service to help resolve these on board situations through phone calls and digital channels and making it easier for the passenger to access those resources to resolve poor service situations if having on board services supervision isn’t financially feasible. Customer service needs to have a 24 hour line to on duty management who can intervene and make a phone call to the on board crew if necessary.

Maintaining service standards on a long haul route is admittedly somewhat difficult if you can’t have an on board supervisory presence. The alternative is customer initiated feedback which is basically what occurred here and making the process of accessing that relief easier and straightforward and ensuring that the crew gets the message in an expedient manner. Hopefully what happened here with this phone call is a sign that Amtrak is working to improve these processes.

JVB · Dec 6, 2024

Theyv

John Santos said:
Last time I rode the Eagle (in April to San Antonio to watch the eclipse), the southbound dining car attendant (who was also the cafe attendant in the split diner/cafe car) was very brusk with many detailed instructions about when you could use the diner and when you could use the cafe and how long you could occupy the tables, etc. but it turned out she was just overworked doing both jobs and actually allowed people to set there as long as they wanted, provided no one was waiting for a seat. Also, there were extremely onerous variations of her rules that only applied to Jim (who was in the roomette directly across the hall from me.) Jim just laughed and I think they were old friends, but people could easily have misunderstood. Returning home, the diner attendant was average, nothing special. The food was flex but there was a cook downstairs who was trying to make the best of what she was given.

The FTW stop was very long and I had plenty of time to walk back to the station, wander around and watch the other trains, etc. The Eagle was parked way down the platform for no obvious reason. (Maybe to allow a Heartland Flyer to arrive and depart and the Eagle might have been blocking the tracks if it parked closer to the station.)

I was thinking when I read your post that you might have an action under the ADA, but I think what actually happened (calling AGR and getting a credit and obviously having the customer service system actually work to improve the service, was much better and far less stressful for you than suing Amtrak or silently fuming for the rest of the trip (as I would most likely have done.)

They park the southbound train “way down the platform” to allow the TRE commuter trains to make use of both tracks underneath the platform awnings.

railiner · Dec 6, 2024

drdumont said:
Oh, for the return of the Passenger Service Attendant (I can't remember the terminology) who supervised not only the Diner, but the rest of the Attendants

The supervisor was known as “Chief of Onboard Services”.

Here’s past discussions on them…

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/the-obs-chief-reports-to-the-conductor-but.64670/

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2005741

caravanman · Dec 6, 2024

I think we all agree that there is little elbow room at the tables in the diner, so maybe your "placing your tablet on the seat" might have looked like you were "reserving" that seat to the attendant? Reading your prayer at the table was again something she would not know, it could look like you were prioritising your viewing on the internet over getting your meal consumed, etc.?
I wasn't there, I am not trying to excuse bad behaviour, but sometimes our own perceived interpretations don't always match with the others viewpoint?

drdumont · Dec 6, 2024

caravanman said:
I think we all agree that there is little elbow room at the tables in the diner, so maybe your "placing your tablet on the seat" might have looked like you were "reserving" that seat to the attendant? Reading your prayer at the table was again something she would not know, it could look like you were prioritising your viewing on the internet over getting your meal consumed, etc.?
I wasn't there, I am not trying to excuse bad behaviour, but sometimes our own perceived interpretations don't always match with the others viewpoint?

I made it crystal clear, or at least attempted to, as as I was fiddling with the latch on my brace, and getting my butt in place on the seat, I attempted to explain to this harridan, twice, then my 8" tablet was then placed in no one's space, against the window. This seemed to more raise her ire. Discussion with her was futile.
The entire point of the matter is the manner in which I was treated. I was interrupted mid sentence at least thrice as I was speaking in a normal conversational tone and volume.

I consider the matter closed

toddinde · Dec 6, 2024

drdumont said:
The whole trip was fraught with unpleasant, unfriendly service.
The SB Eagle was at least a city block down the tracks from the platform in FTW. All the way down past the old control tower. When I asked the SCA why, I was told "Coaches are back there". He seemed miffed when I showed him my Bedroom ticket. Never got an answer to my query.

Trip kinda went downhill from there, including having the Conductor called upon me in the Diner West of SAS. I had been shown to a seat at a table occupied by two folks.
Ahhh. Old School Dining car! As I was getting settled against the window, I had laid my tablet on the seat next to me in order to get my leg brace unlocked. The DC "server" barked at me that "Others were coming and you cain't reserve no seat". OK, let it slide. As coffee and OJ was plunked down, she then brusquely told me to put away my tablet OR ELSE. I was reading my morning prayer (not out load, not moving my lips, no sound from me). When I asked (I confess, with some asperity) if I could finish my prayer, she told me "This ain't no lounger (sic) car, this here's the Diner!". As I attempted to explain, she turned and yelled down the car, calling the Conductor, that she "had a situation here". He simply told me to comply or get out. Period. End of lecture. As I was locking my leg brace, she told me to "Go on now".

Apropos of nothing whatsoever, I happen to be 77, was dressed in coat and slacks, polished shoes and yarmulke.

Returning to my room, I called AGR, was transferred to a Customer Agent and related the story. This seemed to strike a chord, they offered me a refund, which was really unnecessary. A typewritten letter arrived a week later, with an apology and a credit for a round trip of my choice in the future, in a sleeper, yet.

Don't know the back story, but Conductor later came and apologized: "I didn't know the facts...". We had a nice chat, the matter was closed.
Never saw that "server" again. I returned for lunch and dinner WITH MY TABLET, not a word was said. The new "Server" was the usual pleasant, attentive kind, and was tipped heavily. By then of course we had a new Operating crew, but I wonder what became of that shrew...
In all my 70+ years traveling by train, dating back to the 50's, I've not seen the likes of that, even during the Dark Days of the 1970s.

I've made a couple of trips since then, including the Crescent and Sunset/Eagle all the way to DAL. I napped thru FTW, don't know where they are boarding nowadays.

Our Round trip to Chicago over Thanksgiving was pleasant as well, (With the exception of the FLEX slop), The DAL staff are great, and literally INSIST we ride from the station to trainside.

Wow, that’s quite something. I’ve traveled a lot on Amtrak from 1971 on, and that’s right up there with my worsts. Maybe even worse. I fly quite a bit, and airline service is spotty too though not usually to that extreme. I’m sorry that happened to you. Just basic human courtesy shouldn’t be too much to expect. I will say that it’s my opinion that serving the flex meals and running the cafe is just simply too much work for one person. It’s not realistic or sustainable. The flex meals have been a real disaster for customers and crew.

MARC Rider · Dec 6, 2024

drdumont said:
You are indeed correct, we now live in a world of Karens and Kevins, road rage and shootings, foul language and vandalism. I grew up in a kinder, gentler era. 20 years ago, I would never have even considered carrying a sidearm. Now I never leave home without it.

I agree about the negative changes that have happened in society, but surely, carrying a sidearm to brandish at rude customer service providers is not going to end well.

I live in Baltimore, the murder capital of America, yet I have seen no need to carry a weapon (and get the training needed to use it effectively.)

Fort Worth to Los Angeles bad service

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

TRAINS, AMTRAK and TESLAS! I'm colorful, not crazy

OBS Chief

Service Attendant

Conductor

TRAINS, AMTRAK and TESLAS! I'm colorful, not crazy

50+ Year Amtrak Rider

Lead Service Attendant

⠀⠀⠀

Engineer

TRAINS, AMTRAK and TESLAS! I'm colorful, not crazy

TRAINS, AMTRAK and TESLAS! I'm colorful, not crazy

TRAINS, AMTRAK and TESLAS! I'm colorful, not crazy

Service Attendant

TRAINS, AMTRAK and TESLAS! I'm colorful, not crazy

Engineer

OBS Chief

Engineer

Engineer

Train Attendant

Engineer

Engineer

TRAINS, AMTRAK and TESLAS! I'm colorful, not crazy

OBS Chief

Robber Baron

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!