California Bi-Level Fleet modernisation

av84 · Feb 17, 2025

Caltrans is proposing to overhaul the California bi-level fleet in a few years, followed by new equipment procurement in the late 2030s. They plan to make a final decision on whether to proceed with overhauls at the end of March. More details are in the linked slides, starting from Slide #5.

https://www.capitolcorridor.org/wp-...PA-Board-Meeting_Slide-Presentation_Final.pdf

GDRRiley · Feb 17, 2025

https://lossan.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=E1&ID=1270883&GUID=89F96B5E-E95B-41CC-B6EF-7AB1C8611414

We also got an updated info on the fleet plan from LOSSAN. Even if we get all 30 H2 flirts which seems short sighted we aren't going to have enough rolling stock.

We need 55+ sets and we are going to struggle to make 40. We need 20 for Surfliner, 15 for Capital Corridor, 15 for San Joaquin, 5 Coastal service.

lrh442 · Feb 19, 2025

av84 said:
Caltrans is proposing to overhaul the California bi-level fleet in a few years, followed by new equipment procurement in the late 2030s. They plan to make a final decision on whether to proceed with overhauls at the end of March. More details are in the linked slides, starting from Slide #5.

It will be very interesting to see if they decide that overhauling the fleet is technically feasible (slide 13). The Cal 1 cars are only about 15 years ~~older~~ younger than the Superliner 1s. If it can be done with the California bi-levels then it increases the likelihood that it could be done with the Superliners.

railiner · Feb 19, 2025

lrh442 said:
The Cal 1 cars are only about 15 years older than the Superliner 1s

I think you meant the CA cars are younger…

Cal · Feb 19, 2025

The equipment has been having tons of failures recently, so they're gonna need to figure something out. I'm pleasantly shocked to see that they plan to add two roundtrips next month. I didn't know, and am still skeptical, of it's feasibility.

frequentflyer · Feb 21, 2025

So, the Siemens sets are replacing the SJ BI-level equipment, and that equipment is being sent to the Pacific Surfliner routes. The FLIRTS will then replace the Siemens or operate with the Siemens...........................Who making up the equipment plan?

Can a long FLIRTS hold as many as the Bilevels?

frequentflyer · Feb 21, 2025

av84 said:
Caltrans is proposing to overhaul the California bi-level fleet in a few years, followed by new equipment procurement in the late 2030s. They plan to make a final decision on whether to proceed with overhauls at the end of March. More details are in the linked slides, starting from Slide #5.

https://www.capitolcorridor.org/wp-...PA-Board-Meeting_Slide-Presentation_Final.pdf

View attachment 39167
View attachment 39166

Looks like the Pacific Surfliner will lose its branding or livery. Makes sense for all of California's state-supported trains to be under Caltrans branding.

On Reddit, they are stating the Venture cars for California are on a 5-year backorder. I thought behind the midwest states, California was next in line.

Cal · Feb 21, 2025

frequentflyer said:
Looks like the Pacific Surfliner will lose its branding or livery. Makes sense for all of California's state-supported trains to be under Caltrans branding.

Hope not, that would be a true shame.

frequentflyer said:
On Reddit, they are stating the Venture cars for California are on a 5-year backorder. I thought behind the midwest states, California was next in line.

I thought CA has 3/7 sets in service? Or at least delivered?

GDRRiley · Feb 21, 2025

frequentflyer said:
On Reddit, they are stating the Venture cars for California are on a 5-year backorder. I thought behind the midwest states, California was next in line.

California has most of their cars but yeah any new ones past our existing 7 would be 5+more years

frequentflyer said:
So, the Siemens sets are replacing the SJ BI-level equipment, and that equipment is being sent to the Pacific Surfliner routes. The FLIRTS will then replace the Siemens or operate with the Siemens...........................Who making up the equipment plan?

The flirts are only going to hold 200-250 people and won't have cafe cars so they'll have 2 coupled together for most services....

Cal said:
Hope not, that would be a true shame.

The states looking at 5+ intercity services running within a decade, it is extra work to keep each service having its own paint. Unless there is radically different equipment requirements I wouldn't be surprised if they all merged into 1

Cal · Feb 22, 2025

GDRRiley said:
The flirts are only going to hold 200-250 people and won't have cafe cars so they'll have 2 coupled together for most services....

I don't get why anyone was like yeah three equipment types is great.

GDRRiley said:
California has most of their cars but yeah any new ones past our existing 7 would be 5+more years

The flirts are only going to hold 200-250 people and won't have cafe cars so they'll have 2 coupled together for most services....

The states looking at 5+ intercity services running within a decade, it is extra work to keep each service having its own paint. Unless there is radically different equipment requirements I wouldn't be surprised if they all merged into 1

The three current ones, CAHSR, and the coast connection?

GDRRiley · Feb 22, 2025

Cal said:
I don't get why anyone was like yeah three equipment types is great.

Well we didn't get enough surfliners and remember ventures were suppose to be bi levels.

Cal said:
The three current ones, CAHSR, and the coast connection?

Coast, and LA-Indio and I didn't count CAHSR

Cal · Feb 22, 2025

GDRRiley said:
Well we didn't get enough surfliners and remember ventures were suppose to be bi levels.

Yep, but why the FLIRTS had to come in at all....

GDRRiley said:
Well we didn't get enough surfliners and remember ventures were suppose to be bi levels.

Coast, and LA-Indio and I didn't count CAHSR

Are there any documents on LA-Indio that I can read? I know it's' been in the works, but don't know much. Isn't it set to be a Metrolink service?

GDRRiley · Feb 22, 2025

Cal said:
Yep, but why the FLIRTS had to come in at all....

Well we should be moving to MUs that is the right call give how frequent trains stop, the issue is the hydrogen power pack just isn't strong enough so we can't see a 5-6 car variant running at 110mph like a diesel, diesel+OCS/battery or diesel+battery+OCS unit could. And for services like Surfliner a KISS is more appropriate.

Cal said:
Are there any documents on LA-Indio that I can read? I know it's' been in the works, but don't know much. Isn't it set to be a Metrolink service?

https://www.rctc.org/projects/coach...-pass-corridor-rail-corridor-service-project/

Cal · Feb 22, 2025

GDRRiley said:
Well we should be moving to MUs that is the right call give how frequent trains stop, the issue is the hydrogen power pack just isn't strong enough so we can't see a 5-6 car variant running at 110mph like a diesel, diesel+OCS/battery or diesel+battery+OCS unit could. And for services like Surfliner a KISS is more appropriate.

Even then, 3+ hours in a KISS? They would need to change the interior quite a bit for it to work IMO.

GDRRiley said:
https://www.rctc.org/projects/coach...-pass-corridor-rail-corridor-service-project/

Cheers!

Edit: It looks like the last document added was in 2022... anything new?

GDRRiley · Feb 22, 2025

Cal said:
Even then, 3+ hours in a KISS? They would need to change the interior quite a bit for it to work IMO.

The shell and performance is what matters, the seating can be changed that is not a big deal. Stadlers already said for the FLIRT they worked on the rough design for a cafe before california decided no cafe cars

Mailliw · Friday at 8:02 PM

Not having cafes seems like a mistake. They should at least have a takeout counter or vending machines.

California Bi-Level Fleet modernisation

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