2 train near-collision cover up?

[PetalumaLoco]

Story here.

Amtrak and Tri-Rail trains from earlier this year.

 

[MattW]

Based on the video looking toward the front of the train, if that's from the incident, they didn't come near each other. Amtrak was stopped on track 1 we'll call it while Tri-rail was making the transition onto track 2. I don't see any close call otehr than an Amtrak stopped closer than people are used to. Then again, I'm not an expert.

 

[AlanB]

The problem is that the Amtrak train is past a stop signal and way too close to the cross over. The approaching Tri-Rail train would not have been able to tell for sure if Amtrak wasn't clear of the switch at the time he needed to hit the brakes in hope of avoiding a collision. All the Tri-Rail could tell for sure was that Amtrak was too close to the switch, so the engineer hit the brakes.

Had the switch not been set for the Tri-Rail train to cross over, things would have been closer. Additionally had the Amtrak train been probably 15 to 20 feet closer to the switch, the two trains probably would have side-swiped each other. And then of course there is the idea that had the Amtrak train gone even further, then there would have been a head on collision.

All that said, the media of course has over played this incident. If they didn't play up the closeness, then it would be a non-story and that doesn't sell ads on newscasts and in papers.

On the other hand, what I find scary is the fact that Amtrak ran the red signal in the first place. We need to know what happened there. Then there is the fact that after Tri-Rail came to a stop, Amtrak backed up and did so without obtaining permission from the dispatcher, a clear rules violation.

And finally perhaps the most serious thing about this incident is the fact that neither the Amtrak crew nor the Tri-Rail crew reported the incident. Yet another rules violation.

They only found out about this entire incident because someone who worked for the DOT in a non-rail capacity that was a passenger on the Tri-Rail train reported the incident to her bosses.

 

[George Harris]

I can see the point of the non-report by the crews. Whether it is what they should have done, or not I will stay away from. But, having in times past worked in an environment where there were severe penalties for screw-ups, I understand the desire of those involved to keep the whole thing quiet and deal with it on a more personal level. Maybe a few or more than a few very harsh words exchanged then or later. Nobody was interested in getting any unpaid time off or causing someone else that they may have considered a "brother' to get any either. They esentially took it as a no harm no foul screw up, and took an extra blood pressure pill. Probably none of those involved slept very good that night.

 

[user 1215]

They only found out about this entire incident because someone who worked for the DOT in a non-rail capacity that was a passenger on the Tri-Rail train reported the incident to her bosses.

Wonder why the conductor ushered people to the back of the train instead of pulling the emergency cord (I know, a reprive of another thread, but a valid segway)?

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Watching the news video full screen, Amtrak looks to be perhaps three feet, max, past the signal, maybe less. That's not a good thing, and a clear violation, sure, but there was no actual danger to any passengers based on the video. As has been pointed out, another 15-25 feet or so past the signal and there would have been contact, but I agree the media must have been having a slow day and felt they needed to give all commuters and Amtrak riders some extra heartburn and sell some more commercial ads, and manufacturing an emergency where there wasn't one was a good way to increase their ratings. Or, just as likely, the reporter and her supervisors really didn't have a clue about the subject matter. For them, two trains that far apart are a dire emergency, but slamming on the brakes on I-95 in South Florida and missing the car in front of you by 1/4 of an inch is just a fact of life, repeated thousands of times each day there, and therefore not newsworthy. No blood on the highway = not a problem, not newsworthy...

 

[TVRM610]

They only found out about this entire incident because someone who worked for the DOT in a non-rail capacity that was a passenger on the Tri-Rail train reported the incident to her bosses.

Wonder why the conductor ushered people to the back of the train instead of pulling the emergency cord (I know, a reprive of another thread, but a valid segway)?

The train had gone into emergency which is most likely what prompted the conductor to yell. If you have been on trains alot and been through the train going into emergency, or just dumping air for that matter (which conductors hear multiple times a day) you know that it makes a very unique sound. One time I was in the diner on the Crescent when we went into emergency I heard the brakes go and I shouted "hold on" and one of the waitresses looked up from her pad and started shouting the same thing right after me. So kinda normal reaction from train crew. (BTW on the Crescent we just hit a bear, no major damage or delays).

In the end, these guys should have at least told the dispatcher what was going on... and yes it should concern us that Amtrak ran a red signal at all even though they were only a few feet past a few feet more could have meant serious problems.

 

[cpamtfan]

They only found out about this entire incident because someone who worked for the DOT in a non-rail capacity that was a passenger on the Tri-Rail train reported the incident to her bosses.

Wonder why the conductor ushered people to the back of the train instead of pulling the emergency cord (I know, a reprive of another thread, but a valid segway)?

The train had gone into emergency which is most likely what prompted the conductor to yell. If you have been on trains alot and been through the train going into emergency, or just dumping air for that matter (which conductors hear multiple times a day) you know that it makes a very unique sound. One time I was in the diner on the Crescent when we went into emergency I heard the brakes go and I shouted "hold on" and one of the waitresses looked up from her pad and started shouting the same thing right after me. So kinda normal reaction from train crew. (BTW on the Crescent we just hit a bear, no major damage or delays).

In the end, these guys should have at least told the dispatcher what was going on... and yes it should concern us that Amtrak ran a red signal at all even though they were only a few feet past a few feet more could have meant serious problems.

You hit a bear?!? Don't they know not t trespass on the railroad tracks .

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[spacecadet]

As has been pointed out, another 15-25 feet or so past the signal and there would have been contact, but I agree the media must have been having a slow day and felt they needed to give all commuters and Amtrak riders some extra heartburn and sell some more commercial ads, and manufacturing an emergency where there wasn't one was a good way to increase their ratings.

And it's Fox, and a local news station where probably nothing much happens most of the time. But this is one reason why nobody trusts the media anymore. They've ratcheted up the fear factor until it's almost become a joke.

Anything can become an accident *if* various things happened differently. It's like saying "if that plane had landed 15-20 feet to the left of the runway, it would have crashed". Well sure, but it didn't - it landed in the middle of the runway like every other plane that landed that day and every other day. The fact that it *could* have crashed if it landed 15-20 feet away is irrelevant. Ditto with this train.

Yeah it was a violation, but in the end it did not affect anything, nor could it really have affected anything. Both trains seem to have been going at a pretty slow speed, the Amtrak train was stopped and the Tri-Link train stopped well short of the Amtrak train (even if they'd been on the same track).

I also love how in part of the report they say the two trains came within "feet of each other". I've got news for these people: trains come within feet of each other thousands of times every day! (This is also akin to saying flying really low is dangerous... when your plane is landing. It's actually kind of necessary!)

Next you'll see a news report about how single track operations are a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[George Harris]

Next you'll see a news report about how single track operations are a disaster waiting to happen.

Already happened. I think it was Dianne Feinstein or one of the other equally genius California politicians that said she was Shocked, simply shocked that passenger trains and freight trains both ran on single track railroads.

 

[AlanB]

They only found out about this entire incident because someone who worked for the DOT in a non-rail capacity that was a passenger on the Tri-Rail train reported the incident to her bosses.

Wonder why the conductor ushered people to the back of the train instead of pulling the emergency cord (I know, a reprive of another thread, but a valid segway)?

Because pulling the emergency cord would have been redundant and achieved absolutely nothing, except maybe some personal satisfaction for the conductor. The train was already in emergency because the engineer had hit the button. You can't put a train into double emergency. The train won't stop any faster because the emergency cord gets pulled in two, three, or more places. Once the air has been dumped, that’s it there is nothing left to do, other than perhaps running to the rear, but ride it out and let physics rule.

And while as other's have mentioned that the crews hear emergency brake applications all the time, I rather doubt that had anything to do with the conductor's frantic motions. It's far more likely that the engineer radioed the conductor and said "holy ****, we're going to crash". Hence the conductor running up the stairs frantically trying to get people to move rapidly to the rear of the car.

If the conductor did that every time a train went into emergency, there would be a lot of angry passengers.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

They only found out about this entire incident because someone who worked for the DOT in a non-rail capacity that was a passenger on the Tri-Rail train reported the incident to her bosses.

Wonder why the conductor ushered people to the back of the train instead of pulling the emergency cord (I know, a reprive of another thread, but a valid segway)?

Even though the other poster answered this for you, I'll add a little to it. This is what you should expect from your train crew (especially the operating crew). Her engineer puts the train into emergency because they see a red signal with a train on their track (or so it appears)! Most likely her engineer radioed that there was a train in the way or something. Most of the time you cannot tell until you get closer of how the switches are lined up or exactly where an oncoming train has actually stopped (if you can tell whether they had stopped yet). As I reviewed the video, the Amtrak engineer hadn't extinguished or dimmed his headlight ( I am sure that was the last thing he was thinking about at the moment)!

I was on a hot shot intermodal train (piggyback and stack containers) one night, and we got by a red signal. The signal was clear but it dropped on us shortly before we passed it, and we were running on a previous clear signal! A signal maintainer just up the road was working in a wayside signal electronics box, (I think the signal maintainer was replacing a circuitry card or some thing similar), and apparently was unaware the dispatcher had lined up a Northbound train. We got stopped, the dispatcher did his thing, The signal maintainer finished up (though he probably heard from his supervisor the next day), and the railroad did their little investigation (to be sure all was the way we said it was and to find the most likely cause). But still a huge lump forms in your throat and the butterflies procreate in your stomach when you pass a red without permission!

OBS gone freight...

darn my spelling is terrible today... can't even spell my screen name right!!! (OBS gone fright) LOL