2019 Winter Park Ski Train

[Anthony V]

Back Trolling it seems.

The ski train is in the last year of a multi year contract.

So how are they going to staff the lounge?

Where the food going to be loaded, and off loaded after the trip.  How is Amtrak going account of the supplies and money.  No infrastructure at Denver for this type of service.  Sure it can be done.  But the devil is in the details.  It’s not like the detour of the LSL this summer, this is a weekend train and not a 7 days a week operation.

I am sure member “Seaboard” could do it, but Amtrak is a bit more of a Union operation.

When did the LSL detour this summer and what route did the detour take?

 

[cpotisch]

When did the LSL detour this summer and what route did the detour take?

The New York section was terminated, so it only ran to Boston. It’s not really a “detour” per se, but that’s what he’s talking about.

 

[John Santos]

The New York section was terminated, so it only ran to Boston. It’s not really a “detour” per se, but that’s what he’s talking about.

Previously (in 2016, IIRC), while they were working on the west side tracks, the New York section followed a different route and terminated at Grand Central instead of Penn station.  The other Empire service, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, etc. trains (those that follow the Hudson River to Albany) did the same.  This past summer (2018), while they were rebuilding the Spuyten Duyvil Bridge, the other trains again used GCT, but the LSL New York section was completely eliminated.

 

[cpotisch]

Previously (in 2016, IIRC), while they were working on the west side tracks, the New York section followed a different route and terminated at Grand Central instead of Penn station.  The other Empire service, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, etc. trains (those that follow the Hudson River to Albany) did the same.  This past summer (2018), while they were rebuilding the Spuyten Duyvil Bridge, the other trains again used GCT, but the LSL New York section was completely eliminated.

Nope, completely incorrect. Not a single Amtrak train served Grand Central in 2016. In the summer of 2017, certain Empire Service trains served GCT, and this summer (2018) all Empire Corridor trains except the LSL served GCT. The Lake Shore Limited has never in recent years years served Grand Central, mainly due to its inaccessibility from Sunnyside Yard, where the train is turned, serviced, stocked, etc.

 

[John Santos]

Nope, completely incorrect. Not a single Amtrak train served Grand Central in 2016. In the summer of 2017, certain Empire Service trains served GCT, and this summer (2018) all Empire Corridor trains except the LSL served GCT. The Lake Shore Limited has never in recent years years served Grand Central, mainly due to its inaccessibility from Sunnyside Yard, where the train is turned, serviced, stocked, etc.

So, I had the year (which I qualified with "IIRC") wrong, which made the entire post incorrect?  I rode the Boston section of the LSL to/from Chicago in August 2017, among other times.  Once when I took it (possibly this 2017 trip, possibly earlier), the New York section was an entirely separate train.  I'm sure there was no sleeper service and maybe no dining car, just coaches on the separate NYC train.  The NY passengers had to transfer across the platform at Albany to the Boston/Chicago section.  They may have added and dropped the normal NY sleepers and coaches to the Boston section at Albany.  Those cars presumably stayed overnight in Albany and returned to Chicago the next day (or maybe even the same night if the scheduling worked.)  Since there were only coaches to be turned around at GCT, the lack of access to Sunnyside wouldn't have mattered.

I am certain this train was listed on the schedule as the LSL and made the various stops along the Hudson River at or close to the normal LSL schedule.  For the NYC passengers, the differences were 1) they used GCT instead of NYP, 2) If they booked a sleeper, they had to ride coach to Albany before they could board their sleeper car, and 3) they had to physically leave the train and board another train in Albany.  This situation was in effect for several months.

On a previous occasion, the opposite happened.  There was normal 48/49 service to and from NYP, but the Boston section was coach only.  If you booked a sleeper from Boston, you got Business class to/from Albany, where you transferred to a sleeper.  The reason was the platforms and tracks in ALB were under construction and they didn't have room for the entire train or couldn't access tracks needed to split (eastbound) or join the sections (westbound), I'm not sure of the reason, but they were basically running the Boston section as a coach (plus cafe/BC car) shuttle.  I booked the LSL BOS-CHI-BOS, but when I selected the tickets, my only choices were coach all the way or coach to ALB, sleeper ALB->CHI and the same back.  This was the 2nd or 3rd time I rode the LSL, maybe in 2015 or 2016. 

It was because of this previous experience that I was surprised last summer that they cancelled the New York section entirely rather than just do what they had done previously and just run it as a coach shuttle GCT<->ALB.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Back to the topic. Ski train equipment is heading out to Denver today. CZ will have 17 cars leaving Chicago.

 

[cpotisch]

Previously (in 2016, IIRC), while they were working on the west side tracks, the New York section followed a different route and terminated at Grand Central instead of Penn station.  The other Empire service, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, etc. trains (those that follow the Hudson River to Albany) did the same.  This past summer (2018), while they were rebuilding the Spuyten Duyvil Bridge, the other trains again used GCT, but the LSL New York section was completely eliminated.

Nope, completely incorrect. Not a single Amtrak train served Grand Central in 2016. In the summer of 2017, certain Empire Service trains served GCT, and this summer (2018) all Empire Corridor trains except the LSL served GCT. The Lake Shore Limited has never in recent years years served Grand Central, mainly due to its inaccessibility from Sunnyside Yard, where the train is turned, serviced, stocked, etc.

So, I had the year (which I qualified with "IIRC") wrong, which made the entire post incorrect?  I rode the Boston section of the LSL to/from Chicago in August 2017, among other times.  Once when I took it (possibly this 2017 trip, possibly earlier), the New York section was an entirely separate train.  I'm sure there was no sleeper service and maybe no dining car, just coaches on the separate NYC train.  The NY passengers had to transfer across the platform at Albany to the Boston/Chicago section.  They may have added and dropped the normal NY sleepers and coaches to the Boston section at Albany.  Those cars presumably stayed overnight in Albany and returned to Chicago the next day (or maybe even the same night if the scheduling worked.)  Since there were only coaches to be turned around at GCT, the lack of access to Sunnyside wouldn't have mattered.

I am certain this train was listed on the schedule as the LSL and made the various stops along the Hudson River at or close to the normal LSL schedule.  For the NYC passengers, the differences were 1) they used GCT instead of NYP, 2) If they booked a sleeper, they had to ride coach to Albany before they could board their sleeper car, and 3) they had to physically leave the train and board another train in Albany.  This situation was in effect for several months.

On a previous occasion, the opposite happened.  There was normal 48/49 service to and from NYP, but the Boston section was coach only.  If you booked a sleeper from Boston, you got Business class to/from Albany, where you transferred to a sleeper.  The reason was the platforms and tracks in ALB were under construction and they didn't have room for the entire train or couldn't access tracks needed to split (eastbound) or join the sections (westbound), I'm not sure of the reason, but they were basically running the Boston section as a coach (plus cafe/BC car) shuttle.  I booked the LSL BOS-CHI-BOS, but when I selected the tickets, my only choices were coach all the way or coach to ALB, sleeper ALB->CHI and the same back.  This was the 2nd or 3rd time I rode the LSL, maybe in 2015 or 2016. 

It was because of this previous experience that I was surprised last summer that they cancelled the New York section entirely rather than just do what they had done previously and just run it as a coach shuttle GCT<->ALB.

The LSL has never in recent years served GCT, and there was no reroute of ANY routes to GCT in 2016. And just to make sure, I have scoured the web and still can't find a single mention of the New York section of the LSL in recent years ever being a separate GCT-ALB train. The following is the only part in your post that you got right:

This past summer (2018), while they were rebuilding the Spuyten Duyvil Bridge, the other trains again used GCT, but the LSL New York section was completely eliminated.

So fine, your post was merely mostly incorrect, not completely incorrect.

But as Blue said/implied, this is getting pretty off-topic, so if you want to discuss it more, shoot me a PM.

 

[Thirdrail7]

It doesn't seem as though the 406 is making the trip this year.

 

[dgvrengineer]

Back to the topic. Ski train equipment is heading out to Denver today. CZ will have 17 cars leaving Chicago.

Watched it on the Galesburg RailCam. Very impressive train. 4 locomotives, 7 cars for the Ski Train and 9 cars for the CZ.

 

[Agent]

I caught Amtrak #5(02) running almost on time at Agency, Iowa tonight with four forward-facing engines and the cars for the Winter Park Express.  The Zephyr also met a BNSF coal train just west of town with a little bit of relevant radio chatter between the crews.

 

[Agent]

Here's a video by Mike Jensen 80701 of the train at the Fort Morgan, Colorado station this morning.  At the end, there's radio chatter from the crew discussing what they'll do the the ski train at Denver.  Apparently there was a derailment at Denver, but the report is that it would be clear by the time #5 got there.

 

[keelhauled]

The trainset has arrived in Denver. 

 

[cpotisch]

View attachment 11914

The trainset has arrived in Denver. 

Wait, is that a high level platform on one side, but low level on the other side (where the train is)?

 

[cpotisch]

On 1/3/2019 at 10:25 AM, Agent said:

Here's a video by Mike Jensen 80701 of the train at the Fort Morgan, Colorado station this morning.  At the end, there's radio chatter from the crew discussing what they'll do the the ski train at Denver.  Apparently there was a derailment at Denver, but the report is that it would be clear by the time #5 got there.

So if the Ski Train is sometimes a part of the CZ, does that mean that the Winter Park station is on the CZ's route? And did they have to lengthen the CZ's schedule much? I imagine that the time it takes to pull in, come to a stop, and then detach the front half of the train, must be significant.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

So if the Ski Train is sometimes a part of the CZ, does that mean that the Winter Park station is on the CZ's route? And did they have to lengthen the CZ's schedule much? I imagine that the time it takes to pull in, come to a stop, and then detach the front half of the train, must be significant.

This was a positioning move. The Ski Train is a separate train that runs between Denver & Winter Park during the winter.

 

[keelhauled]

Wait, is that a high level platform on one side, but low level on the other side (where the train is)?

The tracks are on different grades, so a flat platform can access Superliner equipment on one side and RTD’s EMUs on the other. Tracks 4 and 5 are for Amtrak, without catenary and raised trackbeds, while tracks 1-3 and 6-8 are electrified for RTD. Right now track 1 is used for the airport service and track 8 for the Westminster trains (A and B lines). Supposedly the G line to Wheat Ridge will open soon, and will use track 7; the signage is already installed. It is a very well-planned design, both the tracks and station building, and hopefully will serve Denver well as the RTD continues to expand the system in the coming years. 

So if the Ski Train is sometimes a part of the CZ, does that mean that the Winter Park station is on the CZ's route? And did they have to lengthen the CZ's schedule much? I imagine that the time it takes to pull in, come to a stop, and then detach the front half of the train, must be significant.

The CZ was just the vessel to get the ski train set out to Denver. They are seperate trains. The Winter Park station is on the CZ’s route, but served only by the ski train; the CZ stops in the town of Fraser a few miles west. 5 seems to have lost about 40 minutes at Denver for splitting the train, but that is the only time its schedule will be affected until it’s time to bring the ski train set back east in the spring. 

 

[cpotisch]

20 minutes ago, cpotisch said:
So if the Ski Train is sometimes a part of the CZ, does that mean that the Winter Park station is on the CZ's route? And did they have to lengthen the CZ's schedule much? I imagine that the time it takes to pull in, come to a stop, and then detach the front half of the train, must be significant.

This was a positioning move. The Ski Train is a separate train that runs between Denver & Winter Park during the winter.

Ah, thank you. I thought he was implying that Ski Train departures which line up with the CZ are incorporated into it. This makes more sense.

 

[Chas]

A news report from Channel 9 Denver on the Winter Park ski train lounge, with video.

 

[frequentflyer]

On 1/3/2019 at 9:25 AM, Agent said:

Here's a video by Mike Jensen 80701 of the train at the Fort Morgan, Colorado station this morning.  At the end, there's radio chatter from the crew discussing what they'll do the the ski train at Denver.  Apparently there was a derailment at Denver, but the report is that it would be clear by the time #5 got there.

Is the woman voice the engineer?

 

[railiner]

A news report from Channel 9 Denver on the Winter Park ski train lounge, with video.

Great link...thanks for posting it....and tell that newsman that he'd "better not quit his 'day' job"....

 

[Triley]

True, but Cup Noodles wouldn’t. And really how hard is it to just use the freezer in that SSL? They find it to be worth it on basically every other train.

You know the train is only 2 hours each way, right? It doesn't need anything more than basic snacks. I would be willing to bet anything that they sell more alcohol than anything.

Also, since there has to be an answer for everything, the pizzas (even if kept frozen) are dated as if they are going to a refrigerator once they leave Aramark. That brings the shelf life to something like 3-5 days. The pastries will probably be sent in on the Zephyr each week, but I would be willing to bet that the car was sent out with a bunch of supplies that can keep the car stocked for at least a month (again, it's very little variety, and the train is only 2 hours each way). Additional items that don't need to be kept in monitored refrigeration could be sent on the Zephyr and be dropped off to the train or station personnel until the other LSA comes in.

No crew base would be set up. They would either deadhead someone from Chicago or LA, either by train or flight.

 

[Agent]

Video from yesterday by Michael DeMarco showing the first Winter Park Express of the year departing the resort on time and entering the Moffat Tunnel.

 

[Agent]

Here's a couple more local news video reports on the return of the ski train.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Is the woman voice the engineer?

Yes.

Great link...thanks for posting it....and tell that newsman that he'd "better not quit his 'day' job"....

Should we start another tipping etiquette thread?

Wait, is that SarahZ heading this way....with a  blunt object??

 

[Seaboard92]

I'm willing to bet alcohol is the number one seller on that trip. I remember on an excursion I worked in Europe (yes I work on both continents) they were selling 1 euro beers. And at the end of the all day trip the amount of empty bottles was unbelievable. Of course we'd were three hours late too so they had extra time to drink. But where available people go for it.