$66 billion for Amtrak

[jis]

When I read this news a few minutes ago, I was surprised. I thought that the House would do nothing before it went into recess before its week break. Certainly glad that the Bill did pass! And very pleased that some Republican members supported the Bill! (I wonder if my Republican member of Congress did. I'd be shocked if he did.)

Yes, 13 Republicans supported and 6 Democrats opposed. So in a manner of speaking it was bipartisan in the House too. Frankly if they had failed to pass this this week, they'd have had hell to pay for down the line, at least in the purple states, and apparently possibly in some blue states too.

 

[Dakota 400]

Yes, 13 Republicans supported and 6 Democrats opposed. So in a manner of speaking it was bipartisan in the House too. Frankly if they had failed to pass this this week, they'd have had hell to pay for down the line, at least in the purple states, and apparently possibly in some blue states too.

And, maybe in at least two red states as well. Senator McConnell is going to get his bridge across the Ohio River between Northern Kentucky and Cincinnati that has been a source of irritation for those who live in that area for several years. Failure of this Bill might also have had some impact on Ohio's Senate race in 2022. The Cincinnati area has started to lean "blue".

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

What are the optics going to be if management announces service reductions back to 3x a week within days of the bill passing. I’m mixed. Obviously it would be disastrious with the holidays approaching. On the flip side if they reduce service now it’s admitting to the world (and all elected officials) they are in over their head and have no business administering the 66 billion we are about to trust them with. My hope would be Buttigieg would instigate a Board and management shake up.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

What are the optics going to be if management announces service reductions back to 3x a week within days of the bill passing. I’m mixed. Obviously it would be disastrious with the holidays approaching. On the flip side if they reduce service now it’s admitting to the world (and all elected officials) they are in over their head and have no business administering the 66 billion we are about to trust them with. My hope would be Buttigieg would instigate a Board and management shake up.

If you don't have enough engineers and conductor's qualified on routes to run trains 7 days a week, what to you suggest they do?

 

[Andrew]

How much would this bill fund for Amtrak for FY 2022?

And I know that it appropriates $8 billion over 5 years to the CIG program--which is critical for Gateway. But, is this $8 billion in addition to annual CIG funding?

 

[jis]

What are the optics going to be if management announces service reductions back to 3x a week within days of the bill passing. I’m mixed. Obviously it would be disastrious with the holidays approaching. On the flip side if they reduce service now it’s admitting to the world (and all elected officials) they are in over their head and have no business administering the 66 billion we are about to trust them with. My hope would be Buttigieg would instigate a Board and management shake up.

Do you actually have a solution to propose, or you just want to carp along as usual?

Besides they are not really getting all of the $66 Billion immediately anyway, so even that is misleading. There will be multiple Amtrak management teams involved in doing stuff with the $66 Billion, if that amount is actually appropriated over the years.

Long term of course the Board needs to be restructured to align with the new Law and an Amtrak management shakeup is almost always a good idea when it is found to be complacent or not responding to customer desires, but none of that will fix the current problem of labor shortage which is not at all unique to Amtrak. Most airlines are also to an extent in the same soup, the more conservative ones a less so than the more aggressive ones as far as sharp scheduling goes.

Frankly I would be quite pleasantly surprised if Buttgieg does anything drastically different in the short run than what he is doing about Amtrak now. I don't really expect it. He is likely way more worried about freight transportation bottlenecks as part of the supply chain issues at present than Amtrak.

 

[George Harris]

Yes - finally. It is put up or shut up time for Amtrak. I for one, am rooting for them to have their act together.

And on this forum – I hope we all remember that despite the fact that the majority of the funds are geared for Corridor type routes – that can do nothing but help long-distance.

I would say you need to rethink this last sentence. Experience so far says "funds are geared for Corridor type routes WHICH WILL DO NOTHING TO help long-distance" services.

 

[nti1094]

It’s time for Amtrak to get it together and get some good intelligent people on its board who represent every party including passengers. They can either completely transform the company into something wonderful that provides service to millions of additional Americans, or squander the money on wasteful endless planning and incremental changes that mean nothing.

 

[nti1094]

I would say you need to rethink this last sentence. Experience so far says "funds are geared for Corridor type routes WHICH WILL DO NOTHING TO help long-distance" services.

I’m not so sure I agree… even if opening up the long distance trains to millions of additional potential customers via connections to and from those trains they would have to help. Besides as these corridors open up they make trains a viable possibility for people and keep
the train in their minds as a mode of transport.

 

[sttom]

Doesn't this funding still require state cooperation and operation funds? If that is still the case, I'm dubious that this will live up to the hype. We already tried the state thing 10 years ago.

 

[PaTrainFan]

Doesn't this funding still require state cooperation and operation funds? If that is still the case, I'm dubious that this will live up to the hype. We already tried the state thing 10 years ago.

There will be successes and failures. There will be enormous pressure on Red states to accept the incentives and when these are turned down they can explain it away. likely most Blue, along with Purple, states, will enthisiastically accept. Of course, with many corridors, multiple state cooperation will be necessary.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

It’s time for Amtrak to get it together and get some good intelligent people on its board who represent every party including passengers. They can either completely transform the company into something wonderful that provides service to millions of additional Americans, or squander the money on wasteful endless planning and incremental changes that mean nothing.

Sec. 22202. Composition of Amtrak’s Board of Directors: Revises the composition of Amtrak’s Board of Directors to ensure representation across the Amtrak network (two from NEC states, two from LDR states, and two from State-supported states), and requires annual engagement with the disability community, Amtrak employees and the general public.

https://www.railpassengers.org/happ...n-the-senates-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill/

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I would say you need to rethink this last sentence. Experience so far says "funds are geared for Corridor type routes WHICH WILL DO NOTHING TO help long-distance" services.

Sec. 22201. Amtrak Findings, Mission, and Goals: Amends Amtrak’s mission and goals to emphasize its role in providing service to rural communities, recognize the importance of long-distance routes, and encourage Amtrak to maximize the benefits of Federal investment (as opposed to minimizing costs).

https://www.railpassengers.org/happ...n-the-senates-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill/

 

[jis]

Here straight from the horse's mouth, how that money is likely to be used... so that we can stop arguing with the wind and random assumptions...

https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-jo...-billion/1a739c83-6a0d-4949-97ce-24a0a2d53418

 

[PaTrainFan]

Here straight from the horse's mouth, how that money is likely to be used... so that we can stop arguing with the wind and random assumptions...

https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-jo...-billion/1a739c83-6a0d-4949-97ce-24a0a2d53418

Still a very general and few details. Will be interesting to see how all this plays out. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details. $66 billion is a lot of money. Sure less than the $80 billion Biden wanted, but still a chunck of change. Can't wait to see how it all breaks down. I'm also eager to see how the money will go on the highway system, not just intercity rail and transit. I'm sure we're a ways from knowing any of this.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

the 66 billion is not just Amtrak, it is also not operations but capital improvements.
it is also a 5 year appropriations bill, take it from there.

 

[user 14106]

Breakdown of intercity passenger rail funding. Courtesy rail passengers association.

 

[neroden]

When I read this news a few minutes ago, I was surprised. I thought that the House would do nothing before it went into recess before its week break. Certainly glad that the Bill did pass! And very pleased that some Republican members supported the Bill! (I wonder if my Republican member of Congress did. I'd be shocked if he did.)

The politics of this were quite complicated, but involved the so-called centrists in the House making signed promises to pass the reconciliation bill if it met a particular CBO score (which it will) and an agreement on how to adjust it if it didn't, ***and*** Biden saying he believes he has a reconciliation bill which can get through Manchin and Sinema (though I don't know if that will turn out to be true).

There will be political hell to pay if the major budget reconciliation bill doesn't pass. The infrastructure bill... well, I've seen them pass and I've seen them fail, and it doesn't have a political effect the way the budget failing does. The political effect comes a year down the road: once the infrastructure funding is actually showing up in jobsites, *then* it starts getting some positive response. Failing to pass the budget is just *embarassing* -- it looks incompetent.

Most people these days have not studied the National Recovery Administration. It was FDR's first attempt at the New Deal. The bill passed, but it didn't *work* -- things simply didn't get implemented effectively -- and this was a huge drag on FDR's popularity, much bigger politically than the previous threats of the bill not passing or even the bills being struck down by the Supreme Court. He ended up doing a "second try" with a bunch of smaller agencies which was far more effective (many of those agencies are still with us today). So implementation is key.

I wish I could trust Amtrak to implement its part effectively, but they can't even publish timetables, so? Well, I'll keep advocating.

 

[Gemuser]

Any bill that passes both houses of Congress automatically becomes law ten days after passage even without the President‘s signature, unless Congress is out of session when the tenth day comes up, which it isn’t going to be. Even if they want to sit on it in this way for symbolic purposes, and even if those other bills stall and don’t get done, this one will still be law as of November 15 or 16.

How long has this been the case? Seems a VERY big hole in my American Politics class, which it could be or if it's less than 50 years old that could also explain it.

 

[ehbowen]

How long has this been the case?

Since 1789.

Seems a VERY big hole in my American Politics class, which it could be or if it's less than 50 years old that could also explain it.

Well, it wasn't covered by Schoolhouse Rock...

 

[John819]

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer here, but getting the funds is only the start. Anything that Amtrak does will require endless bureaucracy, environmental reviews (bring on the NIMBYs and BANANAS), and lots of other process before anything can get done (except perhaps purchasing new rolling stock).

 

[joelkfla]

BANANAS

= "build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything"

 

[ehbowen]

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer here, but getting the funds is only the start. Anything that Amtrak does will require endless bureaucracy, environmental reviews (bring on the NIMBYs and BANANAS), and lots of other process before anything can get done (except perhaps purchasing new rolling stock).

= "build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything"

How the world has changed...and not for the better. When the New York Central's line up the Hudson River was being surveyed the millionaires (billionaires by today's standards) with estates and farmers with land along the river willingly ceded right-of-way from their properties with very little complaint, because they knew that the railroad was an improvement for the betterment of all. Nowadays..."You want twenty feet by a hundred forty feet along my back fence line, a hundred and twenty feet from my house which is on the tax rolls for a million five, and you'll build a sound-insulating wall and landscape it? Let's see, I think we need to start at ten million dollars here...."

 

[CraigInNC]

I, like most I hope, are looking forward to these infrastructure plans especially Amtrak. I realize the US will never have the kind of rail system that other countries have. Outside of the NEC, the country is just simply too big to expect people to depend on rail to the extent they do elsewhere. With that being said we leave a lot on the table by not investing in comprehensive transportation. I do not think this is news to anybody, at least not in a forum like this. I listened to a Republican female Congressperson from NY try to explain to her constituents why she voted for the infrastructure bill and the difference between it and the social bill the Democrats want passed. It was incredible that people 1) Failed to understand the difference; 2) Chose not to understand the difference; 3) Are still out for blood despite many of them expressing support for many if not most of the projects. It is a sad state of affairs these days especially to a fairly younger person like myself who has more than half of my life yet to live.

As far as what I see for Amtrak, long term changes will take time, new routes/stations, etc. Especially when having to coordinate with the freight lines. I expect and hope onboard and current service to improve fairly quickly as the money starts to flow. They are already moving towards resuming Traditional Dining in the East, frequency of service, the upgraded cars. A lot of maintenance will be done I presume and I wouldn't be surprised if the old stock Viewliner Is and the AmCans get refurbished. It will be exciting to see. Here in North Carolina, Charlotte is getting a new Gateway Station that will be inter-modal: Charlotte's Gateway District | Transportation Development in Uptown Charlotte As an older millennial I share preferences that span both new and traditional. I still like to sit down to a good meal with a table cloth but appreciate the improvements made to accommodate the 21st century lifestyles. Trains (even outside the NEC) are not just for retired folks or folks on holiday with a lot of time on their hands.

 

[Barb Stout]

Breakdown of intercity passenger rail funding. Courtesy rail passengers association.

The attached chart does not line up with Flynn's statement in the previous article (WSJ) where he indicated about 30 billion of the 66 billion would be for the NEC. Is this because of a different pot distribution?