7 1/2 Hour Late #6

[Bruce-C]

Yesterday's #6 lost another 11 hours between GSC and GRA, bringing it to over 12 1/2 hrs. late. Anybody know what happened??

 

[DEN Trails & Rails]

8:30 am MDT

RE: CZ # 6

This train arrived in Denver at 8 am today, over 13 hours late...

I am also puzzled why this train got so late, between Glenwood Springs, CO. and Granby, CO. ?

Westbound # 5 is not doing much better... it is running 7.5 hours late coming into Denver today.

Peter

 

[Bruce-C]

Peter

I just seen a blurb on TV news about rain storms and hail in the Denver area. Don't know if that was just in the flatland or if it was the cause or not.

Did you get heavy weather in Boulder??

 

[NY Penn]

Chances are that the two #6's (the 13h late one and the next one) will arrive in CHI together.

Amtrak should start storing extra consists in CHI in case of extra-late trains like this one. It's clear that this consist will not turn around in time.

 

[DEN Trails & Rails]

The Denver area has had lots of rain this past week, afternoon and evening thunderstorms.

Parts of metro Denver have had over 5 inches of rain in July, alone.

That is a lot for this part of the country...

Don't know if that caused any of the delays... ?

Tend to doubt it.

Peter

Peter

I just seen a blurb on TV news about rain storms and hail in the Denver area. Don't know if that was just in the flatland or if it was the cause or not.

Did you get heavy weather in Boulder??

 

[Steve4031]

Probably a rock slide in one of the canyons.

 

[NY Penn]

Update: the train is now 23 hours and 10 minutes late!

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak should start storing extra consists in CHI in case of extra-late trains like this one. It's clear that this consist will not turn around in time.

Amtrak doesn't have enough cars to store extra consists in Chicago. Besides, just have cars that cost a couple of million sitting around doing nothing is a waste. One needs to earn revenue to justify buying the cars in the first place.

 

[Bruce-C]

Amtrak should start storing extra consists in CHI in case of extra-late trains like this one. It's clear that this consist will not turn around in time.

Amtrak doesn't have enough cars to store extra consists in Chicago. Besides, just have cars that cost a couple of million sitting around doing nothing is a waste. One needs to earn revenue to justify buying the cars in the first place.

Trainsets from the EB being halted have been sitting in Chicago or the west for 3-4 weeks now. Amtrak has to do something.

 

[PRR 60]

The good news: #6 arrived Naperville at 1:46pm, only 3 minutes behind the scheduled arrival time of 1:43pm.

The bad news: it was due at 1:43pm yesterday! It's now 24 hours and 3 minutes late.

Yikes!

 

[Anderson]

Ah, crap. Well, this could be a fun trip home next week.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Being that late, I'm assuming Amtrak had to keep everybody fed on their dime. Was it emergency rations or did they restock the Diner along the way?

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak should start storing extra consists in CHI in case of extra-late trains like this one. It's clear that this consist will not turn around in time.

Amtrak doesn't have enough cars to store extra consists in Chicago. Besides, just have cars that cost a couple of million sitting around doing nothing is a waste. One needs to earn revenue to justify buying the cars in the first place.

Trainsets from the EB being halted have been sitting in Chicago or the west for 3-4 weeks now. Amtrak has to do something.

Trainsets that have been sitting around for the last several weeks but are going back into service this weekend are of no help to a brand new problem on the CZ.

As for Amtrak doing something, they'll do what they would normally do in a case like this, cobble together some loose cars sitting in the yard (maybe rush a few more out of the shop) and put together a consist to fill in the gap.

None of that however has anything to do with the suggestion that Amtrak keep several million of dollars of equipment just sitting around in a yard rotting & rusting on the off chance that they might need an extra consist one day because a train gets delayed enroute. That is a wasteful practice and not one that should be condoned by anyone who wants Amtrak to continue.

I mean other than if perhaps you had money to burn on a show car, would you buy a car and then never drive it? And that's just you personally. No company would ever buy a truck and then just leave it sitting around in case the other delivery truck they own breaks down. This is a costly and impractical thing to do. One doesn't make money if one has valuable assets just sitting around doing nothing but waiting for another asset to fail.

 

[NY Penn]

Trainsets from the EB being halted have been sitting in Chicago or the west for 3-4 weeks now. Amtrak has to do something.

Trainsets that have been sitting around for the last several weeks but are going back into service this weekend are of no help to a brand new problem on the CZ.

As for Amtrak doing something, they'll do what they would normally do in a case like this, cobble together some loose cars sitting in the yard (maybe rush a few more out of the shop) and put together a consist to fill in the gap.

None of that however has anything to do with the suggestion that Amtrak keep several million of dollars of equipment just sitting around in a yard rotting & rusting on the off chance that they might need an extra consist one day because a train gets delayed enroute. That is a wasteful practice and not one that should be condoned by anyone who wants Amtrak to continue.

I mean other than if perhaps you had money to burn on a show car, would you buy a car and then never drive it? And that's just you personally. No company would ever buy a truck and then just leave it sitting around in case the other delivery truck they own breaks down. This is a costly and impractical thing to do. One doesn't make money if one has valuable assets just sitting around doing nothing but waiting for another asset to fail.

My comment was intended as partly sarcastic; I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Why can't Amtrak "loan" the CZ an extra consist from the EB, as Bruce C suggested? They'll get an extra one back as soon as the very very very-late CZ comes in.

Wait, looking at Status Maps... the #5 in question has departed CHI. That means that they got an extra consist from somewhere.

 

[AlanB]

Why can't Amtrak "loan" the CZ an extra consist from the EB, as Bruce C suggested? They'll get an extra one back as soon as the very very very-late CZ comes in.

Because the EB consists are like nothing else Amtrak runs. It requires considerable switching to break up an EB consist and put it back together as a CZ consist. You've got sleepers on the rear & in front on the EB, coaches between the diner & the cafe, still more coaches after the cafe.

Simply easier to cobble together loose cars in the yard than break up the EB consist and then put it back together when you get some CZ cars. Additionally the EB is supposed to run with only Rebuilt Superliner I sleepers, whereas the CZ may or may not have those cars.

Wait, looking at Status Maps... the #5 in question has departed CHI. That means that they got an extra consist from somewhere.

Most likely they did what I said and grabbed cars from the yard.

 

[Bruce-C]

Amtrak should start storing extra consists in CHI in case of extra-late trains like this one. It's clear that this consist will not turn around in time.

Amtrak doesn't have enough cars to store extra consists in Chicago. Besides, just have cars that cost a couple of million sitting around doing nothing is a waste. One needs to earn revenue to justify buying the cars in the first place.

Trainsets from the EB being halted have been sitting in Chicago or the west for 3-4 weeks now. Amtrak has to do something.

Trainsets that have been sitting around for the last several weeks but are going back into service this weekend are of no help to a brand new problem on the CZ.

As for Amtrak doing something, they'll do what they would normally do in a case like this, cobble together some loose cars sitting in the yard (maybe rush a few more out of the shop) and put together a consist to fill in the gap.

None of that however has anything to do with the suggestion that Amtrak keep several million of dollars of equipment just sitting around in a yard rotting & rusting on the off chance that they might need an extra consist one day because a train gets delayed enroute. That is a wasteful practice and not one that should be condoned by anyone who wants Amtrak to continue.

I mean other than if perhaps you had money to burn on a show car, would you buy a car and then never drive it? And that's just you personally. No company would ever buy a truck and then just leave it sitting around in case the other delivery truck they own breaks down. This is a costly and impractical thing to do. One doesn't make money if one has valuable assets just sitting around doing nothing but waiting for another asset to fail.

Sorry, but I don't agree with you.

If the #7 goes back into service on Sunday the 17th., they will not need the 3rd. trainset until Tues. the 19th. Giving time to use one the EB trainsets to ensure a quick Chicago turnaround of the terribly late #6's.

And if Amtrak's method to cure the #6 ills is to cobble something together. Well all that means is they have no plan, and a company without contingency plans is doomed.

Now, I don't know anyone who condones leaving equipment laying around and gathering rust. But you cannot deny that new equipment makes you money! Every company needs a constant influx of new equipment.

To use your statement, a trucking company will buy a new truck. They will immediately put that new truck on the road to replace a less efficient unit now on the road. They will keep the older unit as a spare (yes, sometime until it rusts) in the yard until its obvious time to scrap it.

That's how the people I have worked for make money. You need the latest equipment to maximize your profits.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Amtrak should start storing extra consists in CHI in case of extra-late trains like this one. It's clear that this consist will not turn around in time.

Amtrak doesn't have enough cars to store extra consists in Chicago. Besides, just have cars that cost a couple of million sitting around doing nothing is a waste. One needs to earn revenue to justify buying the cars in the first place.

Trainsets from the EB being halted have been sitting in Chicago or the west for 3-4 weeks now. Amtrak has to do something.

Trainsets that have been sitting around for the last several weeks but are going back into service this weekend are of no help to a brand new problem on the CZ.

As for Amtrak doing something, they'll do what they would normally do in a case like this, cobble together some loose cars sitting in the yard (maybe rush a few more out of the shop) and put together a consist to fill in the gap.

None of that however has anything to do with the suggestion that Amtrak keep several million of dollars of equipment just sitting around in a yard rotting & rusting on the off chance that they might need an extra consist one day because a train gets delayed enroute. That is a wasteful practice and not one that should be condoned by anyone who wants Amtrak to continue.

I mean other than if perhaps you had money to burn on a show car, would you buy a car and then never drive it? And that's just you personally. No company would ever buy a truck and then just leave it sitting around in case the other delivery truck they own breaks down. This is a costly and impractical thing to do. One doesn't make money if one has valuable assets just sitting around doing nothing but waiting for another asset to fail.

Sorry, but I don't agree with you.

If the #7 goes back into service on Sunday the 17th., they will not need the 3rd. trainset until Tues. the 19th. Giving time to use one the EB trainsets to ensure a quick Chicago turnaround of the terribly late #6's.

And if Amtrak's method to cure the #6 ills is to cobble something together. Well all that means is they have no plan, and a company without contingency plans is doomed.

Now, I don't know anyone who condones leaving equipment laying around and gathering rust. But you cannot deny that new equipment makes you money! Every company needs a constant influx of new equipment.

To use your statement, a trucking company will buy a new truck. They will immediately put that new truck on the road to replace a less efficient unit now on the road. They will keep the older unit as a spare (yes, sometime until it rusts) in the yard until its obvious time to scrap it.

That's how the people I have worked for make money. You need the latest equipment to maximize your profits.

And there you go! Congress hasnt appropriated any $$$ for Amtrak to purchase New Cars since the early 1980s! :help: They are currently running Trains with Equipment that has Millions and Millions of Miles on them, some are over 60 years old!! (Heritage Diners and Bag Cars!)Pretty Amazing that they are still Rolling IMO!! :excl: :excl: :excl:

Im one of those that has asked several times why, when the Builder was shut down, it's Trainsets couldnt be used on the Zephyr/Chief since only stub Trains were running between SEA/PDX (Busses! ), then sent back once the Builder resumed Service! Alan explained it pretty well, I too wish Amtrak had extra Equipment in reserve, the few Coaches and CCCs they have for Spares are just that, Few, the Real Problem is the Lack of Sleeping Cars and Diners, feeding 300-400 People is a real logistics feat on a LD train and Sleepers sell out DAILY on the Western Trains! No releif in site except on the Eastern trains when the New Equipment Order Finally shows up in Several Years!

 

[NY Penn]

And there you go! Congress hasnt appropriated any $$ for Amtrak to purchase New Cars since the early 1980s! :help:

So how did they buy/how are they going to buy the new Viewliners?

 

[Bob Dylan]

And there you go! Congress hasnt appropriated any $$ for Amtrak to purchase New Cars since the early 1980s! :help:

So how did they buy/how are they going to buy the new Viewliners?

Excellent question! I dont know all the details, but they are buying them on Spec with Ticket Revenue and possibly Loans from various "Funds" hoping Congress will finally come out of their Coma and Appropriate $$$ for this Badly Needed Necessity! Amtrak Joe Biden and the Obama Administration are "allegedly" Pro-Amtrak/HSR, it's the T-Pubs that seem to be the problem, and Idiots like Rep. Mica and his ilk that want to give away the Store, ie the NEC, to their Corporate Owners! Guess their Motto is let us Drive or Fly the Unfriendly Skies while we cut taxes on the Millionaires and Billionaires that Own them!!

 

[PaulM]

It's now 24 hours and 3 minutes late.

So why again was #6 24 hours late? Even in the bad old days, 15 hours was tops.

Since 2005 I've spent a lot of time between Winter Park and Granby; and it seemed like the UP was always working on the tracks. It looks like it has started up again. What's with that line? I've spent many hours waiting for #6 at WIP and rarely ever saw a freight.

 

[AlanB]

Trainsets that have been sitting around for the last several weeks but are going back into service this weekend are of no help to a brand new problem on the CZ.

As for Amtrak doing something, they'll do what they would normally do in a case like this, cobble together some loose cars sitting in the yard (maybe rush a few more out of the shop) and put together a consist to fill in the gap.

None of that however has anything to do with the suggestion that Amtrak keep several million of dollars of equipment just sitting around in a yard rotting & rusting on the off chance that they might need an extra consist one day because a train gets delayed enroute. That is a wasteful practice and not one that should be condoned by anyone who wants Amtrak to continue.

I mean other than if perhaps you had money to burn on a show car, would you buy a car and then never drive it? And that's just you personally. No company would ever buy a truck and then just leave it sitting around in case the other delivery truck they own breaks down. This is a costly and impractical thing to do. One doesn't make money if one has valuable assets just sitting around doing nothing but waiting for another asset to fail.

Sorry, but I don't agree with you.

If the #7 goes back into service on Sunday the 17th., they will not need the 3rd. trainset until Tues. the 19th. Giving time to use one the EB trainsets to ensure a quick Chicago turnaround of the terribly late #6's.

And if Amtrak's method to cure the #6 ills is to cobble something together. Well all that means is they have no plan, and a company without contingency plans is doomed.

Now, I don't know anyone who condones leaving equipment laying around and gathering rust. But you cannot deny that new equipment makes you money! Every company needs a constant influx of new equipment.

To use your statement, a trucking company will buy a new truck. They will immediately put that new truck on the road to replace a less efficient unit now on the road. They will keep the older unit as a spare (yes, sometime until it rusts) in the yard until its obvious time to scrap it.

That's how the people I have worked for make money. You need the latest equipment to maximize your profits.

As I pointed out in a subsequent post, there is no sense in breaking up a specialized consist with all the effort that entails, when they can simply pull cars from the yard & shops to make up a train for the CZ with far less effort.

And as I noted, there is no guarantee that the delayed inbound CZ is going to have the correct Superliner sleepers that the EB needs.

 

[AlanB]

And there you go! Congress hasnt appropriated any $$ for Amtrak to purchase New Cars since the early 1980s! :help:

So how did they buy/how are they going to buy the new Viewliners?

Excellent question! I dont know all the details, but they are buying them on Spec with Ticket Revenue and possibly Loans from various "Funds" hoping Congress will finally come out of their Coma and Appropriate $$$ for this Badly Needed Necessity! Amtrak Joe Biden and the Obama Administration are "allegedly" Pro-Amtrak/HSR, it's the T-Pubs that seem to be the problem, and Idiots like Rep. Mica and his ilk that want to give away the Store, ie the NEC, to their Corporate Owners! Guess their Motto is let us Drive or Fly the Unfriendly Skies while we cut taxes on the Millionaires and Billionaires that Own them!!

IIRC, Amtrak had asked Congress for funding for that and had hoped that it would be forthcoming, so they placed the order as they needed to get things started. Congress has yet to say one way or the other what they plan to do; big surprise there.

However, Amtrak has worked out a way to fund things themselves thanks to extra revenues coming in from the increased ridership and some loans. Those special guaranteed loans are also funding the purchase of the new electric locomotives.

 

[George B]

NRPC doesn’t hold up an EB trainset from going on the road just because they don’t have a full rebuilt-Superliner consist available. They will substitute any car that is revenue-service worthy. They try to keep the EB consistent, but certainly do not hold trainsets because they are unable to provide a complete “refurbished” consist. Breaking up a trainset isn’t that big of a deal. In fact, it happens more often than you think. Cars are pulled from consists for shop work all the time.

 

[AlanB]

NRPC doesn’t hold up an EB trainset from going on the road just because they don’t have a full rebuilt-Superliner consist available. They will substitute any car that is revenue-service worthy. They try to keep the EB consistent, but certainly do not hold trainsets because they are unable to provide a complete “refurbished” consist. Breaking up a trainset isn’t that big of a deal. In fact, it happens more often than you think. Cars are pulled from consists for shop work all the time.

Oh, I agree George 100%.

My point was, why break up that trainset when they can just cobble together cars from the yard? They've already got to couple cars together no matter what they do. So why add the extra work of breaking up the EB consist when they have enough spares in the yard to just make up a new CZ consist? And then the additional work to put an EB consist back together.

And why risk sending the EB out with non-rebuilt if they don't have to?

 

[George B]

I haven’t been to the Chicago car shops in the past few years to see how they do it lately, but I doubt the EB trainsets are sitting there with the cars lashed up ready for the road. In fact, due to the stub train consists, they likely have had the EB trainsets broken up for several weeks. I know there are people out there that have recorded info on the consists for the normal and stub runs of the EB, and that info could tell us a bit about how equipment is being moved through the system, if at all, during the disruption.

But, you are right about holding refurb cars for EB service. They will TRY and keep the refurbished cars as close to the EB route as they can so things could be returned to “normal” quickly. However, we all have seen Amtrak do strange things that leave us scratching our heads.