A little "training" in Europe

[cirdan]

I always love to see pictures of Cologne Cathedral.

Family legend has it that one of my ancestors was a stonemason who worked on it's construction (this was in the 19th Century, as despite construction beginning in the middle ages, the cathedral was not actually completed until as recently as 1880) . But to the best of our research we have been unable to find any proof of him having been employed there.

 

[jis]

Simply Railway recently reviewed the northbound version of this train on YouTube and really enjoyed it. Check out his video for more details about the train. Here's a few bonus views along the route:

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I have almost exactly those photos but taken by myself before the pandemic!

 

[jiml]

Now that we've been back home for a few days I thought I'd share a few random observations. I'm not going to "beat the dead horse" of comparison between European passenger service and that on this side of the Atlantic. I've accepted we can't have nice things here.

- The mobile Eurail pass gets a lot of bad press but worked just fine for two older folks who are not tethered to their phones. Maybe the support isn't there, however we never needed to call. The unsolicited extension of passes bought during the pandemic was much appreciated.

- European train stations are amazing. They are not just transportation centers but cultural hubs. In the larger ones you can buy everything from groceries to clothing, and if you can't find something to eat you might not be hungry. An hour in a Swiss one is a lesson in efficiency.

- Eurostar is onto something. Not sure why anyone would fly between the points they serve. Beautiful trains and excellent service. The crowds may be the only disadvantage.

- DB can serve cold beer from a tap and cook edible french fries on a train. Since our last visit they've also transitioned to traditional glass bottles for Coke, etc. Can't imagine the logistics needed to pull these things off.

- The Elizabeth Line is something Brits should be very proud of. The culmination of years of wrangling and delays, but it's a great service and was much needed.

- Didn't know fare avoidance was such a big thing - particularly in England.

- Freight train interference exists with high-speed services and the quantity of freight trains is higher than I've ever seen.

- I thought Europeans were more concerned with Covid masking than us. The only carrier still making a fuss was Air Canada.

- Most impressive linguistic award to the guy doing the announcements on DB between Brussels and Cologne: French, German, English and Flemish (Dutch) - never missing one.

- Although most know this, Mark Smith and the resources he provides at Seat61.com are invaluable for anyone planning European rail travel. Don't overlook the city station guides!

 

[user 6862]

- Eurostar is onto something. Not sure why anyone would fly between the points they serve. Beautiful trains and excellent service. The crowds may be the only disadvantage.

The Eurostar overcrowding may start to put people off using this excellent service as they have reduced the number of trains running daily.

Eurostar were never set up in either London or Paris to cope with the onerous extra border controls caused by Brexit, with the UK becoming a Third country to the EU, and of course vice versa. Neither station has much room to expand the border control area which is needed for more detailed scrutiny.
As an aside, they have the same problem at Dover for road/ferry based transport to France and Belgium.
We experienced it once before they reduced the number of daily trains, every train on the departure board was shown as a delay making for standing room only in the waiting area, for us for several hours.

I very much enjoyed your report, thanks for taking the time.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Interesting. We have a trip planned for next year that involves a fair amount of European train travel.

One thing I was wondering about is how to check status on trains if you are going through several countries. I would prefer not to have to load an app for every countries' rail system that we are going through.

 

[jiml]

Interesting. We have a trip planned for next year that involves a fair amount of European train travel.

One thing I was wondering about is how to check status on trains if you are going through several countries. I would prefer not to have to load an app for every countries' rail system that we are going through.

This covers several countries: It's all about trains. Current train positions in Germany, Austria, BeNeLux, Italy, Denmark and Slovenia
I used this mostly for planning (performance history) or for checking the progress of that day's train on laptop before leaving the hotel in the morning. I found it hard to read on a phone.

The DB app is accurate and reliable, covering not only Germany but DB trains in France, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland and Austria.

 

[Willbridge]

One thing for comparisons with North American stations to understand is that due to Blue Laws in Germany and likely elsewhere, retailers could not open on Sundays. For passenger convenience, station sales points were exempted from that. Of course, that gave them a boost so that now they are a familiar convenience for anyone. The American equivalent was the drugstore with a soda fountain (and sundaes) open on Sundays.

 

[Trollopian]

One thing for comparisons with North American stations to understand is that due to Blue Laws in Germany and likely elsewhere, retailers could not open on Sundays. For passenger convenience, station sales points were exempted from that. Of course, that gave them a boost so that now they are a familiar convenience for anyone. The American equivalent was the drugstore with a soda fountain (and sundaes) open on Sundays.

I'm sure it has changed...but my "adult" experience with the European version of what we Americans call Blue Laws (I recognize 'em from growing up in Prudish Pennsylvania) came in Scotland. A rainy, foggy, gloomy, Sunday night in late October 1982. I had traveled up that day on the Flying Scotsman, found that there wasn't a whole lot to do in Edinburgh on a Sunday night, went to a rather dour Church of Scotland service on my "When In Rome" principle which was kinda stark for this Episcopalian/Anglican, came back and ordered dinner in my hotel. With a glass of wine. On the Sabbath! That was apparently shocking and I was told I had to eat in the bar area. Which itself was pretty unlively.

That was actually my first long-distance (albeit not overnight) train trip, and I was glued to the windows from Kings Cross to Edinburgh Waverly. Particularly vivid memory of crossing the iconic High Level Bridge over the Tyne at Newcastle. I'm a big fan of Victorian engineering in general and Victorian railroad infrastructure in particular.

Edited to add: I now realize I probably crossed over the Tyne on the King Edward VII Bridge (1906), obviously Edwardian, which relieved the traffic going over the High Level Bridge, opened by Queen Victoria herself in 1848. Both marvels. I come from Pittsburgh so I bridges are in my blood.

 

[jiml]

@Willbridge is right. The trains and stations are a welcome respite (and necessity) for travellers in areas where this still happens. As observed above, even some hotels can be hit or miss. The ability to find something to eat at all on a Sunday diminishes relative to the population as well, with some less "touristy" areas having almost nothing. A few years ago we were in Mainz on the Rhine and had enjoyed a particularly good dinner at our small hotel on a Saturday night only to rise the next morning to find only an assortment of pastries and a coffeemaker set out on the bar for self-service breakfast. A walk into a busier section of town led to an outdoor cafe for lunch but dinner consisted of walking across to the train station for McDonald's.

 

[jis]

That was actually my first long-distance (albeit not overnight) train trip, and I was glued to the windows from Kings Cross to Edinburgh Waverly. Particularly vivid memory of crossing the iconic High Level Bridge over the Tyne at Newcastle. I'm a big fan of Victorian engineering in general and Victorian railroad infrastructure in particular.

Edited to add: I now realize I probably crossed over the Tyne on the King Edward VII Bridge (1906), obviously Edwardian, which relieved the traffic going over the High Level Bridge, opened by Queen Victoria herself in 1848. Both marvels. I come from Pittsburgh so I bridges are in my blood.

As bridges go on the East Coast Main Line (ECML), the Royal Border Bridge at Berwick upon Tweed and the bridge across the Aln at Alnmouth are interesting too.

Even though the bridge at Berwick is called the Royal Border Bridge, the actual border between England and Scotland is a little North of the town.

And if you had time in Edinburgh you should have gone for the bridge enthusiast's pilgrimage to Queensferry, North or South or both, to visit/cross the Forth Bridge, a masterpiece of Victorian engineering. It is a short ride on Scotrail locals to the Fife from Edinburgh Waverley.

 

[mcropod]

As bridges go on the East Coast Main Line (ECML), the Royal Border Bridge at Berwick upon Tweed and the bridge across the Aln at Alnmouth are interesting too.

Even though the bridge at Berwick is called the Royal Border Bridge, the actual border between England and Scotland is a little North of the town.

And if you had time in Edinburgh you should have gone for the bridge enthusiast's pilgrimage to Queensferry, North or South or both, to visit/cross the Forth Bridge, a masterpiece of Victorian engineering. It is a short ride on Scotrail locals to the Fife from Edinburgh Waverley.

Scotland likes its bridges, and has some of its iconic one on its banknotes, including the Forth Rail Bridge and the West Highland Line's Glenfinnan Viaduct. A Scottish travel vlogger I follow - Steve Marsh - has a youtube vid where he takes up the theme and travels to each of them.

 

[Willbridge]

The references above are making me jealous. The closest I've been to Scotland, aside from being a Presbyterian, was Harwich. I did read an excellent book on the subject:

Simmons, Jack; The Victorian Railway; Thames & Hudson; New York, NY; 1991.

I grew up with a lot of bridges in Portland, Oregon but I think that every major bridge in the Pacific Northwest was built in the 20th Century and few are monument worthy.

 

[jis]

Scotland likes its bridges, and has some of its iconic one on its banknotes, including the Forth Rail Bridge and the West Highland Line's Glenfinnan Viaduct. A Scottish travel vlogger I follow - Steve Marsh - has a youtube vid where he takes up the theme and travels to each of them.

Two more Scottish Rail Bridges that stand out in my mind are:

1. Tay Bridge, the first version of which fell down complete with a train causing much carnage. The second version is still standing. It is just before one gets to Dundee (between Leuchars (for St. Andrews) and Dundee) from Edinburgh on the line to Aberdeen. There is even a famous poem about it. It is said that as a result of the Tay Bridge experience, which was distinctly under-engineered, the Forth Rail bridge was immensely over-enigneered, and if maintained it is probably capable of lasting a long long time. So far it has proved to be the case.

2. Culloden Viaduct just outside of Inverness on the Glasgow/Edinburgh - Inverness Highland Line. It is near the famous Battlefield of Culloden Moor where the Jacobites under Charles Edward Stuart were finally defeated by the British Forces under Duke of Cumberland in the Battle of Culloden.

Incidentally, the first Battle of the Jacobite uprising in 1745 - the Battle of Prestopans -was fought at a place that one passes through on the East Coast Main Line, just before arriving in Edinburgh. It was at Prestopans in East Lothian, and all ECML trains pass through there.

And of course, Edinburgh Castle which looms over Edinburgh Waverly Station is deeply steeped in Scottish and British History.

As you can tell, I tend to get into the history of things that happened in the areas that I travel through by train, and find connections with the railway facilities en route.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

- The mobile Eurail pass gets a lot of bad press but worked just fine for two older folks who are not tethered to their phones. Maybe the support isn't there, however we never needed to call. The unsolicited extension of passes bought during the pandemic was much appreciated.

Good to know. What I would like to see is something akin to IATA and ICAO for trains. I believe similar organizations do exist but are not as focused on pushing and promoting smooth international connections and global interoperability. For me the holy grail is one app or API that integrates every plane, train, bus, and boat as if they were one service sold at the local price.

- European train stations are amazing. They are not just transportation centers but cultural hubs. In the larger ones you can buy everything from groceries to clothing, and if you can't find something to eat you might not be hungry. An hour in a Swiss one is a lesson in efficiency.

This is such an important factor in turning a good transportation system into something great. It's unfortunate (but presumably no accident) that zoning and funding laws helped ensure fully integrated mixed-mode hubs would gain little traction over here.

- Eurostar is onto something. Not sure why anyone would fly between the points they serve. Beautiful trains and excellent service. The crowds may be the only disadvantage.

Eurostar is a great service but ULCC's can still undercut them on price and for younger travelers that's often a big consideration.

- Freight train interference exists with high-speed services and the quantity of freight trains is higher than I've ever seen.

That's interesting. The only interference I ever saw was in the dense urban areas where HSR trains still travel on LSR tracks. I always thought it was curious how post-war European rails seemed to move freight about as often as American rails moved passengers.

- I thought Europeans were more concerned with Covid masking than us. The only carrier still making a fuss was Air Canada.

According to my memory Europeans started mask mandates earlier but also ended them earlier. NH and JL were big on masking and Japan only lifted the countrywide mandate in March. Something like 90% of Japanese citizens still mask up on mass transit anyway.

- Most impressive linguistic award to the guy doing the announcements on DB between Brussels and Cologne: French, German, English and Flemish (Dutch) - never missing one.

While indeed impressive, repetitive public address chatter is one reason I bring noise cancelling headphones on international trips.

 

[DetroitTed]

Two more Scottish Rail Bridges that stand out in my mind are:

1. Tay Bridge, the first version of which fell down complete with a train causing much carnage. The second version is still standing. It is just before one gets to Dundee (between Leuchars (for St. Andrews) and Dundee) from Edinburgh on the line to Aberdeen. There is even a famous poem about it. It is said that as a result of the Tay Bridge experience, which was distinctly under-engineered, the Forth Rail bridge was immensely over-enigneered, and if maintained it is probably capable of lasting a long long time. So far it has proved to be the case.

2. Culloden Viaduct just outside of Inverness on the Glasgow/Edinburgh - Inverness Highland Line. It is near the famous Battlefield of Culloden Moor where the Jacobites under Charles Edward Stuart were finally defeated by the British Forces under Duke of Cumberland in the Battle of Culloden.

Incidentally, the first Battle of the Jacobite uprising in 1745 - the Battle of Prestopans -was fought at a place that one passes through on the East Coast Main Line, just before arriving in Edinburgh. It was at Prestopans in East Lothian, and all ECML trains pass through there.

And of course, Edinburgh Castle which looms over Edinburgh Waverly Station is deeply steeped in Scottish and British History.

As you can tell, I tend to get into the history of things that happened in the areas that I travel through by train, and find connections with the railway facilities en route.

I just got back from an April trip where I took the train from Glasgow to Inverness ( and then on to Aberdeen) and the scenery is fantastic. I would highly recommend this trip. Also I preferred Inverness to Glasgow and had a very nice three day stay in INV with a side train day trip to Invergordon. Taking the train in Scotland is a great experience. I have more places there I want to go as well as a return to Edinburgh ( one of my favorite cities in the whole world)

 

[jis]

I just got back from an April trip where I took the train from Glasgow to Inverness ( and then on to Aberdeen) and the scenery is fantastic. I would highly recommend this trip. Also I preferred Inverness to Glasgow and had a very nice three day stay in INV with a side train day trip to Invergordon. Taking the train in Scotland is a great experience. I have more places there I want to go as well as a return to Edinburgh ( one of my favorite cities in the whole world)

I am with you on that. I have traveled all railway routes in Scotland. The fact that I have a close cousin who lives in Edinburgh and a Niece who went to Graduate School in University of St. Andrews, gave me ample opportunity to spend a lot of time in Scotland. Scotland is one of my favorite places to visit to ride all sorts of quaint railway lines.

 

[jiml]

That's interesting. The only interference I ever saw was in the dense urban areas where HSR trains still travel on LSR tracks. I always thought it was curious how post-war European rails seemed to move freight about as often as American rails moved passengers.

I agree, and that had certainly been my previous experience. I've wondered about the factors that were different this time - perhaps a move away from truck transport to trains for "green" reasons? Although I've seen TOFC trains before in Europe, they were a much larger component this time and we passed through some huge freight and container yards that would be more typical of this side of the Atlantic. At least train lengths there don't exceed the length of passing sidings.

According to my memory Europeans started mask mandates earlier but also ended them earlier. NH and JL were big on masking and Japan only lifted the countrywide mandate in March. Something like 90% of Japanese citizens still mask up on mass transit anyway.

We arrived shortly after the mask mandate on German public transportation was lifted and had anticipated still needing them. Few masks seen for the two weeks there and not an issue until boarding our flight home.

 

[BlackDiamond]

I am with you on that. I have traveled all railway routes in Scotland. The fact that I have a close cousin who lives in Edinburgh and a Niece who went to Graduate School in University of St. Andrews, gave me ample opportunity to spend a lot of time in Scotland. Scotland is one of my favorite places to visit to ride all sorts of quaint railway lines.

I have been on a few trips to Scotland as part of trips to the UK over the years, to Edinburgh via ECML (before electrification) when our engine broke down at Newcastle and they had switched in a replacement in 15 minutes . Edinburgh - Glasgow - Oban which at the time was single track still dispatched by the token system. In 1982 my wife and I rode from Euston to Inverness which at the time was I think the longest daytime trip you could take on BR. I recall stopping in a passing siding waiting for an "up" train and feeling like I was stopped somewhere in the woods of New Hampshire, the scenery being so much like New England. We even passed a ski lift near Aviemore and of course across that viaduct. Our original plan was to ride a round trip to Kyle of Localsh the next day but my wife was "trained out" so we settled on renting bicycles and riding out to Loch Ness to look for the monster

 

[jis]

I have been on a few trips to Scotland as part of trips to the UK over the years, to Edinburgh via ECML (before electrification) when our engine broke down at Newcastle and they had switched in a replacement in 15 minutes . Edinburgh - Glasgow - Oban which at the time was single track still dispatched by the token system. In 1982 my wife and I rode from Euston to Inverness which at the time was I think the longest daytime trip you could take on BR. I recall stopping in a passing siding waiting for an "up" train and feeling like I was stopped somewhere in the woods of New Hampshire, the scenery being so much like New England. We even passed a ski lift near Aviemore and of course across that viaduct. Our original plan was to ride a round trip to Kyle of Localsh the next day but my wife was "trained out" so we settled on renting bicycles and riding out to Loch Ness to look for the monster

I think the West Highland Line is still dispatched using Tokens, but of the Electronic kind.

Edinburgh - Glasgow is now fully electrified on all four routes and has several trains each hour via Falkirk. Electrification is starting to head North, though the Forth Bridge is still not electrified. So the trains to Fife and beyond from Edinburgh are all DMU/DEMU. Of course the longer distance Hitachi Class 8xx Azumas dual modes are, well dual mode. The trip to Kyle of Lochalsh is an interesting one ending right on a pier.

Incidentally there is a Cross Country service from Aberdeen to Plymouth, and one from Inverness to Plymouth, both taking a shade under 12 hours. So those are in the running for the longest single seat train journey in the UK I would imagine. I believe at least on some days there is a direct Aberdeen to Penzance service, which would be the longest at 785 miles.

 

[user 6862]

If this has not already been mentioned on the forum some may find it interesting :

Welsh Highland Heritage Railway's restored loco steams in

 

[Shanson]

Well, the Eurostar advantage over air travel is lessening, thanks to Brexit:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/exact-da...set-how-much-earlier-need-to-arrive-revealed/

 

[caravanman]

Well, the Eurostar advantage over air travel is lessening, thanks to Brexit:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/exact-da...set-how-much-earlier-need-to-arrive-revealed/

The UK has so much to thank Brexit for.

There is a Eurostar "flash sale" on today, so I have bought my tickets for a jaunt to Paris next month. Happily, it's before the extra checks, which I can avoid anyway, by dint of my Irish passport.

 

[Tinkerbell]

Well, the Eurostar advantage over air travel is lessening, thanks to Brexit:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/exact-da...set-how-much-earlier-need-to-arrive-revealed/

Just read the article ... In September, after my trip east on the CZ and the Cardinal, a few days in New York, I'm going to the UK. While there, in October, I'm getting the Eurostar to Lille leaving London, St Pancras at 0700. I'll have to camp out on the doorstep to be there early enough

 

[Traveller]

Just read the article ... In September, after my trip east on the CZ and the Cardinal, a few days in New York, I'm going to the UK. While there, in October, I'm getting the Eurostar to Lille leaving London, St Pancras at 0700. I'll have to camp out on the doorstep to be there early enough

Starbucks inside the station is open 24 hours. Not the most comfortable but warm and dry. For a late at night arrival for a very early train we used Costa Coffee, much more comfortable but see they are now only open until 10pm, but maybe worth a look to see if they have reverted to 24 hours.

If you are early enough the seating in the waiting area is not too bad either, but often there are more passengers than seating although during the night should be ok.

 

[Tinkerbell]

Starbucks inside the station is open 24 hours. Not the most comfortable but warm and dry. For a late at night arrival for a very early train we used Costa Coffee, much more comfortable but see they are now only open until 10pm, but maybe worth a look to see if they have reverted to 24 hours.

If you are early enough the seating in the waiting area is not too bad either, but often there are more passengers than seating although during the night should be ok.

Thanks for the info, might get my knitting started early before I'm even on the train. I've carried on the tradition of knitting on the train!