A plan for improving Amtrak Southeast service

[NativeSon5859]

This all depends of the availability of new equipment and funds, obviously, but it's fun to think outside the box. So, I came up with this plan for expanding and improving Amtrak service in the Southeast. I made complete timetables which I have saved as an Excel file. If anyone would like to see them you can send me an email. This has been my hobby for the past couple of days.

•New daily Southerner service between San Antonio and Atlanta via Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, and Montgomery; Thruway bus connection from Atmore to Pensacola for connection with train #110 to Florida.

•New daily Gulf Wind service between New Orleans and Miami via Mobile, Tallahassee, Jacksonville, and Orlando; Connections with trains #1/2/58/59 in New Orleans; Services the Gulf Coast during more reasonable times than previous service offered.

•New daily Sunset Limited service between Los Angeles and New Orleans; Connections with trains #62/63 in New Orleans for Mobile, Orlando, Miami, and all intermediate stops.

•New three-times-weekly Sunshine State service between Orlando and Pensacola via Jacksonville, with Thruway bus connection out of Pensacola for connection with train #120 to Montgomery/Atlanta.

•Expanded Amtrak service for the key markets of Atlanta and Houston

•New, faster service between Atlanta and Florida offered three times weekly

Train #119/120

The Southerner

•San Antonio - Houston – New Orleans – Mobile – Montgomery – Atlanta

•Daily departures

•Connects with trains #19/20 in Atlanta for points North

•Amtrak Thruway Bus connection from Atmore station to Pensacola for connections with trains 110/111 to Florida three times weekly

•Equipment: Superliner Coaches (2), Cross Country Café (1), Superliner Sleeping car (1)

Note: To avoid overlap, passengers traveling between NOL-ATL/ATL-NOL only will be encouraged to use trains 19/20; Trains 119/120 are available for booking NOL-ATL / ATL-NOL but with a higher fare bucket. Passengers traveling between NOL and all stops prior to ATL are excluded from this.

Train #62/63

The Gulf Wind

•New Orleans – Mobile – Tallahassee – Jacksonville – Orlando - Miami

•Daily departures

•Connects with trains #1/2/58/59 in New Orleans

•Equipment: Amfleet 2 coaches (3), Amfleet Diner/Lounge, Viewliner Sleeping car; Checked baggage service available.

Train #110/111

The Sunshine State

•Orlando – Jacksonville – Tallahassee – Pensacola

•Three weekly departures

•Amtrak Thruway Bus connection from Pensacola to Atmore for connections to/from trains 119/120.

•Connections to/from Silver Service trains in Orlando to/from South Florida

•Equipment: Amfleet 2 coaches (2), Florida Business Class, Cafe

 

[Kramerica]

Why not daily for the Sunshine State? The consensus on this board seems to be that anything less than daily results in difficulties.

Why single-level equipment for the Sunshine State and Gulf Wind?

Why the discouragment of people using the Southerner for NOL-ATL trips? Presumably the schedule will be hours off of the Crescent's, so people will mainly be deciding between the two based on schedule. And if you're thinking people going ATL-NOL will be taking up spots people would be using for the entire run, I'd think that there would be many people getting on in NOL to go to HOU.

 

[cpamtfan]

This all depends of the availability of new equipment and funds, obviously, but it's fun to think outside the box. So, I came up with this plan for expanding and improving Amtrak service in the Southeast. I made complete timetables which I have saved as an Excel file. If anyone would like to see them you can send me an email. This has been my hobby for the past couple of days.


•New daily Southerner service between San Antonio and Atlanta via Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, and Montgomery; Thruway bus connection from Atmore to Pensacola for connection with train #110 to Florida.

•New daily Gulf Wind service between New Orleans and Miami via Mobile, Tallahassee, Jacksonville, and Orlando; Connections with trains #1/2/58/59 in New Orleans; Services the Gulf Coast during more reasonable times than previous service offered.

•New daily Sunset Limited service between Los Angeles and New Orleans; Connections with trains #62/63 in New Orleans for Mobile, Orlando, Miami, and all intermediate stops.

•New three-times-weekly Sunshine State service between Orlando and Pensacola via Jacksonville, with Thruway bus connection out of Pensacola for connection with train #120 to Montgomery/Atlanta.

•Expanded Amtrak service for the key markets of Atlanta and Houston

•New, faster service between Atlanta and Florida offered three times weekly

Train #119/120

The Southerner

•San Antonio - Houston – New Orleans – Mobile – Montgomery – Atlanta

•Daily departures

•Connects with trains #19/20 in Atlanta for points North

•Amtrak Thruway Bus connection from Atmore station to Pensacola for connections with trains 110/111 to Florida three times weekly

•Equipment: Superliner Coaches (2), Cross Country Café (1), Superliner Sleeping car (1)

Note: To avoid overlap, passengers traveling between NOL-ATL/ATL-NOL only will be encouraged to use trains 19/20; Trains 119/120 are available for booking NOL-ATL / ATL-NOL but with a higher fare bucket. Passengers traveling between NOL and all stops prior to ATL are excluded from this.

Train #62/63

The Gulf Wind

•New Orleans – Mobile – Tallahassee – Jacksonville – Orlando - Miami

•Daily departures

•Connects with trains #1/2/58/59 in New Orleans

•Equipment: Amfleet 2 coaches (3), Amfleet Diner/Lounge, Viewliner Sleeping car; Checked baggage service available.

Train #110/111

The Sunshine State

•Orlando – Jacksonville – Tallahassee – Pensacola

•Three weekly departures

•Amtrak Thruway Bus connection from Pensacola to Atmore for connections to/from trains 119/120.

•Connections to/from Silver Service trains in Orlando to/from South Florida

•Equipment: Amfleet 2 coaches (2), Florida Business Class, Cafe

I had the idea of having two different trains from LA-NOL-Orlando. The Orlando-New Orleans section would be called the Gulf Connection. I am still working on other stuff, but I might get back to this soon.

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[haolerider]

This all depends of the availability of new equipment and funds, obviously, but it's fun to think outside the box. So, I came up with this plan for expanding and improving Amtrak service in the Southeast. I made complete timetables which I have saved as an Excel file. If anyone would like to see them you can send me an email. This has been my hobby for the past couple of days.


•New daily Southerner service between San Antonio and Atlanta via Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, and Montgomery; Thruway bus connection from Atmore to Pensacola for connection with train #110 to Florida.

•New daily Gulf Wind service between New Orleans and Miami via Mobile, Tallahassee, Jacksonville, and Orlando; Connections with trains #1/2/58/59 in New Orleans; Services the Gulf Coast during more reasonable times than previous service offered.

•New daily Sunset Limited service between Los Angeles and New Orleans; Connections with trains #62/63 in New Orleans for Mobile, Orlando, Miami, and all intermediate stops.

•New three-times-weekly Sunshine State service between Orlando and Pensacola via Jacksonville, with Thruway bus connection out of Pensacola for connection with train #120 to Montgomery/Atlanta.

•Expanded Amtrak service for the key markets of Atlanta and Houston

•New, faster service between Atlanta and Florida offered three times weekly

Train #119/120

The Southerner

•San Antonio - Houston – New Orleans – Mobile – Montgomery – Atlanta

•Daily departures

•Connects with trains #19/20 in Atlanta for points North

•Amtrak Thruway Bus connection from Atmore station to Pensacola for connections with trains 110/111 to Florida three times weekly

•Equipment: Superliner Coaches (2), Cross Country Café (1), Superliner Sleeping car (1)

Note: To avoid overlap, passengers traveling between NOL-ATL/ATL-NOL only will be encouraged to use trains 19/20; Trains 119/120 are available for booking NOL-ATL / ATL-NOL but with a higher fare bucket. Passengers traveling between NOL and all stops prior to ATL are excluded from this.

Train #62/63

The Gulf Wind

•New Orleans – Mobile – Tallahassee – Jacksonville – Orlando - Miami

•Daily departures

•Connects with trains #1/2/58/59 in New Orleans

•Equipment: Amfleet 2 coaches (3), Amfleet Diner/Lounge, Viewliner Sleeping car; Checked baggage service available.

Train #110/111

The Sunshine State

•Orlando – Jacksonville – Tallahassee – Pensacola

•Three weekly departures

•Amtrak Thruway Bus connection from Pensacola to Atmore for connections to/from trains 119/120.

•Connections to/from Silver Service trains in Orlando to/from South Florida

•Equipment: Amfleet 2 coaches (2), Florida Business Class, Cafe

I had the idea of having two different trains from LA-NOL-Orlando. The Orlando-New Orleans section would be called the Gulf Connection. I am still working on other stuff, but I might get back to this soon.

cpamtfan-Peter

There is not enough business currently on the ATL-NOL leg of 19/20, so I cannot see the need for rail transportation from SAS-ATL, through Houston. Houston is a CO hub and anyone wanting to go east is going to fly, not take the train and why would someone spend all that time on the train from SAS to ATL?

Also, the idea of three day a week service is difficult to manage and difficult to sell.

You may be overloading the routes with too much duplicate service, but feel free to dream away.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

This all depends of the availability of new equipment and funds, obviously, but it's fun to think outside the box. So, I came up with this plan for expanding and improving Amtrak service in the Southeast. I made complete timetables which I have saved as an Excel file. If anyone would like to see them you can send me an email. This has been my hobby for the past couple of days.


•New daily Southerner service between San Antonio and Atlanta via Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, and Montgomery; Thruway bus connection from Atmore to Pensacola for connection with train #110 to Florida.

•New daily Gulf Wind service between New Orleans and Miami via Mobile, Tallahassee, Jacksonville, and Orlando; Connections with trains #1/2/58/59 in New Orleans; Services the Gulf Coast during more reasonable times than previous service offered.

•New daily Sunset Limited service between Los Angeles and New Orleans; Connections with trains #62/63 in New Orleans for Mobile, Orlando, Miami, and all intermediate stops.

•New three-times-weekly Sunshine State service between Orlando and Pensacola via Jacksonville, with Thruway bus connection out of Pensacola for connection with train #120 to Montgomery/Atlanta.

•Expanded Amtrak service for the key markets of Atlanta and Houston

•New, faster service between Atlanta and Florida offered three times weekly

Train #119/120

The Southerner

•San Antonio - Houston – New Orleans – Mobile – Montgomery – Atlanta

•Daily departures

•Connects with trains #19/20 in Atlanta for points North

•Amtrak Thruway Bus connection from Atmore station to Pensacola for connections with trains 110/111 to Florida three times weekly

•Equipment: Superliner Coaches (2), Cross Country Café (1), Superliner Sleeping car (1)

Note: To avoid overlap, passengers traveling between NOL-ATL/ATL-NOL only will be encouraged to use trains 19/20; Trains 119/120 are available for booking NOL-ATL / ATL-NOL but with a higher fare bucket. Passengers traveling between NOL and all stops prior to ATL are excluded from this.

Train #62/63

The Gulf Wind

•New Orleans – Mobile – Tallahassee – Jacksonville – Orlando - Miami

•Daily departures

•Connects with trains #1/2/58/59 in New Orleans

•Equipment: Amfleet 2 coaches (3), Amfleet Diner/Lounge, Viewliner Sleeping car; Checked baggage service available.

Train #110/111

The Sunshine State

•Orlando – Jacksonville – Tallahassee – Pensacola

•Three weekly departures

•Amtrak Thruway Bus connection from Pensacola to Atmore for connections to/from trains 119/120.

•Connections to/from Silver Service trains in Orlando to/from South Florida

•Equipment: Amfleet 2 coaches (2), Florida Business Class, Cafe

I had the idea of having two different trains from LA-NOL-Orlando. The Orlando-New Orleans section would be called the Gulf Connection. I am still working on other stuff, but I might get back to this soon.

cpamtfan-Peter

There is not enough business currently on the ATL-NOL leg of 19/20, so I cannot see the need for rail transportation from SAS-ATL, through Houston. Houston is a CO hub and anyone wanting to go east is going to fly, not take the train and why would someone spend all that time on the train from SAS to ATL?

Also, the idea of three day a week service is difficult to manage and difficult to sell.

You may be overloading the routes with too much duplicate service, but feel free to dream away.

The main reason for low ridership ATL-NOL is simply frequency, its impossible to do a day-trip so all you get between ATL is people heading to NOL, ATL or the NEC. If they ran on 12 or better yet 6 hr intervals traffic would pick up significantly, to me they should start dumping the last 2 coaches at ATL for 20 to pick up going north for nothing more than fuel savings, as long as it didn't require adding time or employees.

 

[Larry H.]

How about extending some of those lines into St. Louis which is the center just about of the country. Then with some through connections to the west say the Denver route north to Seattle and South as it does to San Francisco a lot of people could get to all areas of the south a lot easier than through Chicago. Way too much time is being wasted with travel into Chicago for those wishing to go south.

I don't recall the tie in lines, some may, but a St. Louis Florida route and to Atlanta with interconnections to your lines would make sense to me and give the whole country a lot better choices and save time.

 

[haolerider]

This all depends of the availability of new equipment and funds, obviously, but it's fun to think outside the box. So, I came up with this plan for expanding and improving Amtrak service in the Southeast. I made complete timetables which I have saved as an Excel file. If anyone would like to see them you can send me an email. This has been my hobby for the past couple of days.


•New daily Southerner service between San Antonio and Atlanta via Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, and Montgomery; Thruway bus connection from Atmore to Pensacola for connection with train #110 to Florida.

•New daily Gulf Wind service between New Orleans and Miami via Mobile, Tallahassee, Jacksonville, and Orlando; Connections with trains #1/2/58/59 in New Orleans; Services the Gulf Coast during more reasonable times than previous service offered.

•New daily Sunset Limited service between Los Angeles and New Orleans; Connections with trains #62/63 in New Orleans for Mobile, Orlando, Miami, and all intermediate stops.

•New three-times-weekly Sunshine State service between Orlando and Pensacola via Jacksonville, with Thruway bus connection out of Pensacola for connection with train #120 to Montgomery/Atlanta.

•Expanded Amtrak service for the key markets of Atlanta and Houston

•New, faster service between Atlanta and Florida offered three times weekly

Train #119/120

The Southerner

•San Antonio - Houston – New Orleans – Mobile – Montgomery – Atlanta

•Daily departures

•Connects with trains #19/20 in Atlanta for points North

•Amtrak Thruway Bus connection from Atmore station to Pensacola for connections with trains 110/111 to Florida three times weekly

•Equipment: Superliner Coaches (2), Cross Country Café (1), Superliner Sleeping car (1)

Note: To avoid overlap, passengers traveling between NOL-ATL/ATL-NOL only will be encouraged to use trains 19/20; Trains 119/120 are available for booking NOL-ATL / ATL-NOL but with a higher fare bucket. Passengers traveling between NOL and all stops prior to ATL are excluded from this.

Train #62/63

The Gulf Wind

•New Orleans – Mobile – Tallahassee – Jacksonville – Orlando - Miami

•Daily departures

•Connects with trains #1/2/58/59 in New Orleans

•Equipment: Amfleet 2 coaches (3), Amfleet Diner/Lounge, Viewliner Sleeping car; Checked baggage service available.

Train #110/111

The Sunshine State

•Orlando – Jacksonville – Tallahassee – Pensacola

•Three weekly departures

•Amtrak Thruway Bus connection from Pensacola to Atmore for connections to/from trains 119/120.

•Connections to/from Silver Service trains in Orlando to/from South Florida

•Equipment: Amfleet 2 coaches (2), Florida Business Class, Cafe

I had the idea of having two different trains from LA-NOL-Orlando. The Orlando-New Orleans section would be called the Gulf Connection. I am still working on other stuff, but I might get back to this soon.

cpamtfan-Peter

There is not enough business currently on the ATL-NOL leg of 19/20, so I cannot see the need for rail transportation from SAS-ATL, through Houston. Houston is a CO hub and anyone wanting to go east is going to fly, not take the train and why would someone spend all that time on the train from SAS to ATL?

Also, the idea of three day a week service is difficult to manage and difficult to sell.

You may be overloading the routes with too much duplicate service, but feel free to dream away.

The main reason for low ridership ATL-NOL is simply frequency, its impossible to do a day-trip so all you get between ATL is people heading to NOL, ATL or the NEC. If they ran on 12 or better yet 6 hr intervals traffic would pick up significantly, to me they should start dumping the last 2 coaches at ATL for 20 to pick up going north for nothing more than fuel savings, as long as it didn't require adding time or employees.

I disagree on the issue of frequency. I don't think there would be any appreciable increase in ridership if there were two trains from which to choose. Ridership between ATL and NOL is more than just the one destination. Anniston, Birmingham, Tuscaloosa and Meridian are certainly in use, along with New Orleans.

Also, the idea of dropping two coaches in ATL would be very expensive, since there is no mechanical force in ATL and that would mean either contracting with NS twice a day or hiring a crew/employees to do the work. This was done several years ago and was abandoned based on the costs invovled.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Haolerider is correct. Amtrak felt is was less expensive to run the Crescent daily Atlanta to New Orleans rather than 3 days week and have to maintain a crew in Atlanta to service the train on days it didn't run through to New Orleans. A train from Atlanta through Montgomery to Mobile and New Orleans might be a possibility. There are lots of people in Atlanta who travel to the Gulf Coast casinos that might use such a train. The A&WP-WRA tracks between Atlanta and Montgomery would likely need to be upgraded.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

How about extending some of those lines into St. Louis which is the center just about of the country. Then with some through connections to the west say the Denver route north to Seattle and South as it does to San Francisco a lot of people could get to all areas of the south a lot easier than through Chicago. Way too much time is being wasted with travel into Chicago for those wishing to go south.
I don't recall the tie in lines, some may, but a St. Louis Florida route and to Atlanta with interconnections to your lines would make sense to me and give the whole country a lot better choices and save time.

There were two lines from St.Louiis to Florida though neither was very strong. One was the L&N St.Louis, Evansville, Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta, then became Atlantic Coast Line to Jax, FEC to Miami. But on that route the much bigger share of the business came out of Chicago. Trains from Chicago and from St. Louis merged in Evansville, southbound.From the early 50's forward there were no through St.Louis cars any further than Atlanta.

The other route is the Illinois Central, St. Louis, Carbondale,Birmingham, where it became a Central of Georgia train to Albany to become an Atlantic Coast Line train, to Jax and then FEC beyond that. The route, too, was much heavier from Chicago, with trains from Chicago and from St.Louis merging in Carbondale.

 

[MattW]

About the only route that I can see happening (aside from resuming the SL east of NOL) is a St. Louis to Florida route. That'd help capture the Chicago/Midwest-Florida crowd IMO. Unfortunately, I don't see how it's logistically possible. I've been using Google Maps to follow the rail lines out of Atlanta and see if they can make it up to St. Louis, but because I don't know what lines belong to which carrier, I'm lost. Also it's the condition of the lines that matter. Except for some of the bigger higher-density lines in and around the larger cities, I doubt the rails could readily support passenger traffic except maybe at 30mph or some such ludicrously low speed.

Also, except for St. Louis-ans, and people in between I don't see how this would offer any benefit over the CL/Silver Service trains as it'd still be a least a two-nighter. By road it's about 560 miles STL-ATL and about 440 miles by road. By some strange numerical coincidence, that's exactly 1,000 miles (I didn't plan it that way, honest!)

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

About the only route that I can see happening (aside from resuming the SL east of NOL) is a St. Louis to Florida route. That'd help capture the Chicago/Midwest-Florida crowd IMO. Unfortunately, I don't see how it's logistically possible. I've been using Google Maps to follow the rail lines out of Atlanta and see if they can make it up to St. Louis, but because I don't know what lines belong to which carrier, I'm lost. Also it's the condition of the lines that matter. Except for some of the bigger higher-density lines in and around the larger cities, I doubt the rails could readily support passenger traffic except maybe at 30mph or some such ludicrously low speed.
Also, except for St. Louis-ans, and people in between I don't see how this would offer any benefit over the CL/Silver Service trains as it'd still be a least a two-nighter. By road it's about 560 miles STL-ATL and about 440 miles by road. By some strange numerical coincidence, that's exactly 1,000 miles (I didn't plan it that way, honest!)

Matt,you and I posted at about the same time so you did not see my post. I gave the railroads(using the old names). In today's terms that woud be CSX.The mileage was 609.

I am going to give the route again showing more of the small towns-- St. Louis,Belleville,Mt.Vernon, Evansville, Madisonville, Hopkinsville,Guthrie, Nashville, Tullahoma, Chattanooga, Dalton Cartersville, Marietta,Atlanta.

 

[jphjaxfl]

The former L&N Line from St. Louis to Evansville is partially abandoned. CSX has combined parts of that line with the former B&O St. Louis - Cincinnati route of the National Ltd. I am not sure if it is still possible to run a train from St. Louis to Evansville. Also parts of the former IC route of the City of Miami have been abandoned. The City of Miami was the last St. Louis-Florida train and was the only through Chicago - Florida train just prior to May 1, 1971 when Amtrak reinstated the through South Wind as the daily Chicago-Florida train. At one time, the Frisco ran through cars from St. Louis to Florida via Memphis. I am not sure if any of those former lines from St. Louis to Florida could operate a through train with all the route abandonments.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Having two trains from ATL to NOL at about the same time has happened before.

Amtrak used to run the Gulf Breeze, split off from the Crescent at BHM to go to Montgomery and Mobile.

And for many years before Amtrak the train which used to be called the Crescent (which went via Montgomery and Mobile) and the train which used to be called the Southerner (which went via BHM and Meridian)used to leave within a hour or two of each other.

Grabbing an 8/2/59 timetable it shows the Crescent leaving ATL 8:30a.m. via Montgomery and Mobile arriving NOL at 7:30 p.m. It shows the Southerner leaving ATl 10:00 a.m. via BHM and Meridian arrivng NOL at 8:50p.m.

Northbound the schedules were quite different and not that near.

 

[had8ley]

The main reason for low ridership ATL-NOL is simply frequency... to me they should start dumping the last 2 coaches at ATL for 20 to pick up going north for nothing more than fuel savings, as long as it didn't require adding time or employees.

Knock, knock~ HELLO Amtrak! Is anybody home?

 

[haolerider]

The main reason for low ridership ATL-NOL is simply frequency... to me they should start dumping the last 2 coaches at ATL for 20 to pick up going north for nothing more than fuel savings, as long as it didn't require adding time or employees.

Knock, knock~ HELLO Amtrak! Is anybody home?

Yes, I am sure someone is home! The analysis has been done many times and the cost savings on fuel and maintenance is not significant compared to the costs associated with a mechanical crew twice a day to handle the work. Either a contract with NS or additional Amtrak mechanical employees are required. With the separation of 11+ hours between trains, this can amount to a large potential addition to payroll.

 

[lepearso]

Here's one thing we could do QUICKLY to make Amtrak services in the Southeast more practical.

I am pushing for a Birmingham-Memphis connecting bus service. The arrivals and departures of the Crescent and the City of New Orleans make it possible for one daily round trip to interconnect with both routes.

Here's a sample of the matrix of services and connections this would offer:

1) Amtrak riders in Atlanta could get to Chicago in 24 hours! As it stands today, an Amtrak rider in Atlanta would have budget anywhere from 36 to 48 hours! The same is true in reverse from Chicago to Atlanta.

2) Amtrak riders in Birmingham could get to Chicago in less than 18 hours. As it stands today, it would take about 30 hours via new Orleans plus a hotel room. The same is true in reverse.

3) Amtrak riders in Memphis could get to and from Charlotte in about 20 hours, to and from DC in about 27 hours, to and from New York in about 33 hours.

And you get the idea...

This same bus route would presumably stop in Tupelo, MS, giving an entire city (with three colleges and growing industry) easy access to two different Amtrak routes in two different cities.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Here's one thing we could do QUICKLY to make Amtrak services in the Southeast more practical.
I am pushing for a Birmingham-Memphis connecting bus service. The arrivals and departures of the Crescent and the City of New Orleans make it possible for one daily round trip to interconnect with both routes.

Here's a sample of the matrix of services and connections this would offer:

1) Amtrak riders in Atlanta could get to Chicago in 24 hours! As it stands today, an Amtrak rider in Atlanta would have budget anywhere from 36 to 48 hours! The same is true in reverse from Chicago to Atlanta.

2) Amtrak riders in Birmingham could get to Chicago in less than 18 hours. As it stands today, it would take about 30 hours via new Orleans plus a hotel room. The same is true in reverse.

3) Amtrak riders in Memphis could get to and from Charlotte in about 20 hours, to and from DC in about 27 hours, to and from New York in about 33 hours.

And you get the idea...

This same bus route would presumably stop in Tupelo, MS, giving an entire city (with three colleges and growing industry) easy access to two different Amtrak routes in two different cities.

You get to go to the head of the class. I myself have used this bus oonnection several times in the past. Biggest obstacle to it at present is lateness, since sometimes the schedule between exisitng Greyhounds and the train have been too close. But being an Amtrak dedicated bus that would help smooth that over.

OF course if the s.b. Cresent into BHM is five hours late, that would cause a problem reaching Memphis.

 

[had8ley]

The main reason for low ridership ATL-NOL is simply frequency... to me they should start dumping the last 2 coaches at ATL for 20 to pick up going north for nothing more than fuel savings, as long as it didn't require adding time or employees.

Knock, knock~ HELLO Amtrak! Is anybody home?

Yes, I am sure someone is home! The analysis has been done many times and the cost savings on fuel and maintenance is not significant compared to the costs associated with a mechanical crew twice a day to handle the work. Either a contract with NS or additional Amtrak mechanical employees are required. With the separation of 11+ hours between trains, this can amount to a large potential addition to payroll.

Well at least let me make a proposal; you hire a part-time coach cleaner (or contract it out if possible) and have #19 drop the two rear coaches and #20 back down onto the cars and couple up on the return. The train crew is qualified to make a brake test and I seem to remember the train crew coupling every thing up at B'Ham when the Crescent split to Mobile. If we need a full blown carman then pay the NS for one for two hours. I'm sure the wear and tear on two coaches going over 1,000 miles R/T DAILY adds up and equates to many more dollars than two hours of a carman's time. Seems like someone stopped half way through the puzzle

P.S. IF this is not feasible then why not put these 100 plus seats on the "Weakly" Specials that haven't changed in about 52 weeks or better? :unsure:

 

[haolerider]

The main reason for low ridership ATL-NOL is simply frequency... to me they should start dumping the last 2 coaches at ATL for 20 to pick up going north for nothing more than fuel savings, as long as it didn't require adding time or employees.

Knock, knock~ HELLO Amtrak! Is anybody home?

Yes, I am sure someone is home! The analysis has been done many times and the cost savings on fuel and maintenance is not significant compared to the costs associated with a mechanical crew twice a day to handle the work. Either a contract with NS or additional Amtrak mechanical employees are required. With the separation of 11+ hours between trains, this can amount to a large potential addition to payroll.

Well at least let me make a proposal; you hire a part-time coach cleaner (or contract it out if possible) and have #19 drop the two rear coaches and #20 back down onto the cars and couple up on the return. The train crew is qualified to make a brake test and I seem to remember the train crew coupling every thing up at B'Ham when the Crescent split to Mobile. If we need a full blown carman then pay the NS for one for two hours. I'm sure the wear and tear on two coaches going over 1,000 miles R/T DAILY adds up and equates to many more dollars than two hours of a carman's time. Seems like someone stopped half way through the puzzle

P.S. IF this is not feasible then why not put these 100 plus seats on the "Weakly" Specials that haven't changed in about 52 weeks or better? :unsure:

I am sure you are familiar with the ATL station. Exactly where do you propose storing the two coaches? Both tracks are active freight tracks and you need a locomotive to move the coaches to another location.

 

[had8ley]

The main reason for low ridership ATL-NOL is simply frequency... to me they should start dumping the last 2 coaches at ATL for 20 to pick up going north for nothing more than fuel savings, as long as it didn't require adding time or employees.

Knock, knock~ HELLO Amtrak! Is anybody home?

Yes, I am sure someone is home! The analysis has been done many times and the cost savings on fuel and maintenance is not significant compared to the costs associated with a mechanical crew twice a day to handle the work. Either a contract with NS or additional Amtrak mechanical employees are required. With the separation of 11+ hours between trains, this can amount to a large potential addition to payroll.

Well at least let me make a proposal; you hire a part-time coach cleaner (or contract it out if possible) and have #19 drop the two rear coaches and #20 back down onto the cars and couple up on the return. The train crew is qualified to make a brake test and I seem to remember the train crew coupling every thing up at B'Ham when the Crescent split to Mobile. If we need a full blown carman then pay the NS for one for two hours. I'm sure the wear and tear on two coaches going over 1,000 miles R/T DAILY adds up and equates to many more dollars than two hours of a carman's time. Seems like someone stopped half way through the puzzle

P.S. IF this is not feasible then why not put these 100 plus seats on the "Weakly" Specials that haven't changed in about 52 weeks or better? :unsure:

I am sure you are familiar with the ATL station. Exactly where do you propose storing the two coaches? Both tracks are active freight tracks and you need a locomotive to move the coaches to another location.

Well, you could cut in a double ended house track off of one of the mains. This could also double as a set out track for Amtrak bad orders and extra equipment moves such as the one I have proposed. And just why do the coaches have to be set out at the station? They used to go with the mail cars some distance from the station. Is there not somewhere south of the station where two cars could be set out by #19 and picked up by #20? Bill ought to have some ideas on this as he is right there. If that fails we could enhance Amtrak's bottom line by selling the 100 plus seats (EACH WAY DAILY) for $25 a piece on the Weakly Specials or run an Atlanta to NOL promo.. Your food revenue would sky rocket as the ride, in both directions, has three meal times which would keep the diner and lounge car busy and solve two problems at one lick~ ridership enhancement and food and beverage revenues.

What Amtrak is doing right now does not make sense; you can throw money figures around all day but you can't justify shutting down two coaches and dragging them around for over 1,000 miles without drawing one nickel in revenue.

 

[haolerider]

The main reason for low ridership ATL-NOL is simply frequency... to me they should start dumping the last 2 coaches at ATL for 20 to pick up going north for nothing more than fuel savings, as long as it didn't require adding time or employees.

Knock, knock~ HELLO Amtrak! Is anybody home?

Yes, I am sure someone is home! The analysis has been done many times and the cost savings on fuel and maintenance is not significant compared to the costs associated with a mechanical crew twice a day to handle the work. Either a contract with NS or additional Amtrak mechanical employees are required. With the separation of 11+ hours between trains, this can amount to a large potential addition to payroll.

Well at least let me make a proposal; you hire a part-time coach cleaner (or contract it out if possible) and have #19 drop the two rear coaches and #20 back down onto the cars and couple up on the return. The train crew is qualified to make a brake test and I seem to remember the train crew coupling every thing up at B'Ham when the Crescent split to Mobile. If we need a full blown carman then pay the NS for one for two hours. I'm sure the wear and tear on two coaches going over 1,000 miles R/T DAILY adds up and equates to many more dollars than two hours of a carman's time. Seems like someone stopped half way through the puzzle

P.S. IF this is not feasible then why not put these 100 plus seats on the "Weakly" Specials that haven't changed in about 52 weeks or better? :unsure:

I am sure you are familiar with the ATL station. Exactly where do you propose storing the two coaches? Both tracks are active freight tracks and you need a locomotive to move the coaches to another location.

Well, you could cut in a double ended house track off of one of the mains. This could also double as a set out track for Amtrak bad orders and extra equipment moves such as the one I have proposed. And just why do the coaches have to be set out at the station? They used to go with the mail cars some distance from the station. Is there not somewhere south of the station where two cars could be set out by #19 and picked up by #20? Bill ought to have some ideas on this as he is right there. If that fails we could enhance Amtrak's bottom line by selling the 100 plus seats (EACH WAY DAILY) for $25 a piece on the Weakly Specials or run an Atlanta to NOL promo.. Your food revenue would sky rocket as the ride, in both directions, has three meal times which would keep the diner and lounge car busy and solve two problems at one lick~ ridership enhancement and food and beverage revenues.

What Amtrak is doing right now does not make sense; you can throw money figures around all day but you can't justify shutting down two coaches and dragging them around for over 1,000 miles without drawing one nickel in revenue.

This is getting to be similar to "beating a dead horse", but you are making all sorts of assumptions that I don't believe are true. You assume that a $25 price is going to generate 100s of riders each day. Who are these people and what is going to make them travel to New Orleans - even at such a low price and if they are that price sensitive they are probably not going to be diner customers - lounge possibly, but not diner. Three meals in the diner can cost you $50-60, so I don't see these potential customers spending this kind of money. Also, I am not throwing money figures around. There are definite costs associated with moving the equipment and these costs are not small. You mention "cutting in a double ended house track off one of the mains". Who is going to pay for this and why would NS want this done? I am not that familiar with the area south of the station, and perhaps Bill can provide that information, but it still is going to cost $ to move the equipment.

 

[wayman]

Well, you could cut in a double ended house track off of one of the mains. This could also double as a set out track for Amtrak bad orders and extra equipment moves such as the one I have proposed. And just why do the coaches have to be set out at the station? They used to go with the mail cars some distance from the station. Is there not somewhere south of the station where two cars could be set out by #19 and picked up by #20? Bill ought to have some ideas on this as he is right there. If that fails we could enhance Amtrak's bottom line by selling the 100 plus seats (EACH WAY DAILY) for $25 a piece on the Weakly Specials or run an Atlanta to NOL promo.. Your food revenue would sky rocket as the ride, in both directions, has three meal times which would keep the diner and lounge car busy and solve two problems at one lick~ ridership enhancement and food and beverage revenues.What Amtrak is doing right now does not make sense; you can throw money figures around all day but you can't justify shutting down two coaches and dragging them around for over 1,000 miles without drawing one nickel in revenue.

Some months back, I suggested cutting those cars off 19 in ATL and, instead of leaving them there, taking them to JAX by way of Savannah and back in time to meet the next day's 20. The two coach attendants stay with those coaches (based out of NYP), they get cleaned overnight in JAX, the train crew is based in JAX, and a cafe car could be based (with its LSA) in JAX. (Or is there no commissary there?)

At the time, there weren't any logistical red flags thrown by forum members. Just that you'd have to get the necessary congressional and freight railroad permissions, hire a few crew, and find two AmCafes. The switching to put the cars on and off the Crescent is of course handled by the ATL-JAX engine.

 

[had8ley]

The main reason for low ridership ATL-NOL is simply frequency... to me they should start dumping the last 2 coaches at ATL for 20 to pick up going north for nothing more than fuel savings, as long as it didn't require adding time or employees.

Knock, knock~ HELLO Amtrak! Is anybody home?

Yes, I am sure someone is home! The analysis has been done many times and the cost savings on fuel and maintenance is not significant compared to the costs associated with a mechanical crew twice a day to handle the work. Either a contract with NS or additional Amtrak mechanical employees are required. With the separation of 11+ hours between trains, this can amount to a large potential addition to payroll.

Well at least let me make a proposal; you hire a part-time coach cleaner (or contract it out if possible) and have #19 drop the two rear coaches and #20 back down onto the cars and couple up on the return. The train crew is qualified to make a brake test and I seem to remember the train crew coupling every thing up at B'Ham when the Crescent split to Mobile. If we need a full blown carman then pay the NS for one for two hours. I'm sure the wear and tear on two coaches going over 1,000 miles R/T DAILY adds up and equates to many more dollars than two hours of a carman's time. Seems like someone stopped half way through the puzzle

P.S. IF this is not feasible then why not put these 100 plus seats on the "Weakly" Specials that haven't changed in about 52 weeks or better? :unsure:

I am sure you are familiar with the ATL station. Exactly where do you propose storing the two coaches? Both tracks are active freight tracks and you need a locomotive to move the coaches to another location.

Well, you could cut in a double ended house track off of one of the mains. This could also double as a set out track for Amtrak bad orders and extra equipment moves such as the one I have proposed. And just why do the coaches have to be set out at the station? They used to go with the mail cars some distance from the station. Is there not somewhere south of the station where two cars could be set out by #19 and picked up by #20? Bill ought to have some ideas on this as he is right there. If that fails we could enhance Amtrak's bottom line by selling the 100 plus seats (EACH WAY DAILY) for $25 a piece on the Weakly Specials or run an Atlanta to NOL promo.. Your food revenue would sky rocket as the ride, in both directions, has three meal times which would keep the diner and lounge car busy and solve two problems at one lick~ ridership enhancement and food and beverage revenues.

What Amtrak is doing right now does not make sense; you can throw money figures around all day but you can't justify shutting down two coaches and dragging them around for over 1,000 miles without drawing one nickel in revenue.

This is getting to be similar to "beating a dead horse", but you are making all sorts of assumptions that I don't believe are true. You assume that a $25 price is going to generate 100s of riders each day. Who are these people and what is going to make them travel to New Orleans - even at such a low price and if they are that price sensitive they are probably not going to be diner customers - lounge possibly, but not diner. Three meals in the diner can cost you $50-60, so I don't see these potential customers spending this kind of money. Also, I am not throwing money figures around. There are definite costs associated with moving the equipment and these costs are not small. You mention "cutting in a double ended house track off one of the mains". Who is going to pay for this and why would NS want this done? I am not that familiar with the area south of the station, and perhaps Bill can provide that information, but it still is going to cost $ to move the equipment.

I'm not assuming anything other than if you don't try you're spinning your wheels by closing off two coaches each and every day in each direction. I don't think for a minute that 100's will be lining up to ride, (unless Amtrak does a bang up job of promoting these empty seats), but this seems to be a very clever smoke screen not to promote the obvious. If you just get 50 extra people to ride in each direction every day then you have a minimum of $2500 in added revenue without doing anything but lifting tickets. Even if they don't buy a bag of chips the entire trip you've utilized equipment for which it was intended. Granted, they may not all might do the diner thing but if you sit back and make assumptions that may or may not transpire then you're back to square one with nothing accomplished and nothing gained. The potential rolls daily in both directions; I honestly wonder if Amtrak will ever utilize it.

 

[haolerider]

Well, you could cut in a double ended house track off of one of the mains. This could also double as a set out track for Amtrak bad orders and extra equipment moves such as the one I have proposed. And just why do the coaches have to be set out at the station? They used to go with the mail cars some distance from the station. Is there not somewhere south of the station where two cars could be set out by #19 and picked up by #20? Bill ought to have some ideas on this as he is right there. If that fails we could enhance Amtrak's bottom line by selling the 100 plus seats (EACH WAY DAILY) for $25 a piece on the Weakly Specials or run an Atlanta to NOL promo.. Your food revenue would sky rocket as the ride, in both directions, has three meal times which would keep the diner and lounge car busy and solve two problems at one lick~ ridership enhancement and food and beverage revenues.What Amtrak is doing right now does not make sense; you can throw money figures around all day but you can't justify shutting down two coaches and dragging them around for over 1,000 miles without drawing one nickel in revenue.

Some months back, I suggested cutting those cars off 19 in ATL and, instead of leaving them there, taking them to JAX by way of Savannah and back in time to meet the next day's 20. The two coach attendants stay with those coaches (based out of NYP), they get cleaned overnight in JAX, the train crew is based in JAX, and a cafe car could be based (with its LSA) in JAX. (Or is there no commissary there?)

At the time, there weren't any logistical red flags thrown by forum members. Just that you'd have to get the necessary congressional and freight railroad permissions, hire a few crew, and find two AmCafes. The switching to put the cars on and off the Crescent is of course handled by the ATL-JAX engine.

There is generally only one coach attendant on 19/20 - unless there is sufficient ridership to justify an extra. The crewbase is in New Orleans and not New York, and there is no crew base in Atlanta - nor any commisary in either Atlanta or Jacksonville. The use of the freight lines from Atlanta to Jacksonville is a major issue. There has been a debate in Atlanta about running commuter service between Atlanta and Macon, Ga and NS has not given permission to use their track even for that short run. To the best of my knowledge, there is no ability to service the coaches/train in Jacksonville, but I might be wrong about that. I firmly believe there is adaquate business to fill the train, but the supporting infrastructure is not there at this time.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

The main reason for low ridership ATL-NOL is simply frequency... to me they should start dumping the last 2 coaches at ATL for 20 to pick up going north for nothing more than fuel savings, as long as it didn't require adding time or employees.

Knock, knock~ HELLO Amtrak! Is anybody home?

Yes, I am sure someone is home! The analysis has been done many times and the cost savings on fuel and maintenance is not significant compared to the costs associated with a mechanical crew twice a day to handle the work. Either a contract with NS or additional Amtrak mechanical employees are required. With the separation of 11+ hours between trains, this can amount to a large potential addition to payroll.

Well at least let me make a proposal; you hire a part-time coach cleaner (or contract it out if possible) and have #19 drop the two rear coaches and #20 back down onto the cars and couple up on the return. The train crew is qualified to make a brake test and I seem to remember the train crew coupling every thing up at B'Ham when the Crescent split to Mobile. If we need a full blown carman then pay the NS for one for two hours. I'm sure the wear and tear on two coaches going over 1,000 miles R/T DAILY adds up and equates to many more dollars than two hours of a carman's time. Seems like someone stopped half way through the puzzle

P.S. IF this is not feasible then why not put these 100 plus seats on the "Weakly" Specials that haven't changed in about 52 weeks or better? :unsure:

I am sure you are familiar with the ATL station. Exactly where do you propose storing the two coaches? Both tracks are active freight tracks and you need a locomotive to move the coaches to another location.

Well, you could cut in a double ended house track off of one of the mains. This could also double as a set out track for Amtrak bad orders and extra equipment moves such as the one I have proposed. And just why do the coaches have to be set out at the station? They used to go with the mail cars some distance from the station. Is there not somewhere south of the station where two cars could be set out by #19 and picked up by #20? Bill ought to have some ideas on this as he is right there. If that fails we could enhance Amtrak's bottom line by selling the 100 plus seats (EACH WAY DAILY) for $25 a piece on the Weakly Specials or run an Atlanta to NOL promo.. Your food revenue would sky rocket as the ride, in both directions, has three meal times which would keep the diner and lounge car busy and solve two problems at one lick~ ridership enhancement and food and beverage revenues.

What Amtrak is doing right now does not make sense; you can throw money figures around all day but you can't justify shutting down two coaches and dragging them around for over 1,000 miles without drawing one nickel in revenue.

This is getting to be similar to "beating a dead horse", but you are making all sorts of assumptions that I don't believe are true. You assume that a $25 price is going to generate 100s of riders each day. Who are these people and what is going to make them travel to New Orleans - even at such a low price and if they are that price sensitive they are probably not going to be diner customers - lounge possibly, but not diner. Three meals in the diner can cost you $50-60, so I don't see these potential customers spending this kind of money. Also, I am not throwing money figures around. There are definite costs associated with moving the equipment and these costs are not small. You mention "cutting in a double ended house track off one of the mains". Who is going to pay for this and why would NS want this done? I am not that familiar with the area south of the station, and perhaps Bill can provide that information, but it still is going to cost $ to move the equipment.

When #19 would arrive in the morning, the set out cars would be taken north of the station back paralleling I-85.At a point back there, going under the freeway and back out, they would be cleaned and turned. Then they would sit in the yards all day, north of the station ("railroad north" that is , it is really east-west through there).

Then, that night, about 30 -40minutes before the train was due to arrive from NOL, the set out cars would be slowly taken back south to the station. There they would pause for a few minutes for the sleeping car attendents and other crew to get on board.The noise of that would inevitably confuse the waitng passengers upstairs, thinking that was their train.

Then the cars would be taken on south of the station, crossing over I-75 and the track would veer to the left to downtown,off the mainline from NOL, which I suppose was the track which was used for years to get trains from the suburban station to the large long since demolished stations downtown.Keep in mind that I did not grow up in Atlanta when there were more trains, tracks, etc.

Anyway they would sit there and wait for #20 to come on by from NOL to stop at the station. Then the set out cars were slowly backed on to the rear of the train.

What is key here is to realize the little station sitting here now was merely a suburban stop when it was built. For all those years trains leaving the suburban stop (known variously as Brookwood Station, or Peachtree Street station)obviously had to get downtown to Terminal Station for the major stop.And that is how they did it.

In my time there were six trains a day on that route. The Crescent (which then went via Montgomery and Mobile, rather than Birmingham) and the Piedmont Limited left the sububan stop and veered left to downtown and from there direct south to Montgomery. Also the Peach Queen, the Washingon Atlanta New Orleans Special and a nameless local did the same thing.

A little different ws the Southerner, a train which has much in common with today's Crescent. It went from ATL to NOL via BHM and Meridian. When it left the suburban station, it, too, veered left and went downtown. But when it departed downtown it backed all the way back to the mainline you are used to today and then headed south.

When the downtown stations were torn down it actually saved a chunk of time for the remaining train to go straight through on the mainline and not all that cumbersomeness to get downtown. Of course getting downtown was not cumbersome for the other five trains.