A Texas to Colorado Train

[birdy]

Colorado just is too isolated, I think. If you look at a map, its the most isolated of our big cities. Its very easy to fly into their nice new airport, and that is what most people do. I just don't see slow speed LD trains having a significant future anywhere.

Well Phoenix and Salt Lake City are pretty isolated, not many people want to pay to see the desertso flhying there might be better but Denver has THE scenery, hence the CZ is very popular!(not to men tion

the EB which goes nowhere near a big city between Seattle and the Twin Cities!!Lots of folks use the

train since there are no airports nor even roads in some cases to get to the city!You could look it up

as Casey Stengel ised to say!@ :lol:

No, Denver is really by itself. Salt Lake City is about 350 miles to Las Vegas, which is in the HSR sweet spot. Phoenix is actually unique in that it is in the HSR sweet spot for no less than 5 major metropolitan areas: Los Angeles, San Diego, Las Vegas, El Paso and even Albuquerque. Of course there is absolutely no Amtrak of any kind for Phoenix nor any plan to have any, let alone any discussion of HSR. No discussion, nothing.

Those LD trains might be successful by various measures but they aren't ever going to be more than niche operations.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Colorado just is too isolated, I think. If you look at a map, its the most isolated of our big cities. Its very easy to fly into their nice new airport, and that is what most people do. I just don't see slow speed LD trains having a significant future anywhere.

Well Phoenix and Salt Lake City are pretty isolated, not many people want to pay to see the desertso flhying there might be better but Denver has THE scenery, hence the CZ is very popular!(not to men tion

the EB which goes nowhere near a big city between Seattle and the Twin Cities!!Lots of folks use the

train since there are no airports nor even roads in some cases to get to the city!You could look it up

as Casey Stengel ised to say!@ :lol:

No, Denver is really by itself. Salt Lake City is about 350 miles to Las Vegas, which is in the HSR sweet spot. Phoenix is actually unique in that it is in the HSR sweet spot for no less than 5 major metropolitan areas: Los Angeles, San Diego, Las Vegas, El Paso and even Albuquerque. Of course there is absolutely no Amtrak of any kind for Phoenix nor any plan to have any, let alone any discussion of HSR. No discussion, nothing.

Those LD trains might be successful by various measures but they aren't ever going to be more than niche operations.

Well Ill disagree, actuallt these trains make a profit for Amtrak and are more popular all the time,check the reservation systemand try to book a sleeper to SEA or PDX w/o doing it months in advance!Two of the

prettiest rides in America, Denver needs a train south, its not that hard to do as various pont out!

If Im wrong, Ill defer to the "experts", Ive driven many times from Texas and NM to Colorado and

a train this way would be heavily ridden by folks in the winter and summer from Texas!!!!(Hi speed Rail ids not

practical of course from the south except maybe to Col,orado Springs !

 

[haolerider]

Colorado just is too isolated, I think. If you look at a map, its the most isolated of our big cities. Its very easy to fly into their nice new airport, and that is what most people do. I just don't see slow speed LD trains having a significant future anywhere.

Well Phoenix and Salt Lake City are pretty isolated, not many people want to pay to see the desertso flhying there might be better but Denver has THE scenery, hence the CZ is very popular!(not to men tion

the EB which goes nowhere near a big city between Seattle and the Twin Cities!!Lots of folks use the

train since there are no airports nor even roads in some cases to get to the city!You could look it up

as Casey Stengel ised to say!@ :lol:

No, Denver is really by itself. Salt Lake City is about 350 miles to Las Vegas, which is in the HSR sweet spot. Phoenix is actually unique in that it is in the HSR sweet spot for no less than 5 major metropolitan areas: Los Angeles, San Diego, Las Vegas, El Paso and even Albuquerque. Of course there is absolutely no Amtrak of any kind for Phoenix nor any plan to have any, let alone any discussion of HSR. No discussion, nothing.

Those LD trains might be successful by various measures but they aren't ever going to be more than niche operations.

Well Ill disagree, actuallt these trains make a profit for Amtrak and are more popular all the time,check the reservation systemand try to book a sleeper to SEA or PDX w/o doing it months in advance!Two of the

prettiest rides in America, Denver needs a train south, its not that hard to do as various pont out!

If Im wrong, Ill defer to the "experts", Ive driven many times from Texas and NM to Colorado and

a train this way would be heavily ridden by folks in the winter and summer from Texas!!!!(Hi speed Rail ids not

practical of course from the south except maybe to Col,orado Springs !

Where you get the idea that these trains make a profit for Amtrak? Just because you may not be able to book a trip on the day that you want is no indication that there is a profit being made, it just means that there is not enough equipment to meet the demand on that particular day. Amtrak publishes facts and figures that you can acess that show profit and loss and I don't recall the long distance trains making profits - with the possible exception of the Auto Train and when you allocate the overhead expenses that disappears as well.

 

[McDougal]

Every time I have to take an airplane anywhere, I say to myself, "I'll never travel again"! Besides the long waits, being filed into the cabin like cattle and being stuffed in a seat that was built for children, it's not so bad, until you get stuck in a holding pattern and wait an hour for an opportunity to land. Then again, there's the lost or damaged lugage, the $8.00 hot dogs, $10.00 soda pops and cramps in your legs. Flying is ok. I'ld pay twice the price of an airline ticket if I could take a train from Texas to Denver! Mack in Amarillo

 

[printman2000]

Hey Mack. I also live in Amarillo. Good to know there are other Amtrak interested people here.

 

[Nathanael]

Every time I have to take an airplane anywhere, I say to myself, "I'll never travel again"! Besides the long waits, being filed into the cabin like cattle and being stuffed in a seat that was built for children, it's not so bad, until you get stuck in a holding pattern and wait an hour for an opportunity to land. Then again, there's the lost or damaged lugage, the $8.00 hot dogs, $10.00 soda pops and cramps in your legs. Flying is ok. I'ld pay twice the price of an airline ticket if I could take a train from Texas to Denver! Mack in Amarillo

Hey Mack. I also live in Amarillo. Good to know there are other Amtrak interested people here.

To the Amarillo residents:

It seems very likely that the Southwest Chief (Chicago-Kansas City-Albuquerque-LA) is going to have to be rerouted through Wichita and Amarillo in a couple of years, due to lack of any source of funding for the current route.

However, there seems to be no campaign right now to have a STATION in Amarillo. Certainly there have been no newspaper articles, and no local politicians looking into it. It might be worth starting a campaign! Given Amtrak's funding shortage, it is quite imaginable that the train could pass through Amarillo without stopping. There does seem to be a campaign starting to get the station in Wichita back. (And Wichita is already campaigning to get connected to Oklahoma City.) If you can get local support together for an Amarillo station -- perhaps funding for a design study, or a local funding match for station construction -- this might really help Amarillo's chances of getting Amtrak service.

It wouldn't get you to Denver initially... but having a station at all is the first step. It proves that people in Amarillo will ride trains. If the station is placed right so that trains can easily access all the train routes out of Amarillo, it can then be used for future service to Denver (and/or Fort Worth and/or Lubbock), once advocates manage to get those up and running.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Well if the Rocky Mountain Rail Authority has its way, there will be 220mph rail service from Trinidad to Cheyenne by 2022. Then New Mexico has expressed interest in a rail link from El Paso to Trinidad via Railrunner. El Paso-Cheyenne could happen, but its a distance away. The website for RMRA is: Colorado High Speed Rail The site is hard to navigate but the formal study which i summarized here (5.8 billion $, finished by 2022) is to be released this month. The reason we don't have train service now is the existing line from Pueblo to Denver is really congested with coal trains.

I doubt that HSR line will get built.

Try the service gaps in Ohio, or South Dakota...

Ohio does need more service, but South Dakota didn't have much trains anyway and the only through trains operated by Milwaukee Road went on the northern edge. Trains went to Rapid City but ended in a stub, not through the state.

cry me a river, atlanta only has two trains a day.

Houston has less and it's bigger. Phoenix has none and it's even bigger. No reason to cry a river for that.

Not that this is optimal, but there's continuing discussion about extending the Hearland Flyer to Kansas City. If that happened, at least you could hit the SWC from your location. Or go west on the SWC and then the connecting bus from Raton?

Huge detour, though.

This would be great, because we really do need a western north south connection.

Agreed. Same with MSP-KCY-DAL and CHI-MIA.

 

[BNSFboy]

Colorado, last time I checked, is served by 4 trains daily. Why is this a service gap compared to various other states I could mention?

FOUR trains???? The California Zephyr serves the state, and that's it.

Don't forget the Southwest Chief they might have got the other two trains from there.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Colorado, last time I checked, is served by 4 trains daily. Why is this a service gap compared to various other states I could mention?

FOUR trains???? The California Zephyr serves the state, and that's it.

Don't forget the Southwest Chief they might have got the other two trains from there.

I think that's what they meant, but the SWC is probably going to leave soon.

 

[AlanB]

Guys,

Please take note that most of the posts that you're responding to are now 3 years old.

 

[manchacrr]

Colorado, last time I checked, is served by 4 trains daily. Why is this a service gap compared to various other states I could mention?

FOUR trains???? The California Zephyr serves the state, and that's it. Unless we're counting tourist trains, which I don't think we should. It also used to have the tail end of the Pioneer route when that left from Denver and crossed Wyoming, but that's more of an honorary mention since it only stopped in Denver and Greeley.

I believe you are forgetting the two daily trains (one in each direction) known as the Southwest Chief, which stops in Lamar, La Junta, & Trinidad.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Guys,

Please take note that most of the posts that you're responding to are now 3 years old.

Oh, right!

 

[henryj]

Guys,

Please take note that most of the posts that you're responding to are now 3 years old.

Oh, right!

It may be 3 years old, but it's still a valid topic and has been for all of Amtrak's 40 years of existence. By the way, this so called congested route is this weekend hosting the UP 150 Express with engine 844.

 

[printman2000]

Every time I have to take an airplane anywhere, I say to myself, "I'll never travel again"! Besides the long waits, being filed into the cabin like cattle and being stuffed in a seat that was built for children, it's not so bad, until you get stuck in a holding pattern and wait an hour for an opportunity to land. Then again, there's the lost or damaged lugage, the $8.00 hot dogs, $10.00 soda pops and cramps in your legs. Flying is ok. I'ld pay twice the price of an airline ticket if I could take a train from Texas to Denver! Mack in Amarillo

Hey Mack. I also live in Amarillo. Good to know there are other Amtrak interested people here.

To the Amarillo residents:

It seems very likely that the Southwest Chief (Chicago-Kansas City-Albuquerque-LA) is going to have to be rerouted through Wichita and Amarillo in a couple of years, due to lack of any source of funding for the current route.

However, there seems to be no campaign right now to have a STATION in Amarillo. Certainly there have been no newspaper articles, and no local politicians looking into it. It might be worth starting a campaign! Given Amtrak's funding shortage, it is quite imaginable that the train could pass through Amarillo without stopping. There does seem to be a campaign starting to get the station in Wichita back. (And Wichita is already campaigning to get connected to Oklahoma City.) If you can get local support together for an Amarillo station -- perhaps funding for a design study, or a local funding match for station construction -- this might really help Amarillo's chances of getting Amtrak service.

It wouldn't get you to Denver initially... but having a station at all is the first step. It proves that people in Amarillo will ride trains. If the station is placed right so that trains can easily access all the train routes out of Amarillo, it can then be used for future service to Denver (and/or Fort Worth and/or Lubbock), once advocates manage to get those up and running.

I think I have said this before, it is too early. Nothing will be done and no one will be interested in doing anything until it is more certain that the train will come through here. While we here might feel that it is certain, others will not even consider spending a dime until they know it is certain. And I don't blame them.

 

[AlanB]

It may be 3 years old, but it's still a valid topic and has been for all of Amtrak's 40 years of existence.

It's not a matter of the topic being valid or not. It's a matter of people answering questions that were asked 3 years ago by people who no longer visit the board and won't see the answers.

I have no problem with people discussing the topic, which is why the post that revived the topic wasn't deleted. I just don't want people to be wasting time answering questions that no longer need to be answered.

 

[Nathanael]

I think I have said this before, it is too early. Nothing will be done and no one will be interested in doing anything until it is more certain that the train will come through here. While we here might feel that it is certain, others will not even consider spending a dime until they know it is certain. And I don't blame them.

That's not a good attitude. Maybe nobody will put up any money yet, but if you get a group of people together saying "Well, we'd LIKE train service", and start figuring out where to put the station, you'll be far, far ahead if the train DOES get rerouted. People will be primed to consider the possibilty, and when the rerouting becomes certain, they may kick into gear.

Otherwise, the train could start running through Amarillo, and it could still take 20-30 years, or longer, before you get service, as people start to go "Huh, isn't it odd that the passenger train runs through here and doesn't stop. Oh well, I guess that's the way life is." A lack of local advocacy is a good way to get nothing. Does that sound like a nice outcome?

Places with "oh, let's not bother to do anything now" attitudes have been the cities which do NOT get train service, perhaps not ever. Places with "We want it now" attitudes have been the ones which get train service in 10-15 years (with the delays being quite frustrating to the advocates). Which attitude is preferable?

 

[henryj]

Both the Santa Fe depot and harvey house and the FW&D depots are still in existence in Amarillo. Unfortunately neither is positioned to service both routes. BNSF has done a lot of track relocation in the area of the crossing. Because the BNSF owns both routes and another route north and uses the tracks directionally, the only place you could locate a new depot would be where the two tracks parallel each other somewhere around NE 3rd Ave and Bull Road between the tracks. But since service on the ex FW&D between DFW and Colorado is years away if ever, just use the old Santa Fe depot for now. Amtrak only needs a small part of it. The rest is a restaurant, I believe.

 

[BNSFboy]

. But since service on the ex FW&D between DFW and Colorado is years away if ever, just use the old Santa Fe depot for now. Amtrak only needs a small part of it. The rest is a restaurant, I believe.

Its not a restaurant anymore it is now an auction house.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I think I have said this before, it is too early. Nothing will be done and no one will be interested in doing anything until it is more certain that the train will come through here. While we here might feel that it is certain, others will not even consider spending a dime until they know it is certain. And I don't blame them.

That's not a good attitude. Maybe nobody will put up any money yet, but if you get a group of people together saying "Well, we'd LIKE train service", and start figuring out where to put the station, you'll be far, far ahead if the train DOES get rerouted. People will be primed to consider the possibilty, and when the rerouting becomes certain, they may kick into gear.

Otherwise, the train could start running through Amarillo, and it could still take 20-30 years, or longer, before you get service, as people start to go "Huh, isn't it odd that the passenger train runs through here and doesn't stop. Oh well, I guess that's the way life is." A lack of local advocacy is a good way to get nothing. Does that sound like a nice outcome?

Places with "oh, let's not bother to do anything now" attitudes have been the cities which do NOT get train service, perhaps not ever. Places with "We want it now" attitudes have been the ones which get train service in 10-15 years (with the delays being quite frustrating to the advocates). Which attitude is preferable?

I agree with this. You got to be active, not passive!

 

[FriskyFL]

Colorado, last time I checked, is served by 4 trains daily. Why is this a service gap compared to various other states I could mention?

FOUR trains???? The California Zephyr serves the state, and that's it. Unless we're counting tourist trains, which I don't think we should. It also used to have the tail end of the Pioneer route when that left from Denver and crossed Wyoming, but that's more of an honorary mention since it only stopped in Denver and Greeley.

Don't forget, the SWC still serves three Colorado cities.

 

[Nathanael]

FYI, the hard part on getting a station is a *platform*. The rules on new platforms are very stringent, and it's basically impossible to just reuse one of the ancient, out-of-service platforms. (Platforms in continuous use were grandfathered.) In particular, platforms on curves are strongly disapproved of.

This is why it doesn't always make sense to "just use X building for now". You want to build the *platform* in the correct location so that you don't have to build the platform twice. There are, however, some places which have built the platform and "just used X building for now" even though X building is a couple of blocks walk away. Although, sometimes it seems to be wisest to go ahead and build a platform even if it's eventually going to end up in the wrong location for additional service, if that's going to get you a working station soonest and people are willing to pay for it.

Be prepared for the possibility that BNSF or the FRA will want platforms on a newly built passenger-only siding. Or BNSF may want the platforms to be directly on the mainline. It would be good to have multiple options sketched out so that you can follow the 'path of least resistance' when the time comes.

 

[BNSFboy]

FYI, the hard part on getting a station is a *platform*. The rules on new platforms are very stringent, and it's basically impossible to just reuse one of the ancient, out-of-service platforms. (Platforms in continuous use were grandfathered.) In particular, platforms on curves are strongly disapproved of.

This is why it doesn't always make sense to "just use X building for now". You want to build the *platform* in the correct location so that you don't have to build the platform twice. There are, however, some places which have built the platform and "just used X building for now" even though X building is a couple of blocks walk away. Although, sometimes it seems to be wisest to go ahead and build a platform even if it's eventually going to end up in the wrong location for additional service, if that's going to get you a working station soonest and people are willing to pay for it.

Be prepared for the possibility that BNSF or the FRA will want platforms on a newly built passenger-only siding. Or BNSF may want the platforms to be directly on the mainline. It would be good to have multiple options sketched out so that you can follow the 'path of least resistance' when the time comes.

For Amarillo they might want it on the main line. It would make it easier to switch out crews for there trains on a platform then on ballast.

 

[henryj]

FYI, the hard part on getting a station is a *platform*. The rules on new platforms are very stringent, and it's basically impossible to just reuse one of the ancient, out-of-service platforms. (Platforms in continuous use were grandfathered.) In particular, platforms on curves are strongly disapproved of.

This is why it doesn't always make sense to "just use X building for now". You want to build the *platform* in the correct location so that you don't have to build the platform twice. There are, however, some places which have built the platform and "just used X building for now" even though X building is a couple of blocks walk away. Although, sometimes it seems to be wisest to go ahead and build a platform even if it's eventually going to end up in the wrong location for additional service, if that's going to get you a working station soonest and people are willing to pay for it.

Be prepared for the possibility that BNSF or the FRA will want platforms on a newly built passenger-only siding. Or BNSF may want the platforms to be directly on the mainline. It would be good to have multiple options sketched out so that you can follow the 'path of least resistance' when the time comes.

This SWC reroute is going to be a mess based on this commentary if you can't use existing stations and platforms. And the Amarillo Santa Fe depot is on a curve and the tracks have been moved away from the platform and it's fenced off from the tracks anyway. For the reroute you are looking at a minimum of 7 stations, Wichita, Wellington, Waynoka, Pampa, Amarillo, Clovis and Belen. That's probably seven million just for platforms alone in addition to the station replacements or renovations or additional tracks. I have no way to guess at the costs but Amtrak is either going to have to spend millions or the towns will or the train will just run through without stopping. All of these towns appear to still have their historic Santa Fe depots. If they can't be grandfathered in or successfully modified, I visualize lots of 'amshacks'.

 

[AlanB]

For the reroute you are looking at a minimum of 7 stations, Wichita, Wellington, Waynoka, Pampa, Amarillo, Clovis and Belen.

Belen will never become a stop for the train. It's way too hard to shoe horn anything in there in part to the existing Rail Runner station and the BNSF yard opposite; not to mention that the interlocking would prevent the train from using the Rail Runner station. So with all that going against it, I'm pretty sure that they'll just have people double back from Albuquerque on RailRunner since it's so close anyhow.

 

[cirdan]

I think I have said this before, it is too early. Nothing will be done and no one will be interested in doing anything until it is more certain that the train will come through here. While we here might feel that it is certain, others will not even consider spending a dime until they know it is certain. And I don't blame them.

Things don't just happen by themselves. In politics, things happen because sufficient numbers of people want them to happen and petition those in power until it does happen.

So the question here is, does Amarillo want Amtrak service? Or does it not care?