JeffW
Train Attendant
Gotcha--this makes sense. No problem about cross-engineer experimentation. Some of my best friends are mechanical or chemical engineers who try to be structural or electrical engineers...
ACS-64 Heads Up
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Ryan
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They do, I'm not sure if that's on all 4 axles or not. Here's an Amfleet set with more mystery wheels in the background:
Philly_Train_Trip_16 by Ryan Stavely, on Flickr
ScottRu
Service Attendant
Great stuff, folks. Thanks for posting.
Jeff,
To be fair, he's a structural engineer who worked for a major power company, in fact the one that supplies Amtrak most of its power south of NYP. So I've no doubt he learned a thing or two about power.
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Coming through Maryland; looks like she's right on time. A pity the weather is crappy:
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Ziv
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I am glad Amtrak is getting new locomotives, especially given that they are rated up to 125 mph and, I believe, may be/possibly, upgraded to speeds up to 135 mph in the future, but they sure didn't build these things for their looks... The P42DC's are no beauties but they have a certain gravitas, even if they are only rated up to 110 mph, I think. I am an Amtrak tyro, so be gentle if my assumptions about the two locomotives speeds are wrong. ;-)
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Nathanael
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The AC used for induction motors is actually *variable frequency* -- in fact, varying the frequency is how the train is sped up and slowed down.
All the other AC electricity you see in the world is *fixed frequency* AC. There are various devices to convert one fixed frequency to another, but to generate variable-frequency AC the only practical method is to start with DC.
The ACS-64s will be limited to 125 mph max speeds in operational service. That is the max speed of the Amfleet and future Viewliner cars. Any mention of 135 mph you see in specs for the ACS-64 is the maximum overspeed they are capable of and will be tested at for stability, but they won't run above a sustained 125 mph in revenue service.
Much of the reason for the attention paid to the ACS-64 is one) hey, new locomotives! and two) they are first new rolling stock equipment Amtrak has acquired in over 10 years, minus the AutoTrain autoracks and miscellaneous support equipment. Ten plus years is too long to go between equipment purchases to keep a fleet at an acceptable median age.
Ziv
Conductor
afigg, thanks for the correct info regarding top speeds for the ACS-64. I had seen the 135 mph number tossed around and I thought, incorrectly, that it may end up being a top speed in the future. I am pretty happy just seeing new locomotives that could do British Rail InterCity speeds, i.e. 125 mph or 201 kph.
I would love to see Amtrak doing 220 mph but given the facts on the ground, maybe getting a substantial portion of the western LD routes up to 125 mph is as good as it gets for the next 10 years. Getting the average (for the entire trip) speed of many of the western routes up above 75 mph would be a huge achievement. Increase the average speed, then increase the amount of sleeper cars, then increase the amount of trips per day, and increase the speed again... Repeat if possible. It would be cool if it would happen, but it would probably require a long term, guaranteed revenue stream, which is hard to envision.
I would love to see Amtrak doing 220 mph but given the facts on the ground, maybe getting a substantial portion of the western LD routes up to 125 mph is as good as it gets for the next 10 years. Getting the average (for the entire trip) speed of many of the western routes up above 75 mph would be a huge achievement. Increase the average speed, then increase the amount of sleeper cars, then increase the amount of trips per day, and increase the speed again... Repeat if possible. It would be cool if it would happen, but it would probably require a long term, guaranteed revenue stream, which is hard to envision.
Agree with all your increases in performance... but maybe the most important one is missing: increase ridership - without passengers, there will be lots of more empty than full trains, racking up significant losses, and that'll spell the end of passenger travel. Need to sell America/Americans on the notion that train travel isn't quaint and ah so very nineteenth-centuryish. Suspect after a first ride that'll be easier, but getting them onto that first ride is where the rub lies... maybe a national ride a train day (with very cheap tickets)
Ryan
Court Jester
Not really a problem on the corridor, the riders are there, but the capacity is not.
NE933
Conductor
afigg on July 1, 2013 2:25PM, said:
"Ten plus years is too long to go between equipment purchases to keep a fleet at an acceptable median age."
Then at this rate, in 2023 I guess we'll be riding goats and camels.
"Ten plus years is too long to go between equipment purchases to keep a fleet at an acceptable median age."
Then at this rate, in 2023 I guess we'll be riding goats and camels.
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That's heartening to hear. What about outside the NEC?
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Amtrak's most profitable routes are the regional intercity commuter routes, ie, the NEC, and California's Surfliner, Cap Corridor, and San Joaquin (with the last three being operated by Caltrans. It's the cross country routes that are more controversial in terms of sustainability and ridership demand. However, it is a slow and steady shift, as airline prices continue to skyrocket. Give it a few more decades and perhaps we'll see a more expansive Amtrak system.
jis
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Sorry, none of the California Corridors are anywhere near what can be remotely characterized as profitable, using the normal meaning of the word, even if only above rail costs are considered.
Frankly airline fares will have to rise at warp speed for real long distance travel to shift appreciably to rail from air. Before that net amount of LD travel will actually go down reflecting the cost of travel rather than shift to rail for LD. Predominant group of leisure travelers by air do so because they want to get to their destination quickly so that they can partake in whatever they want to do at the destination, rather than spend time getting there and back. How many people would rather spend their 3 days of vacation riding a train instead of being with Grandma or on the beach or amusement park, the final destination?
On the matter of converting significant portions of the LD system to 125mph or getting the average speed of LD trains upto 75mph or above, in the next 10 years.... the chances of that happening are between 0% and 0.0001% at best, unfortunately.
Frankly airline fares will have to rise at warp speed for real long distance travel to shift appreciably to rail from air. Before that net amount of LD travel will actually go down reflecting the cost of travel rather than shift to rail for LD. Predominant group of leisure travelers by air do so because they want to get to their destination quickly so that they can partake in whatever they want to do at the destination, rather than spend time getting there and back. How many people would rather spend their 3 days of vacation riding a train instead of being with Grandma or on the beach or amusement park, the final destination?
On the matter of converting significant portions of the LD system to 125mph or getting the average speed of LD trains upto 75mph or above, in the next 10 years.... the chances of that happening are between 0% and 0.0001% at best, unfortunately.
In the scheme of things, I wonder how much price has to do with/would have to do with speed of migration from flying cattle cars to trains... maybe projecting on my part, but with let's say 2m air miles under the belt (read: suffered), the notion of taking the time, sitting back, spending time with pleasant people and ascribing to the notion that a trip is as much about the journey/process, as the destination... this last CZ trip was intentionally just that: yes I could have gotten from SAC to LNK, and within a hundred to couple hundred dollars of the train and 24 hrs more quickly... but with a whole lot less pleasure. I liked idea, intended to partake of the notion of: just unplugging and spending the extra 24 hrs watching the scenery roll by at human speeds, having room to stretch out (at 6'1" flying cattle cars (FCC) are less than friendly) and exit rush rush mode for just a bit. ... so, yes there is a price difference btwn FCCs and trains, and it might be in that I get something back from the train experience; whereas with the FCC: yes I do get from a to b, but at best that's all I can say (though all too often my luggage goes from a to c). I wonder when others will come to appreciate such? Or look at trains as a positive alternative. Maybe that's part of the path to increased ridership??
jis
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I was not talking of those few of us who enjoy riding trains. In my experience talking to a lot of people, even some who enjoy riding trains occasionally, very few view the journey as an experience thing too much. They'd rather get it over with ASAP and be where they finally want to be and get on with whatever they plan to do at the destination, than spend days getting there. I don;t believe that fact of life is likely to change for a vast majority of folks. Besides all the carping about how unpleasant air travel is, is not yet reflected in ridership trends. All the leveling off of and marginal reduction in ridership has been significantly due to airlines consciously reducing inventory to raise airfares to a sustainable level, and that has not been reflected in a one for one increase in train ridership. Even now trains do have considerable availability, though not in sleepers, even on the day of travel or within a few days of travel. That does not indicate an overwhelming shift to anything, either train, or for that matter even cars.
My last trip to South Bend and back was intentionally by train for reasons you mention, but it was one I could barely afford in terms of time off from work. I often do weekends in Florida, which is impossible to do using ground transport of any sort without taking days off.
My last trip to South Bend and back was intentionally by train for reasons you mention, but it was one I could barely afford in terms of time off from work. I often do weekends in Florida, which is impossible to do using ground transport of any sort without taking days off.
jis - I have to agree with your observations... but from what I hear all too often from those that rush to their destinations and back, all too often, the destinations don't prove to be all that relaxing/pleasureable/fail to live up to expectations... wonder if more didn't learn that the process/journey could be as pleasurable or more so than the destination, that more wouldn't incorporate more pleasurable modes of transportation, albeit slower ones into their mindset.
Acela150
Super Buff
Per a Photo on Twitter, 602 is at the Wilmington Shops. Most likely as of last night.
Yep, it's at Wilmington Shops
http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130703/NEWS1501/307030036/Amtrak-offers-peek-new-train-engine-undergoes-tests
http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130703/NEWS1501/307030036/Amtrak-offers-peek-new-train-engine-undergoes-tests
Ryan
Court Jester
And they used 42 to bring it up! Curse you Amtrak for making that move at night!!! 
NE933
Conductor
Please be careful with that incantation, Amtrak has enough curses hovering over it as it is.And they used 42 to bring it up! Curse you Amtrak for making that move at night!!!
jis
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42? From Pittsburgh? At night? :unsure: Perhaps you meant 66 - the devil to carry the curse along?And they used 42 to bring it up! Curse you Amtrak for making that move at night!!!
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