ACS-64 Heads Up

[Acela150]

Really? That's interesting. Seems like a waste to me, to not use perfectly good catenary. Then again, the next time a bunch of catenary gets ripped down, it's smooth sailing for MARC.

Amtrak charges a hefty fee for Non-Amtrak RR's to use their power AFAIK. That combined with as Ryan said the poor rebuild program for the AEM-7's that Amtrak performed it's more cost effective for MARC to use diesels.

 

[Ryan]

I agree that it's a waste, but I can't blame them given the utter crap they've had for electric motors.

 

[William W.]

That's too bad. No one likes unnecessary diesel exhaust, haha.

 

[afigg]

That's too bad. No one likes unnecessary diesel exhaust, haha.

Someone should search this thread and count the number of times the subject of MARC dumping the HHP-8s and switching to an all diesel fleet has come up. As for MTA* and MARC's decision, IMO, in a few years, maybe 5 or even 10, whoever is making decisions then will rethink the decision to buy 10 MPI diesels over getting new electric locomotives because of increased diesel fuel costs, slower acceleration with the diesels, and air quality. But MTA placed the order for the MPI diesels, so it is a done deal.

The bottom line is the HHP-8s may be gone from Amtrak and MARC revenue service sooner than many expected when the first ACS-64 units were shipped east.

* MTA in this context means Maryland Transit Administration, not the other much bigger MTA.

 

[Thirdrail7]

So far, 7 units are approved for any BOS train (except 66 and 67) service.

Why except 66 and 67?

They avoid it as a precautionary. You don't have much support during the hours these trains operate. This is not uncommon. When the HHPs were unproven, you had to avoid using them on 66,67,190 and 195/95. Of course, if it is the only game in town (like a few days ago when they slapped the 616 on 67) you cross your fingers and go for it.

Do the HHP-8s still break down constantly? I see them used quite a bit on MARC, so they can't be that bad. I'd imagine that MARC would take the opportunity to snap up the retired HHP-8s to replace their AEM-7s.

Their failure rate is slightly higher than other units but their loss of time unit is significantly higher. The HHP-8s weren't as bad as people made them out to be. They were actually too good for their territory. History may repeat itself with these new units. This summer is almost over, but there were a few stretches of hot weather and the ACSs didn't behave a whole heck of a lot better than the HHP-8s...and they are new.

It will be interesting to see what will happen after a few years of ice storms, fine snowfalls and a prolonged heatwave.

Will they rise up like the AEM-7s or fall victim like the HHP-8s?

 

[neroden]

Their failure rate is slightly higher than other units but their loss of time unit is significantly higher. The HHP-8s weren't as bad as people made them out to be.

One of the lessons of the HHP-8s -- not a new lesson -- is that small classes of equipment are a bad idea. With a large class of HHP-8s, I could imagine all the bugs being worked out, the biggest problems being retrofitted, and stockpiles of spare parts. With a small class, there certainly weren't stockpiles of spare parts, and it was hardly worth retrofitting such a small class in any way...

 

[Agent]

AMTK 620 is reported to be going east on Amtrak #6(30): www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3508413.

 

[Agent]

Here's Amtrak #6(30) earlier today at Ottumwa, Iowa with the newest ACS-64:

http://youtu.be/hfxUhlmVXng

 

[Barciur]

Any news/leaks about when will Keystone service get its ACS on revenue service?

 

[Acela150]

Here's Amtrak #6(30) earlier today at Ottumwa, Iowa with the newest ACS-64:

http://youtu.be/hfxUhlmVXng

Nice video! Seems the engineer likes to make noise...

Any news/leaks about when will Keystone service get its ACS on revenue service?

No. It has to do with compatibility with the cab cars, IINM.

 

[afigg]

According to a post on trainorders, #620 will be heading east today on the Capitol Limited #30 (9/02).

 

[BrianPR3]

Have they figured out 610 yet?

 

[Thirdrail7]

Have they figured out 610 yet?

There is nothing to figure out. It is a known and programmed maneuver. Hopefully it will be online at the end of the month.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Their failure rate is slightly higher than other units but their loss of time unit is significantly higher. The HHP-8s weren't as bad as people made them out to be.

One of the lessons of the HHP-8s -- not a new lesson -- is that small classes of equipment are a bad idea. With a large class of HHP-8s, I could imagine all the bugs being worked out, the biggest problems being retrofitted, and stockpiles of spare parts. With a small class, there certainly weren't stockpiles of spare parts, and it was hardly worth retrofitting such a small class in any way...

I'm not sure I'd say they were a small class of equipment. You forget they share a great deal of components with their high speed cousins. You're actually talking about 55 power units...and that doesn't include MARC.

 

[BrianPR3]

Have they figured out 610 yet?

There is nothing to figure out. It is a known and programmed maneuver. Hopefully it will be online at the end of the month.

Thank god! it's been a while since we heard anything about it

 

[neroden]

I'm not sure I'd say they were a small class of equipment. You forget they share a great deal of components with their high speed cousins. You're actually talking about 55 power units...and that doesn't include MARC.

Mmm. I've heard differing opinions as to how many parts the HHP-8s actually share with the Acelas. Including statements by some people claiming to be in the maintenance department, that even parts which you'd expect to be identical have little fiddly differences and can't be swapped one-for-one.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Have they figured out 610 yet?

There is nothing to figure out. It is a known and programmed maneuver. Hopefully it will be online at the end of the month.

Thank god! it's been a while since we heard anything about it

I don't know if you are familiar with Star Trek , but even if you aren't you should be able to read in between the lines here, ok? The 610 followed the Spock creed: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few....or the one."

I'm not sure I'd say they were a small class of equipment. You forget they share a great deal of components with their high speed cousins. You're actually talking about 55 power units...and that doesn't include MARC.

Mmm. I've heard differing opinions as to how many parts the HHP-8s actually share with the Acelas. Including statements by some people claiming to be in the maintenance department, that even parts which you'd expect to be identical have little fiddly differences and can't be swapped one-for-one.

This is true. However, there are enough parts and by that I mean "big items" that are interchangeable with minor to no modifications. Withour diverting too much from the topic, remember the trouble Amtrak had with Acela sets this winter? It was a few HHP-8s that enabled the Acela sets to return to service by following the Spock creed: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one."

I hope this is clear enough for everyone.

 

[neroden]

Aha. Thanks. Sounds like maybe there weren't as many Acela spare parts as there should have been either....

....this leads me to think that maybe the HHP-8s are going to stay on the property for quite a long time after their "retirement". Maybe until the Acelas are retired.

...also, if the HHP-8 leases require returning the HHP-8s in working condition, Amtrak may *need* to buy out those leases.

Am I reading you right?

 

[jis]

I wonder about the big items comment. It seems to me that many big items as in electric motors and drive electronics cannot be shared between the HHP-8s and Acela power heads because of the inherent significant difference in power ratings and also size. Am I incorrect in surmising that Acela power heads and HHP-8s share neither the motors nor the trucks, or at least significant set of parts in the trucks, and the drive electronics, and the main transformer/rectifier packs?

 

[BrianPR3]

Have they figured out 610 yet?

There is nothing to figure out. It is a known and programmed maneuver. Hopefully it will be online at the end of the month.

Thank god! it's been a while since we heard anything about it

I don't know if you are familiar with Star Trek , but even if you aren't you should be able to read in between the lines here, ok? The 610 followed the Spock creed: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few....or the one."

lol im not a star trek fan, also i only asked cause someone said 610 was being cannibalized for parts till Siemens provided parts

 

[Acela150]

Have they figured out 610 yet?

There is nothing to figure out. It is a known and programmed maneuver. Hopefully it will be online at the end of the month.

Thank god! it's been a while since we heard anything about it

I don't know if you are familiar with Star Trek , but even if you aren't you should be able to read in between the lines here, ok? The 610 followed the Spock creed: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few....or the one."

lol im not a star trek fan, also i only asked cause someone said 610 was being cannibalized for parts till Siemens provided parts

Why in the world would something BRAND SPANKIN' NEW be cannibalized for parts??

 

[BrianPR3]

Have they figured out 610 yet?

There is nothing to figure out. It is a known and programmed maneuver. Hopefully it will be online at the end of the month.

Thank god! it's been a while since we heard anything about it

I don't know if you are familiar with Star Trek , but even if you aren't you should be able to read in between the lines here, ok? The 610 followed the Spock creed: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few....or the one."

lol im not a star trek fan, also i only asked cause someone said 610 was being cannibalized for parts till Siemens provided parts

Why in the world would something BRAND SPANKIN' NEW be cannibalized for parts??

that's what i would like to know too!

read this post and that's where they came about with 610

https://www.facebook.com/groups/7860063780/permalink/10152714318383781/

 

[Acela150]

Considering I happen to know he's an Amtrak Engineer I'm tempted to believe it. But it still doesn't make much sense.

 

[Ryan]

Makes perfect sense to me, the supply of spare parts can't be fully populated yet (nor should it be).

One locomotive in the shop is better than several.

 

[neroden]

Very likely Siemens is planning to manufacture the spare parts last. There would be spare parts for some things which are supplied by subcontractors where a stock is kept at the Siemens factory, but probably not for everything.