ACS-64 Heads Up

[afigg]

Aren't they basically Acela power units on the inside?

So I guess they will be highly sought after for spares?

Amtrak doesn't own them, Bombardier does. I imagine Bombardier wants them back in one piece.

It has been reported that the HHP-8s have to be returned to the lease holder in working order. Which is a understandable clause in the lease. Since Amtrak is obviously not going to exercise the buy-out options on the HHP-8 leases, the need to keep the HHP-8s in at least nominal working order may have accelerated their retirement. Not a good use of limited financial resources to blow out an expensive part on an HHP-8, then have to replace it so the HHP-8 can run under its own power to satisfy the terms of the lease, then retire the HHP-8 shortly afterwards with the locomotive returned to the leasing company, and likely eventually sold for scrap value.
The Early Buy-Out Options of the leases for the Acelas and HHP-8s start to come up in late 2016, with a bunch in the summer of 2017. Don't see why Amtrak would exercise any of them. The Acelas may face the same fate: be sequentially retired as enough new HSR trainsets enter service so they can be returned to the lease holder in lieu of a buy-out to terminate the leases.

 

[jis]

I am almost certain that Bombardier would be quite amenable to a suitable lease extension instead of the buyout. It is not like there are other customers breaking down their doors to get their hands on any of these.

 

[Acela150]

I am almost certain that Bombardier would be quite amenable to a suitable lease extension instead of the buyout. It is not like there are other customers breaking down their doors to get their hands on any of these.

LOL! Well put Jishnu! I don't even know who else would want them..

 

[Agent]

AMTK 600 has been named David L. Gunn after the former Amtrak president: http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2014/11/new-Amtrak-locomotive-honors-past-president (You have to be a subscriber to read the full article, but non-subscribers can still see a photo of the newly-named 600).

 

[Paulus]

Isn't that the one that caught on fire?

 

[jis]

Isn't that the one that caught on fire?

Yes. A fire at the HV Circuit Breaker apparently, though it did cause some damage around it requiring some work to fix it. I suppose this gave the opportunity to put the new name decal on it

 

[neroden]

The Early Buy-Out Options of the leases for the Acelas and HHP-8s start to come up in late 2016, with a bunch in the summer of 2017.

Most of these appear to actually be lease expirations rather than EBOs.

Don't see why Amtrak would exercise any of them.

Amtrak may have to extend the Acela leases as an alternative, due to inability to get Acela IIs in service quick enough. If Bombardier really refuses to cooperate on lease extensions (unlikely), then Amtrak might have to do the buyouts. :-(

 

[afigg]

The Early Buy-Out Options of the leases for the Acelas and HHP-8s start to come up in late 2016, with a bunch in the summer of 2017.

Most of these appear to actually be lease expirations rather than EBOs.

Don't see why Amtrak would exercise any of them.

Amtrak may have to extend the Acela leases as an alternative, due to inability to get Acela IIs in service quick enough. If Bombardier really refuses to cooperate on lease extensions (unlikely), then Amtrak might have to do the buyouts. :-(

No, the FY13 Five Year plan lists the trust closings for the HHP-8s and HS Trainsets in the "Early Buyout Equipment Purchase Options" table. Presumably they were brought with 20 or 25 year leases, so early buy-out options opening 16 or 17 years into the leases makes sense. The only equipment in the end of lease equipment purchase table are 21 AEM-7 rebuilds in FY16 and FY17. What Amtrak does with the AEM-7AC leases, no idea.
However this thread is about the ACS-64; discussion of the fate of the HHP-8s and AEM-7s is close enough to the topic. But Acela lease and fate discussions? Not really on-topic. Better to keep that in a Next Gen HSR or an Acela thread if we are going to discuss it at length.

 

[Acela150]

Isn't that the one that caught on fire?

Yes. A fire at the HV Circuit Breaker apparently, though it did cause some damage around it requiring some work to fix it. I suppose this gave the opportunity to put the new name decal on it

IINM that decal was put on about 2 or 3 weeks ago.. But it could have been longer. Time is going by so quick here it's hard to keep track.

 

[neroden]

No, the FY13 Five Year plan lists the trust closings for the HHP-8s and HS Trainsets in the "Early Buyout Equipment Purchase Options" table. Presumably they were brought with 20 or 25 year leases, so early buy-out options opening 16 or 17 years into the leases makes sense. The only equipment in the end of lease equipment purchase table are 21 AEM-7 rebuilds in FY16 and FY17. What Amtrak does with the AEM-7AC leases, no idea.

Ah, a misreading on my part (I was working from one of the other documents which didn't break them out as clearly and had somewhat vague verbiage). Thank you.

 

[afigg]

It has been a while since there was news about an ACS-64 delivery. According to trainorders, #626 is heading east on the CZ #6 (12/06?). #627 is on CZ #6(12/07).

 

[64]

It has been a while since there was news about an ACS-64 delivery. According to trainorders, #626 is heading east on the CZ #6 (12/06?). #627 is on CZ #6(12/07).

627 on 6(5)

626 on 6(6)

 

[Acela150]

The last one made its way east in late October.

 

[Agent]

Amtrak #6(06) at Dudley, Iowa this morning with AMTK 626. The leader, AMTK 117, has a darker shade of blue on its nose.

http://youtu.be/hJCwfnuXuew

 

[afigg]

#627 has made its way east. Saw it parked in the Ivy City yard at WAS this afternoon.

 

[Agent]

Everyone on the east coast is excited for the new baggage cars, and I'm just watching another ACS-64 go by. AMTK 629 passed through Ottumwa, Iowa on Amtrak #6(18). So, 627 went east the day before 626, but I don't know where 628 is.

 

[64]

628 is.

still at the plant.

 

[afigg]

SEPTA has posted a RFP to purchase 13 electric locomotives plus an option for up to 5 more. The Siemens ACS-64 or a reconfigured variant is an obvious candidate, but 13 + 5 locomotives is presumably a large enough order that Bombardier might bid as well. However, odds have to be good that the Amtrak ACS-64s will have sister units operating on SEPTA in a few years. SEPTA currently has 8 electrics, so 13 is an expansion of their locomotive fleet.

SEPTA's public announcement of the RFP although it is very terse. There are no specifics or attached documents, those are likely available on request only to qualified bidders.

The Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA) is soliciting proposals for the purchase of a Base Order of 13 High Speed Electric Locomotives with Mandatory Options up to five (5) additional Locomotives.

Deadline for Proposals: February 13, 2015 at 4:30 PM

 

[Ryan]

I wish MARC would drop their "all diesel" foolishness and get with the program.

Problem is, it costs them twice as much per mile to run an electric, so it's a no-brainer to ditch them.

 

[jis]

Also their railroad is not completely electrified like SEPTA's is, and SEPTA has a lengthy tunnel with two station stops that most of their trains traverse.

 

[Agent]

If SEPTA goes with Siemens, would they have freight railroads bring the units from California, or pay Amtrak to bring them east like their ACS-64s?

 

[PRR 60]

I wish MARC would drop their "all diesel" foolishness and get with the program.

Problem is, it costs them twice as much per mile to run an electric, so it's a no-brainer to ditch them.

Part of the cost issue is the way Amtrak allocates electric power costs to operators like MARC. Amtrak makes very beneficial (to Amtrak) assumptions concerning power and electric traction system cost per train-mile (or car mile for EMU's), then bills the commuter lines accordingly. It's a take it or leave it deal. Operations like SEPTA and NJT have no choice but to take it, like it or not. MARC has a choice and has elected to leave it.

I'd be curious to know the terms under which Amtrak obtains power from Metro North. I suspect that Amtrak's getting a much better deal from MN than Amtrak offers to SEPTA and NJT. That is typically how it works.

 

[jis]

The NEC Commission will hopefully bring some rationality to this. But I am not holding my breath.

 

[Acela150]

If SEPTA goes with Siemens, would they have freight railroads bring the units from California, or pay Amtrak to bring them east like their ACS-64s?

Problem is Septa is so stupid with their purchasing choices they wouldn't buy from Siemens.. Ask every Septa Conductor and Engineer what they think of the SL V's.. They will not hesitate to speak their minds!

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Its not about stupidity, it about who is lowest bidder for specifications as listed in RFP, they have to go with lowest qualified bidder if they like it or not. sometimes a RFP can be tweaked to favor a prefered bidder but he still has to come in lowest or its not gone fly.