Adirondack Dome Car 2019

[OldCond]

From Discover on Google https://www.timesunion.com/business/article/Amtrak-s-Great-Dome-car-has-been-retired-14402221.php

 

[pennyk]

Here is an article from the Times Union stating that the Dome Car has been retired: https://www.timesunion.com/business/article/Amtrak-s-Great-Dome-car-has-been-retired-14402221.php

Rensselaer

Amtrak's Great Dome car, a regular feature during fall foliage season on the Adirondack between Albany and Montreal, has been retired.

The two-level passenger car with a glassed-in upper level stretching the length of the car was the last of a fleet of six originally built for the Great Northern Railway's Empire Builder between Chicago and Seattle in the mid-1950s.

 

[ScouseAndy]

...is why we can't have nice things.

nothing to do with your government chronically underfunding amtrak for decades then? All just Andersons fault, gottya

 

[crescent-zephyr]

nothing to do with your government chronically underfunding amtrak for decades then? All just Andersons fault, gottya

It sure seems to be Anderson’s decision to end the parlor cars and great dome.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

It sure seems to be Anderson’s decision to end the parlor cars and great dome.

Those need $$$$$$$$$$$ to maintain which Amtrak does not have. I'd rather have the trains w/o those than no trains at all.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Those need $$$$$$$$$$$ to maintain which Amtrak does not have. I'd rather have the trains w/o those than no trains at all.

Amtrak doesn’t have money to maintain equipment? That’s a pretty big problem I wasn’t aware of.

 

[jis]

I suppose one cuts every possible corner to meet the breakeven target of 2021. [emoji849] All non-essential items go bye bye. Haven’t we seen this happen in every industry in pursuit of the bottom line, the entire purpose of the organization be damned sometimes? So what’s new?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Wasn’t the state paying Amtrak for the car? So isn’t Amtrak losing additional money by not using the car?

 

[PRR 60]

Wasn’t the state paying Amtrak for the car? So isn’t Amtrak losing additional money by not using the car?

I believe states pay Amtrak based on a formula in which car usage is a parameter. That value is likely based on overall fleet car costs and does not reflect the actual cost for this one-of-a-kind, 64 year-old relic. I doubt the state payments for using the Super Dome came close to covering Amtrak's costs to keep the car road worthy.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I thought the state paid extra for the dome.... not just paying for an extra car.

 

[Seaboard92]

I mean if the state really wants a dome car for the Adirondack in the fall there are still some options out there. IPH has several Great (ex GN) and Big (ex ATSF) full domes. And the friends of 261 has possibly the best full dome out there. The Pullman Standard Super Dome. And I’m sure both outfits would be willing to provide a car if NYS is willing to pay. Heck you could even take Cedar Rapids and have a Skytop with it.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Now we’re talking!!!!

 

[toddinde]

What about the huge amount of money Amtrak is sitting on and not spending?

Those need $$$$$$$$$$$ to maintain which Amtrak does not have. I'd rather have the trains w/o those than no trains at all.

.

 

[jis]

What about the huge amount of money Amtrak is sitting on and not spending?

.

Would you rather have that huge money used on buying replacement for commercial rolling stock for trains including LD trains, or futzing around with special cars? Afterall they do have to pay for the Amfleet replacement and eventually Superliner replacement orders. Those are not covered by any specific appropriation for them. Comes out of general budget.

 

[Seaboard92]

If people want a dome so much they should just rent one. And think if you sell the tickets you can even make money on it. Call a PV owner and get started today.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

If people want a dome so much they should just rent one. And think if you sell the tickets you can even make money on it. Call a PV owner and get started today.

Isn’t that the answer to full service dining cars as well?

 

[Seaboard92]

Sure why not do it that way. IPH has a 48 seat diner, and Watuga has a 36 seat diner. There aren’t as many diners out there.

 

[jiml]

That would be an interesting variation on the discussion - a private dining car complete with staff for those willing to pay extra. Start with select eastern routes, then if successful rehab a PPC or two for Superliner trains unless there are still some hi-level diners stored somewhere.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

That would be an interesting variation on the discussion - a private dining car complete with staff for those willing to pay extra. Start with select eastern routes, then if successful rehab a PPC or two for Superliner trains unless there are still some hi-level diners stored somewhere.

Been there done that. Grande Luxe Rail Journey and Iowa Pacific as "Pullman Rail Journeys" attempted to do just that. Iowa Pacific was great while it lasted. Riding in an Illinois Central tail car through Memphis TN while sipping on Bailey's served in a real glass by a fully uniformed attendant and then retiring to my Bedroom... all for the price of an Amtrak Roomette!? Would swear it was a dream! ha.

 

[jiml]

Been there done that. Grande Luxe Rail Journey and Iowa Pacific as "Pullman Rail Journeys" attempted to do just that. Iowa Pacific was great while it lasted. Riding in an Illinois Central tail car through Memphis TN while sipping on Bailey's served in a real glass by a fully uniformed attendant and then retiring to my Bedroom... all for the price of an Amtrak Roomette!? Would swear it was a dream! ha.

Definitely aware, but missed the opportunity. The difference is those were pre-booked services with accommodation as well as dining. I took your suggestion above and Seaboard92's follow-up as a thought to "what if a leased dining car was open to all passengers?" - the same way a dome would be. Pick an eastern train with (or about to get) contemporary dining, or better still - the Silver Star. If you're a first class passenger and your dining alternative was contemporary dining or the café car, would you pay a $100 per night on the train for decent food, properly served? Would this be an appropriate amount for breakfast, lunch and dinner for 1 passenger? If dining became "unbundled" from the fare (think airline fees) would this be a starting point for discussion? Would Amtrak lease unconverted dining cars to the operator of such a service to overcome the shortage of available cars? I'm throwing this out for discussion by those more familiar with the cost of such an operation... paging Seaboard92 and others with expertise.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I think the best bet for a service like that would be on a regional train where the state would be willing to pay the bill for the service. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Adirondack get a dome car next year... I'm not sure of the agreement but they were willing to pay Amtrak something for the dome, so why wouldn't they be interested in talking to a private car operator?

But back to your dining car service... what you described sounds a whole lot like outsourcing the dining car operation. There's no way you can charge passengers what it would actually cost to prepare the meals on a long distance train. The math won't add up.

 

[Seaboard92]

I’m not sure you could provide a good product for $100 because most people don’t go end to end. And the milage fee is still the same. So you would have to figure out how to charge for it. I think it would do better on the palmetto, and short haul routes.

Between car upkeep, milage, switching, and staffing it would cost a ton. Of course that doesn’t even include food.

 

[jis]

To answer jiml's question, in general I would not be willing to pay $100+ per day just to get served food on fancy tableware with fancy garcons when I am just trying to get from point A to point B, and am not on a traincation. When food was unbundled I seldom had more than one meal per day in the Diner, if that. Call me cheap, but I'd rather spend that money on something else that I consider more worthwhile.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

when I am just trying to get from point A to point B

Lots of domestic air travelers choose to pay quite a bit for First Class when they are just trying to get from Point A to Point B. Even on super short flights. While a good portion of that is paying to be comfortable vs. the tiny airline seats part of that is for the extra services as well. I'm not sure how many Amtrak passengers would want to pay more for Business Class / Sleepers if they got better service and fancier meals but it's certainly a question to ponder.

I agree with Seaboard.. the lines like the Palmetto are really a better place to test the waters than the LD trains.

 

[Seaboard92]

I’ve always thought the Palmetto was ripe for experiments. It is consistently a strong train from the financial side. And on the food side going north you have late breakfast, lunch, and dinner. On the southbound breakfast, lunch, and potentially a dinner as well. I think it would be a good test case.

The Carolinian also might be an interesting test case but not as much. I would even say one of those Virginia Regionals could also make an interesting experiment. Especially if all day dining was tried.