Amenities Being Eliminated from Long Distance Routes

[SarahZ]

IMHO, just because one route offers a different experience than another one does, it should not mean that all routes should be denigrated to the lowest common denominator. Now, if we are talking about UPgrading all routes to be like the CS or the (current) EB, I bet we would all be in agreement! But, sadly, that is not in the cards.

That's not why they're "downgrading", though. Amtrak is losing money, so they're trying to cut extras. It's not because one train is better than another.

 

[tonys96]

To be fair, those hotels with the cookies and such also cost more than other hotels.

So, and I mean this nicely, are you advocating that Amtrak "First Class" be equivalent to Motel 6?

Uh, the same reason any other question is asked....to get an answer. I never have preconceived notions of what an answer to a question about a personal opinion might be.

There is such thing as a question that isn't really a question (i.e. a sentence that is technically in the form of a question, but with an implied answer contained within). If you didn't have preconceived notions about what she was thinking, you wouldn't have specifically mentioned Motel 6.

Thanks for your input, as far off base as it is.

 

[Trogdor]

Glad you think you can read minds. Would be a great parlor trick.

Not a parlor trick. It's basically what a preconceived notion is. You already chose an answer (i.e. that she was advocating Amtrak become like Motel 6) before actually knowing the answer, then fed it back in the form of a question to see if your idea was correct.

 

[TinCan782]

especially as the wine tasting is listed as a perk for the cs in the new timetable.

And the wine-and-cheese tasting is listed as a perk of the LSL in the current timetable, as well.

Listen up, Amtrak. THIS matters. You can take away an amenity, but not while you're still advertising it.

That gets people mad; they feel cheated because they've been promised something and it wasn't delivered.

This is a very basic communications issue, and an easy enough one to fix (issue a new timetable).

And a recent post on Facebook this afternoon...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152165111489014&set=a.278157009013.143973.9411224013&type=1&theater&notif_t=photo_reply

 

[Old MM]

IMHO, just because one route offers a different experience than another one does, it should not mean that all routes should be denigrated to the lowest common denominator. Now, if we are talking about UPgrading all routes to be like the CS or the (current) EB, I bet we would all be in agreement! But, sadly, that is not in the cards.

That's not why they're "downgrading", though. Amtrak is losing money, so they're trying to cut extras. It's not because one train is better than another.

The thing that may be a little worrisome about that, Sarah, is that trimming some extras doesn't really address the bigger picture. That's the PR aspect of it. I hope with all my heart, what little of that I have, that you are correct and they are just trying to save a few bucks with the goal of supporting Amtrak.

 

[SarahZ]

And a recent post on Facebook this afternoon...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152165111489014&set=a.278157009013.143973.9411224013&type=1&theater&notif_t=photo_reply

I saw that. Even though everyone is shrieking "false" over it, they're forgetting you can still order wine in the dining car. That shows a table, no flower (off-frame), with the plasticware, and the half-bottle of wine that's on the current dining car menus. Nothing about that picture is untrue (except for the old style of car, obviously). Other than the car looking different, that photo looks a lot like our table during a recent trip. The wine is super overpriced, so we didn't order it again. Now we bring our own.

 

[SarahZ]

IMHO, just because one route offers a different experience than another one does, it should not mean that all routes should be denigrated to the lowest common denominator. Now, if we are talking about UPgrading all routes to be like the CS or the (current) EB, I bet we would all be in agreement! But, sadly, that is not in the cards.

That's not why they're "downgrading", though. Amtrak is losing money, so they're trying to cut extras. It's not because one train is better than another.

The thing that may be a little worrisome about that, Sarah, is that trimming some extras doesn't really address the bigger picture. That's the PR aspect of it. I hope with all my heart, what little of that I have, that you are correct and they are just trying to save a few bucks with the goal of supporting Amtrak.

Yeah, I'm not under any delusion that this will fix things completely. It's just a start. Until Amtrak gets more funding and more support, there's only so much they can do. So, for now, I'd rather see little things go than have them do service cuts and lay-offs.

 

[Ryan]

Glad you think you can read minds. Would be a great parlor trick.

Not a parlor trick. It's basically what a preconceived notion is. You already chose an answer (i.e. that she was advocating Amtrak become like Motel 6) before actually knowing the answer, then fed it back in the form of a question to see if your idea was correct.

And then plays hurt when called on it. Cute.
Nice catch on the attempted edit, too.

 

[penfrydd]

Well, I'm in the camp that says that, if you've purchased a sleeper ticket, based upon all the "amenities" advertised, that you'll be rather disappointed to not receive them. Next July will be a big trip for my wife and myself (her first on Amtrak). We were looking forward to what seemed like "first-class" service. Granted, a nice bed and shower will do (as long as meals are still included), but that does not take away from the concept of receiving what you have already paid for!!!

 

[tonys96]

IMHO, just because one route offers a different experience than another one does, it should not mean that all routes should be denigrated to the lowest common denominator. Now, if we are talking about UPgrading all routes to be like the CS or the (current) EB, I bet we would all be in agreement! But, sadly, that is not in the cards.

That's not why they're "downgrading", though. Amtrak is losing money, so they're trying to cut extras. It's not because one train is better than another.

One person's "extra" might be anothers sole reason to choose Amtrak over the myriad other options out there. Many take the train as an integral part of the journey experience, not just as a way to get from here to there. Rooms ain't cheap.

I can see how those who just want to get from "A" to "B" with a place to lie flat might not care about these things on certain routes. But it does make me wonder why anyone would want to deny them to those who do partake of them, if there is no reduction in cost for doing so. I also can see how the "extras" could be the selling point that tips the scale toward taking the train instead of the Dog or Megabus.

Two sides to every coin.

Anyhoo.......some routes have great scenery, some have a PPC, some have W&C, some have Trails & Rails, some have Miss Polly, some are Superliner, some are Viewliner, some have free shampoo, they all are different from each other and singularly unique. I like that. To all be cookie cutter, same as each other would be a terrible thing, IMHO.

 

[tonys96]

Glad you think you can read minds. Would be a great parlor trick.

Not a parlor trick. It's basically what a preconceived notion is. You already chose an answer (i.e. that she was advocating Amtrak become like Motel 6) before actually knowing the answer, then fed it back in the form of a question to see if your idea was correct.

You seem to have a preconceived notion that I was doing this. It is not a correct notion.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

IMHO, just because one route offers a different experience than another one does, it should not mean that all routes should be denigrated to the lowest common denominator. Now, if we are talking about UPgrading all routes to be like the CS or the (current) EB, I bet we would all be in agreement! But, sadly, that is not in the cards.

That's not why they're "downgrading", though. Amtrak is losing money, so they're trying to cut extras. It's not because one train is better than another.

You keep saying that but the honest truth is that it is simply not possible for Amtrak to slash and cut themselves into the black. If that's not possible then where will the cutting stop now that we've started it up again?

 

[Ryan]

I think of it this way - Amtrak cutting these things solves their budget problem about as much as cutting Amtrak would solve the federal budget problem.

That is to say, not at all, and the cure is probably worse than the disease.

 

[SarahZ]

IMHO, just because one route offers a different experience than another one does, it should not mean that all routes should be denigrated to the lowest common denominator. Now, if we are talking about UPgrading all routes to be like the CS or the (current) EB, I bet we would all be in agreement! But, sadly, that is not in the cards.

That's not why they're "downgrading", though. Amtrak is losing money, so they're trying to cut extras. It's not because one train is better than another.

You keep saying that but the honest truth is that it is simply not possible for Amtrak to slash and cut themselves into the black. If that's not possible then where will the cutting stop now that we've started it up again?

No, my point was that they weren't cutting those extras simply because the EB/CS have them and the other trains don't. I thought maybe MM misunderstood what I was saying when replying to Tony about the hotel analogy.

 

[SarahZ]

I think of it this way - Amtrak cutting these things solves their budget problem about as much as cutting Amtrak would solve the federal budget problem.

That is to say, not at all, and the cure is probably worse than the disease.

I agree. I'm not saying it's the be all, end all solution. Not one bit. I hate to think of the actual solution. I just don't think it makes financial sense to keep offering these things when they're in the red, so I understand why they're doing it. I know it's probably just prolonging the inevitable, so it IS sad, in that sense.

A lot of people are misunderstanding me, so obviously I'm failing to communicate properly. Sorry.

 

[Old MM]

Two sides to every coin.

Anyhoo.......some routes have great scenery, some have a PPC, some have W&C, some have Trails & Rails, some have Miss Polly, some are Superliner, some are Viewliner, some have free shampoo, they all are different from each other and singularly unique. I like that. To all be cookie cutter, same as each other would be a terrible thing, IMHO.

------------

Tony..... SO with you on that!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I think of it this way - Amtrak cutting these things solves their budget problem about as much as cutting Amtrak would solve the federal budget problem.

That is to say, not at all, and the cure is probably worse than the disease.

I agree. I'm not saying it's the be all, end all solution. Not one bit. I hate to think of the actual solution. I just don't think it makes financial sense to keep offering these things when they're in the red, so I understand why they're doing it. I know it's probably just prolonging the inevitable, so it IS sad, in that sense. A lot of people are misunderstanding me, so obviously I'm failing to communicate properly. Sorry.

If you don't think it makes financial sense to continue offering services that keep Amtrak in the red then you've basically written off most of the national network. I'm sorry you'd hate to think of where these John Mica style "solutions" would actually end up but that's the real issue here, not where it starts.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Next time I'm booked on a train with Diner I guess I could run down to the Dollar Store or Hobby Lobby and pick up a few inexpensive plastic flowers in vases and leave them in the Diner. If enough of us did that we could repopulate all the Diners system wide :unsure: ^_^

Ya know the next time Iam on the CS Ill bring some from the dollar tree.....

this is starting to sound like a monty python skit .

 

[SarahZ]

Anyhoo.......some routes have great scenery, some have a PPC, some have W&C, some have Trails & Rails, some have Miss Polly, some are Superliner, some are Viewliner, some have free shampoo, they all are different from each other and singularly unique. I like that. To all be cookie cutter, same as each other would be a terrible thing, IMHO.

Nobody is saying they should be cookie cutter. I'm sure as heck not. Of course they're going to have different scenery, different crews, and different cars. I'm talking about shower caps and carnations, not Viewliner vs. Superliner.

 

[SarahZ]

I think of it this way - Amtrak cutting these things solves their budget problem about as much as cutting Amtrak would solve the federal budget problem.

That is to say, not at all, and the cure is probably worse than the disease.

I agree. I'm not saying it's the be all, end all solution. Not one bit. I hate to think of the actual solution. I just don't think it makes financial sense to keep offering these things when they're in the red, so I understand why they're doing it. I know it's probably just prolonging the inevitable, so it IS sad, in that sense. A lot of people are misunderstanding me, so obviously I'm failing to communicate properly. Sorry.

If you don't think it makes financial sense to continue offering services that keep Amtrak in the red then you've basically written off most of the national network. I'm sorry you'd hate to think of where these John Mica style "solutions" would actually end up but that's the real issue here, not where it starts.

Read the bold. That's the crux of my comment. I'm aware of the real issue, and just because I "hate to think of something" doesn't mean I'm not completely and fully aware of it. In fact, when I say that, it means I'm crystal clear on the fact and trying to put it out of my mind because it's too depressing. There's a difference between blissfully ignorant, which I'm not, and trying to remain optimistic, which I am.

 

[WICT106]

A couple of thoughts here:

Most of my train trips have been aboard the Capitol Ltd and the Silver Meteor, both which offer only the newspapers as an amenity. Watching numerous first time train travelers, they are more concerned with on time arrivals and departures ( from every single station in the system ! ) as well as being treated with courtesy and good manners. Those two factors, and Amtrak's chronic struggles with them, have had more bearings upon if a traveler takes the train again, or if they say, "never again." Newspapers, or wine and cheese tastings ? I won't miss them.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

If newspapers are cut out I would hope paper machines or paper sellers are conveniently set up at the major morning stops so those of us who enjoy a morning paper can at least buy one.

 

[tonys96]

I think of it this way - Amtrak cutting these things solves their budget problem about as much as cutting Amtrak would solve the federal budget problem.

That is to say, not at all, and the cure is probably worse than the disease.

I agree. I'm not saying it's the be all, end all solution. Not one bit. I hate to think of the actual solution. I just don't think it makes financial sense to keep offering these things when they're in the red, so I understand why they're doing it. I know it's probably just prolonging the inevitable, so it IS sad, in that sense. A lot of people are misunderstanding me, so obviously I'm failing to communicate properly. Sorry.

If you don't think it makes financial sense to continue offering services that keep Amtrak in the red then you've basically written off most of the national network. I'm sorry you'd hate to think of where these John Mica style "solutions" would actually end up but that's the real issue here, not where it starts.

Read the bold. That's the crux of my comment. I'm aware of the real issue, and just because I "hate to think of something" doesn't mean I'm not completely and fully aware of it. In fact, when I say that, it means I'm crystal clear on the fact and trying to put it out of my mind because it's too depressing. There's a difference between blissfully ignorant, which I'm not, and trying to remain optimistic, which I am.

Sarah, I can see where you are coming from. I do not agree with all of it, but see what you are trying to convey, I think. I hope we can disagree agreeably.

I just hate to see the nickel and diming of small "extras" begin, these "extras" are strictly in the eye of the beholder, and this seems to me being a case of what my daddy used to call..."bending over a dollar to pick up a dime." Maybe the way to cut the deficit at Amtrak would be to invest in better OTP, employee training, and perhaps even more "extras" (at a cost) in order to increase revenue, instead of this small cost reduction that cuts back on the customer's travel experience on a very few routes.

Have a great evening, and I apologize if I offended you in any way tonight. Good luck with your studies.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Several posters have mentioned that Amtrak car attendants are going to have a hard time explaining this to people. While I agree, I think Amtrak (unofficially, of course) could use this situation to its advantage.

Customer: "Hey, what happened the shampoo?"

SCA: "I'm sorry sir/ma'am, but we have been forced to get rid of it."

Customer: "Why?"

SCA: "We are under a lot of pressure from Congress to cut costs."

Customer: "Cut costs? That shampoo only costs nickel!"

SCA: "You are correct, sir, the amount of money we're saving is negligible."

Customer: "Then why bother?"

SCA: "Again, sir, we're responsible to Congress for our funding, and unfortunately our Congress is composed of illiterate monkeys, raving lunatics, and slime mold. They won't let us run this business decently, and have an aneurysm whenever they see a vase of flowers on a table. They interfere in the most minute aspects of our business whenever they think it will make them look good in the polls."

Customer: "That's ridiculous! I want the name of your manager, I want to file a complaint!"

SCA: Certainly, sir. But while you're at it, you may want to complain to the actual imbeciles in Congress who force such things upon us. In particular, I think you should complain to your local congresscritter and senator. And while you're at it, you might as well write a letter to the particular reprobate who always seems to birth the largest cow over Amtrak minutiae, Rep. John Mica. He can be reached at 2187 Rayburn House Office Building Washington, DC 20515."

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Funny hypothetical.

Although unless I am mistaken Amtrak is specifically barred from soliciting support as part of their charter.

It's one big bureaucratic clusterfork where sensible people are silenced so that clueless blowhards can dictate policy.